Jan '07 part 3: Final score - 69 days, 28 boys, 21 girls weighing over 26 stone in total (thats over THREE TIMES Kate Moss's body weight!)

[2Happy]

And huge respect to EaH, without whose efforts we never would have had a list

(And yes, I am one of those sad people who finds things like temperature sensors in cars really interesting. Nerd.)

Carrotcake - that all sounds so lovely, what a fab morning.

Just brought some frogspawn from our pond into the house as the forecast for weekend is for freezing weather. Think I've gone a bit mad !

Champagne breakfast brilliant! We should all hint at that for Sunday morning. Can't wait to hear how attentive all the DP and DH's have been

Diarrhoea. Diarrhoea.
some people think it's funny but it's really very runny. Diarrhoea. Diarrhoea.
Think I can spell it now - thanks carrotcake

Lizz - you are not alone in letting them cry! Although, having read the Baby Whisperer I am trying to let him cry before I stick his dummy so I can understand his different cries. There is some good stuff in that book although some I will be ignoring (no bouncy chair - WTF????). He is just a pain as he will not nap in his cot yet fell asleep on me this morning for an hour so I know he is knackered. Little sod

Carrotcake - Ahhhhhh, that makes me feel all warm and fluffy. Getting married is the best What is your song?

Kat - LOL at you bringing frogspawn in - it'll be fine in the pond you soppy git

Jodie - thanks for the link although that site totally contradicts Dr Ferber AND the Baby Whisperer....oh it's so hard to know what to do!!

Ugh - KatwKits - you poor thing, mastitis is evil. Hope it clears up soon. Congratulations on going to an NCT group. Apart from my sister, I've not heard any positive stories about them. But I do feel like I'm stuck in an ivory tower not talking to anyone else all day!

Wilkie - havent gotten as far as where she says no to bouncy chairs. LO lives in his, oops. I have failed at the baby whisperer routine too!
My LO has just given me 10 mins of adorable giggles, proper laughs. I am feeling very soppy and may cry any moment, its sooooooo cute!

Arghh! LO is so tired, he has been yawning and cranky for a while so have tried putting him in his cot for a nap and he has absolutely bawled for 20 mins. I have stayed with him gently shushing and patting but he just screams and screams. Thing is, I know if I bring him down he will fall asleep on me and I DESPERATELY want to break the habit before he is too old.

DH is up there trying to settle him at the moment - what should I do??? Do you think he will ever learn to settle for naps????

Have to say Wilkie, I read the BabyWhisperer for DS1 and did the shh pat for him. Worked like a dream for him at night and he slept really well, but in the day-nothing.I used to keep him downstairs in the day and let him sleep in either his carrycot or the bouncy chair (a babywhisperer no no, I know!). He has never napped well though so maybe just him.

I have been doing it for Ruth and she has gone from it taking about 1 1/2 hours to settle to just 15-20 mins so worth persevering with it IMHO.

Carrotcake that sound lovely. We went for a meal in a Loch Fyne restaurant while I was preg and it was lovely, althoug there was loads I could not eat. Mmmmm. Congratulations too.

BTW these are the Baby Sign classes I went to and I would definately recomend them.

Kat - thanks, it's so hard being a mother and knowing the right thing to do. Hope the mastitis goes soon, I had that in the first weeks and it was agony.

Carrot - I thought the link was interesting too, makes a lot of sense.

Wilkie - Dr ferber doesn't even stand by his former beliefs anymore about letting babies cry, he went back on them a little while ago as he realised he was wrong. I really don't think that babies should be left to cry at this age, they're so

young and it's the only way they can communicate with us. It won't become a bad habit letting lo sleep on you, I've always done that and I have 2 good sleepers and Ethan is getting better now too. He fell asleep on me and is now in

our bed still asleep after I put him down. It won't last long this period it really won't. Ethan naps in the day but usually gets woken by one of the other children, he naps downstairs though with us either being held or in his big bouncy

chair which lays flat. I just go with what he wants basically and find it much easier. Anyway, what you decide to follow is entirely up to you but the Dr Sears site makes so much sense to me in what he says about babies and how they work. I have the attachment parenting book by him and it's great. Him and his wife have 8 children!

Rgee - check if your health visitor runs baby massage as we've got one session left on ours and its been really good for meeting other mums in a small group. I've met some really nice people who all live locally cos organised by HV.

I've also been going to a postnatal group organised by HV for first time mums that I've found really helpful. Starting a swimming course at the end of the month too.

