June 2013 - the terrible twos aren't so terrible

[Biscuitswithtea]

Here goes with a new thread!

The SN is a separate thing - from what I gather they will have a different policy and have to make provision according to that.

It's awful if your child is affected but I can understand why schools have that policy for children without special needs. DD once told us that a grandparent threw her down the stairs (we were there, but obviously wouldn't have believed her even if we hadn't been!)! However I guess it would only take a young child to phrase something in the wrong way and it could cause trouble for teachers. The teacher we know (from a different area) also said that she wasn't allowed to hug them if they needed comforting, for the same reason I guess. It is sad that it's like that though.

Ours is a sought after school/ nursery and we have no issues with them at all, they're great with the children (plus the headteacher is always available and very hands on too - you often see him around, interacting with the children and he was great with us when we mentioned our concerns about DD missing her nap). The nursery sessions are only 2 1/2 hrs so I wouldn't expect them to be there to help with toilet training. DS and I get to go and have fun at the school with DD during an upcoming session - can't wait!

Haven't even heard if we've got into reception yet and now I'm already worrying about secondary school! Have heard that a number of people in catchment didn't get into the local one, or even any of the others in nearby areas! Again, we're only a short walk away so should be fine, but still! I really shouldn't be thinking about this now, though time is flying!

I guess they're not trained for that. The teacher at ours is an actual teacher (she used to teach older children).

Ours has 1 to 5 kids, I think. But will only give prescribed medication. They don't want to risk giving too much Calpol etc, so wouldn't just administer that.

They're very caring and lovely though. We know that they genuinely love our kids and want the best for them.

But at 3 SN might not be diagnosed yet. That's why they aren't allowed to discriminate.

Ours are allowed to hug kids too. And I'm glad they can as if they're upset they need a hug!

Just looking up ratios as DD's class is slightly larger since the Jan intake. Apparently they're different if there's a qualified teacher: 1:13 is the figure that seems to crop up in a few places (though I haven't searched for anything that's both recent and official, plus things here are different for various things).

I've no idea if ours are allowed to hug!

I'm sure if it was a regular thing for a particular child they'd set up meetings, look into it and work out a solution.

I have found this thoroughly depressing. Not allowed to hug, pressure to attend when ill, restrictions on medicine and limitations on assisting a child when they've had an accident. At three years old. They are still tiny children. I'm not a Mother Earth type in the slightest but there is just no way I could leave mine somewhere like that. And I am generally keen to dump them anywhere I can if it buys me some time. I am now very grateful for my nursery and it's warm caring nature and tiny ratio of adults to children. I guess at 1300 quid a month I get what I pay for, but I really had no idea what went on outside until today.

Joe's at a school nursery. It's full of hugging. They'll give Calpol if needed (we signed a release agreeing to it), and they help any boy with toiletting up until such time as they can do it independently.

They are still babies at 3 and 4, albeit ones with an inflated sense of independence! They need support and promotion of independence within a culture of of care.

I am ex-child protection, career-wise, and my experience is any nursery that isn't happy to hug your kids, or change them, is being far too risk averse and consequently not always as holistic in their understanding of child development and needs as might be considered ideal.

The not being allowed to hug wasn't nursery children - the primary school teacher teaches slightly older children (elsewhere).

I think it's fair enough. Ours is warm and caring, they're lovely! Will be very happy for DS to attend too and feel confident he'll love it there! We knew the score before we started re what they expect and with the short sessions most people aren't using it primarily as a childcare setting but to prepare them for the school environment. They'd call if they thought there were issues - and do if children really aren't well enough to be there - most would have someone nearby.

For all that our nursery encourages/expects a certain level of independence, they absolutely support and take in their stride those who need extra care (eg toileting) They may need a reminder that DS won't necessarily tell them if he needs a poo, or if he had an accident but there are a lot of children and recent staff changes.