Ellen needed some calpol last night and it calmed her down, even got 2 four hour stretches of sleep last night for the first time! Had to put hydracortisone cream on her armpitds today though and she screamed and screamed again....I hate it

I'm going back to work hopefully 3 days a week mid July, wrote my letter to work this week.

My parents have been over today so had a lovely time.

When can you start to take them swimming? J had his jabs on Monday and for some readon I seem to think they can start swimming after they've had the first lot? Am I right?

Jodie - Dr Ferber has changed his opinion that CC shouldn't be used under 1 year old. My sis has just used it with her twins and it worked a treat and they are now sleeping through but they are 14 months - think J is a little young to understand. Having said that - we ended up shush patting for half an hour with him absolutely howling in a right state and I ended up having to bring him downstairs and cuddle him as I felt like a really mean mummy. Sometimes I think it is easier to let them cry in a room on their own for 5 mins and come downstairs to get away!!

I posted a thread earlier in the sleep topic as J ends up cold in the night because he won't go in a gro bag and he kicks his blankets off. I am thinking of buying a fleece bodysuit to put over his sleepsuit at night to keep him warm but I'm worried he will overheat.

God..................this baby malarky is so hard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where are you all??????? Don't tell me you have lives on a Friday night??? (or all you watching Comic Relief and crying?)

Hiya. A life? Go out on a Friday night? i don't think so! I'm actually completely knackered today so will be doing LOs dream feed a little early tonight and going to bed very shortly. Still haven't decided whether its a good idea to change his nappy at this dream feed or not. Its obviously quiker and asier not to, but then he's going about 12 hours with no nappy change (as I'm certainly not doing one in the middle of the night unless there's a real emergency!). Is 12 hours really to much to let the go without changing?? It's always absolutly soaking and weighs a ton in the morning!!

Wilkie freddie's not great at napping in the daytime either. I think its because his nighttimes are quite structured - we do the same thing every night - but during the day i just let him sleep whenever he wants. I've tried getting him to nap at certain times but its hard because sometimes it clashes wth having to going out somewhere or people coming over or something else going on. What he often does though, which is really annoying, is stay awake all afternoon and then get really tired and cranky at about 5-6pm, exactly when he should be wide awake and tiring himself out befoe bed!! I know it's my fault he does this though - he doesn't know any better, poor little guy.

Do you swaddle J wilkie? I still tie Freddie up pretty tight in one of those cellular blankets so he can't get his arms and hands out. This, on top of a vest and sleepsuit, seems to keep him about the right temperature atnight. He does really stuggle to get out sometimes but i tuck the edge down the sides on the mattress in his moses basket so its pretty hard for him to escape. I know if he has his arms free his hands go all over his face and head and he just gets fustrated and ends up hitting himself. He's ALWAYS poking himself in the eyes!!

It is hard work isn't it? Also, idon't think any of the people i've read - baby whisperer, dr sears, or anyone else - have been completely right. It's interesting to read them, but you've got to find our own way. I never really leave freddie to cry and the shhh pat thing dosn't really work for us. I know that if i pick freddie up he'll calm down instantly and go back down within a minute or 2 half-asleep and then fall properly asleep himself.

Oh forgot to say carrotcake congrats on the wedding and your day sounded completely lovely!!

Us have a life Wilkie! Ha!

R goes 12 hours without a nappy change most nights Shimmer but she doesnt have a feed normally from 6.30-6.30am or 7am (apart from last night!!!). Think you have to change the nappy more if you feed more in the night. If it is not leaking and the gel is not coming out and lo is not worried about it then I would say it is ok.

I use washables in the day but havent plucked up the courage to use them at night for R. It is silly really as DS1 has them at night and he wees waaaaay more than R and they dont leak.

Shimmer - your routine sounds just like ours. J is very structured with bath and bedtime so think I will just chill and let him nap wherever whenever. But, like you, he wears himself out and then wants to sleep about an hour before bedtime so I end up having to tickle his feet to keep him awake which does NOT go down well with the little man!

I personally change J's nappy at each feed, even in the night. Have got it down to an art form though so it only takes two mins with minimum fuss. I don't speak or smile at him during the night, just give him a kiss when I pick him out of the cot.