They are very huggy with the children and each child has a stash of calpol sachets in their bag in case of unexpected illness. They cope well with low grade poorly children and only ask for them to be collected if they require prolonged 1-1 care (d&v apart, of course). Giving calpol doesn't necessarily mean child has to go home.

Our nursery isn't perfect (not sure any are!) but it's pretty good in the main and ds is happy and feels secure.

Yes, I've only known ours ask for them to be collected for sickness bugs. You can go in and give Calpol and then leave them again.

When did teaching assistants appear, anyway? They didn't exist in my primary school! There was one teacher for each class and that was it! You might have had the odd work experience student for a couple of weeks (I did it a couple of times) but that was it!

Teaching assistants probably didn't exist until class sizes crept up towards 30....

Yeah, that must be it (though I can't remember my classes being that small - must dig out a photo and check).

School nursery here and they help with going to the loo as required and understand that 3 year olds can and will have toilet accidents. They also love hugs and there is no obligation to attend - its not school! We do need to let them know if K won't be in that day, of course.

What do you mean that they need two members of staff to take a child to the toilet due to safeguarding? Aren't all staff fully checked through Disclosures (or whatever the current thing is)??

That's not our nursery - that's on the document I linked to above for the random school that came up when I did a quick search on the subject (as is much of the stuff I've mentioned!). I haven't read it thoroughly, just glanced through but I think it explains that school's policy pretty thoroughly and I'm just assuming that other schools might be similar.

I haven't seen an official policy for ours (have had no need) other than being told that they should be toilet trained before starting (by nursery and HV) but that they are happy to help with odd accidents (from what I've gathered it seems that the children wipe themselves and then they help them change clothes if required. Though it could be that if a child says they've wiped themselves properly they just don't check if it's been done properly and that they would help if a child asked - I have no idea on exact details as DD has never had an accident there and I've had no reason to ask).

Um lily has forest school today and they were meant to be making fire. DH has just seen a fire engine drive past with lights and sirens on. He's pretty certain it went to the farm and not to where the kids are....... Pretty sure!

Love forest school day though - she comes back covered head to toe in mud, absolutely shattered but has clearly had a whale of a time

Ha! apparently the fire engine was for the nursery. The firefighters were pissed off they'd been called by some concerned bystander because the kids fire was totally fine and under control

Haha, talk of mud reminds me of bean saying that DD's coat would get ruined. It turns out that DD hates mess and muck as much at nursery as she does at home so we've been ok on that front. Not a fan of the mud kitchen so they let her 'wash up' instead. The only time she's needed to get changed was a water fun day where they were hosed and she ended up drenched. We're getting involved in a messy day next week which should be fun (for me and DS at least - will watch DD with interest!)!

So on the toilet front she has now not managed to do a single wee on the loo for nearly a week. Major regression. Walks around in sodden underwear not saying a word. My sofa is disgusting. She says she has 'forgotten where the toilet is' and 'didn't get there in time', and all manner of other nonsense. At nursery she comes home with pants that have clearly been wet and dried several times over. Wtf is wrong with her?

DS did this in September. It was grim. We were all miserable and stressed about it. He had a small uti that knocked things off. That, combined with new baby, I had been wiped out with pneumonia so a bit absent to him, and changes to staff and room at nursery conpounded the issue. He had only been toilet trained for 2-3 months prior though.
Has she had any major changes recently Bean?

No, everything is as it has always been. We talk about school a lot and I know she's worried about making new friends and not seeing her nursery friends anymore. The age gap between mine means we've bypassed jealously on the whole. Just don't get it

How weird. Is there any way she could have a UTI? Is she going to the loo for poos as normal?

I hate when I kill the thread!

How's your DD a week on, bean?

Another good parents' evening here. We've been told that DD is easily at reception level for everything including writing, counting and drawing and would fit in right now apparently. The teacher has also said she's ready to learn to read! This is not good news for me because phonics is like a foreign language to me (we didn't do it at all at school and I am stuck in the muh a tuh camp), we've been told we can start helping her learn to read now and I am so not ready for this! To think I used to worry about her being one of the youngest in the class!