Have dropped the '50' from my name so am just Wilkie now in case you noticed

Thanks everyone. Wilkie, we've never really had a song but while I was pregnant I kept hearing (and loving) that Gary Jules 'mad world' on the xbox advert, and as neither of us had ever seen Donnie Darko I didn't know what it was. Jon found out and then couldn't find the cd in town and, wait for it, bought me an ipod so he could download it and give it to me to listen to christmas day! I cried and cried, but then, I only really cry when I'm pregnant

I told hime he was daft and he could have got it on amazon for 8.99!! Quite romantic though. It's just such a complete contrast to this time last year. When I found out I was pregnant I was only halfway through my masters degree, jon's mum had just died of cancer, and our relationship was in tatters really. He couldn't cope with the thought of another child, and I knew if I was pregnant I was having another baby and maybe we'd split up. Somehow, though, we got through it, I finished the MA and slowly (it was hard work) we seemed to get on better.

I actually paid for a doula as I didn't know how we'd be at the birth but when it came to it I didn't want her there. Jon was amazing and it really feels like LO was meant to be, things are more relaxed than they've ever been and we've lived together 11 years in June!

Irritatingly, because of this notice thing, we might not be able to do it before we go to Yorkshire on the 7th, so we thought about driving further north to gretna, in a kind of ironic, so tacky it's good kind of way. Shame Kerry katona did it last week though!! Maybe we'll have to have the honeymoon before the wedding, and carry on doing things the wrong way round...

Sorry, just realised that was an epic answer to 'what is your song'

I had a foul night's sleep. Am I the only one who had LO in the bed? I hate mother and toddler groups as well btw, have never been to them with any of mine. I did go to pre school music when they were a bit bigger but even that was a bit excruciating at times. I can't sing.

Morning was going to post yesterday but felt so ill I ended up going to my mums as kept feeling dizzy and couldnt focus think it was the antibiotics gave me for the throat infection so I have stopped taking them on advice on NHS direct.

DH ordered a chinese last night but ended up falling asleep at 7 and then wnet up to bed at 9 and slept till 6 this morning so dh had to do the dreamfeed and the night feed but am feeling better today.

Wilkie I used to use those fleece sleepsuits for Ellie and she was fine used to have vest, cotton sleepsuit and then fleece suit when it want as cold used to just put vest and fleece sleepsuit.

Carrotcake wedding plans sound lovely and you'll have to post some pics

I am just about to put a new picture of my profile of Hattie in her christeing gown as tried it on her yesterday to check it fitted

poo there must be a tech error as keep getting a funny message when I try to load the pic will try again later

dragonhart at Ruth's sleeping !!!!

Hi, how's everyone?

We've just had the messiest nappy change ever!! he did four poos and a wee on the change mat. The last of which was like bubbles coming out of his bottom, it was really foamy, has anyone else had this, is it normal?!?!?

Wilkie, I try and follow the baby whisperer too, but not very strictly and DS sleeps fine at night but isn't too good at daytime naps. I have a swaddleme swaddling blanket and it is only if I put him in that and put him in his bed upstairs that we get more than half an hour at a time during the day.

Can you give me some advice on nappy changes as it takes me ages and he always wees everywhere, so if i do change him in the night he is always wide awake by the end of it!

Shimmer, I avoid changing DS's nappy during the night unles I can smell or have heard him having a poo. The nappy is really heavy in the morning, but he obviously can't feel it.

EAH, I'm planning on taking DS to baby swimming classes. They say you can take them before they are immunised, but I think I'll wait till after.

carrotcake, your wedding plans sound lovely, so romantic!!

EAH - did you also put a blanket over Ellie or just the fleece sleepsuit. Been to Matalan to buy one.

Trixy - I have a 'set' routine at night with nappy changes. When he wakes up, first thing I do is go get a bottle and put it in the bottle warmer on the landing outside his room, then I lift him out the cot, kiss him and put him on change mat. Change nappy, don't wipe if it's just a wet one, redress him and then by that time the bottle is ready. Feed him and put back down. Takes about 20 mins in total.

Good tip for nappy changes if he wees - buy a couple of cheap hand towels (just bought some more from Matalan, their value range are £2 each). Always keep one on the change mat so then when you are changing the wee soaks into the towel rather than running up their back and soaking their vest and clothes. Then you can just chuck the towel in the wash and replace with a fresh one. I have 6 wee towels in total as I put them under him when he's having 'naked time' under his play gym. Hope this helps!!

As for foamy poo, not sure. Last time Jacob had that was when he had diahorrea after being in hospital.

Why has my profile disappeared after changing my name??????

Morning. Erm...afternoon!

EAH - hope you feel better soon.

Like Dragonhart, I only change lo nappy at the 2.30 feed if it's dirty. She normally goes 7pm - 6am without a change.

Just added more photos to my profile if you want to check out my cutie. Wilkie, bit strange for your profile to vanish.