June 2013 - the terrible twos aren't so terrible

[Biscuitswithtea]

Here goes with a new thread!

Ha ha others have said that I am so very Windsor. And I guess I am. You definitely have a Scottish accent in my head though!

Six weeks till we find out about schools! It's coming around much more quickly than I thought it would.

Had a moment of panic when I discovered that my email provider has randomly started blocking gov addresses (but not bouncing emails back to them, they've just been disappearing into thin air!), and had visions of having missed a demand for proof of address or something (as they asked for nothing on the application form, not even the council tax number that they asked for on the nursery application form). Called and they said they've already verified our address as they check the address for every application using the council tax system and the electoral role. Phew!

*roll!

Bet that was a nerve-wracking few minutes, Cup!

I think it makes sense to check their own records before asking for proof (which people may not have easy access to).

I think the next 6 weeks will go quickly as we are gallivanting around Scotland during the Easter break so that will take up our time nicely and make me forget the wait.

I'm not as worried as I was initially...think I'm just bored waiting now! 😂

Can yours wipe their own arses?! Should they be able to?! She will make a half baked attempt declare it dirty then scream till I sort it out. Am so over this .

DD can, in the main. Took a bit of getting used to though!

Yeah no there's very little self-help happening on the arse-wiping front. He will go and do the actual poop on his own then sit there, yelling 'HELLLLLP HELLLLP' until one of his servers come to wipe up.

TBH I'm not 100% convinced of his potential skill level and a clean drop is a rarity anyway. 😳

Yes, DD has done since not long after she toilet trained. I'm sure I read that you shouldn't let them that young however I checked she'd done a proper job a few times and she always had so I've left her to it since. She's Miss Independent though. Will not let anyone help her to get dressed (she puts tights on more quickly than I put them on myself!) etc. Refused the child toilet seat after a week or two and pulled herself up on the proper seat instead.

What happens in nursery? Is she ok then? Ours won't get involved in that and expect them to do it themselves.

Mixed. Sometimes she attempts it. Sometimes sits and yells for help. Nursery very happy to assist as the younger kids using that loo will only have been recently trained. I'm thinking that if they wouldn't then maybe we wouldn't have this problem!

DS wipes. But if it's a poo then I usually need to double check that he is clean afterwards.
It took a while to click into place, and it is filed below getting to the toilet in the first place (toilet training only properly clicked in the new year for him)

He also likes to be entirely independent at home - but will yell if something (usually aim) goes wrong.
Nursery seem to expect him to be independent- which is fine for wees, but is proving problematic for poos at the moment.

Washing hands requires a reminder but he will happily do so once prompted.

I don't really understand how nurseries can refuse to get involved? Polly has a friend who has additional needs and can't manage any aspect by herself. She wouldn't be able to go to nursery if they didn't help!

They can - ours warned that they had to be toilet trained before starting (HV also mentioned). Seems to be a common thing with school nurseries after a quick search. From what I've heard they'll help with changing clothes in the case of accidents, but that's it.

If DD had been an end of August baby she wouldn't have been fully trained in time so I don't know what would have happened! One of her friends there turned 4 before they even started nursery last September; it does seem unfair on the younger ones that there are the same expectations at this age!

Surely that amounts to discrimination if it's caused by a disability?

You would think so but what happens in reception and the year above? We know a primary school teacher and I remember her saying years ago that they weren't allowed to help children if they were struggling with going to the toilet.

I've just searched and found a document from a random school (the first one that came up). It says that for children with disabilities they'd have a welfare assistant to help. southfieldschool.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Pupil_Toileting_Policy-1.pdf

My child can but choses for the most part to just shout "mummy I've done a pooooooooo" roughly 5 minutes after I've sat down for dinner.

On the few occasions I've ignored her she has attempted a wipe but has used roughly five thousand and eleventy billion sheets of loo roll to achieve it.

What she is massively proud of though is she declared she is now a big girl and won't wear bed pants at night. Given she's had a wet nappy every morning I wasn't enthused by this idea but apparently mental willpower is all it needed and she's been dry at night for 4 days now

They're not allowed to insist that a child is toilet trained at all, as its discrimination (and at this age it's entirely possible that any potential SN won't have been diagnosed). Any nursery saying they won't take a non-toilet trained child is breaking the law. Ofsted wouldn't be impressed by it at all. The preschool our kids are at will change nappies as long as they're needed, while encouraging / helping with toilet training.

DH has trained DD to use the bare minimum in relation to loo roll. I find it funny how little she uses!

Are the rules different for school nurseries though, as it seems to be fairly common with those from what I can see?

Private nurseries will be used to having children of all ages and therefore staff will already be cleared to wipe older ones if necessary?

DD uses very little too, she sometimes likes to get some for me and I have to sneakily get a bit more!

No, the equality laws cover all of them. Ours is a 2+ private preschool, so doesn't have babies there, but change nappies for as long as they have to.

There's been loads of threads on MN about this issue, and they really aren't allowed to discriminate.

I've no idea if DS will be trained by September. I'm doubting it judging by his utter refusal to use either the loo or a potty right now!

I would think it very harsh if a reception teacher refused to help a child who had got themselves in a mess. It happens and would be cruel to ignore. I'd be so sad for her as she gets very upset if she gets poo on her clothes.

I know of a child in nursery who has had a couple of accidents. According to his mum they changed his clothes but didn't clean him as she could smell it when she picked him up!

It's to do with safeguarding. That document mentions about needing two members of staff if they have to help, and that they'd only do that on rare occasions. Staffing levels are part of the issue. They just don't have enough staff to have two members disappear each time a child needs help. DD's class has a teacher and two assistants. According to that document if a form hasn't been completed giving permission to provide intimate care the parent has to attend urgently!

Ours won't administer medication either, yet they expect them to attend unless they have one of a small list of illnesses. Parents/ carers expected to turn up to administer! DD had a vaccination before nursery and had had a bad reaction to the previous dose. They said if her temperature went up I'd need to come in and give her the medication (and go back home then come back to pick her up!).

Hearing all this makes me so glad that we've chosen the preschool we have.

Hopefully the school is understanding too. As it's Ofsted outstanding I'm sure its SN provision / inclusivity is fine (assuming we get our first choice. Our second choice has an amazing SN unit, so I know it'll be OK if we get that one).

I am so so glad our nursery is better than that. Everyone is an hour away at work so no scope for coming in to assist. One 'teacher' per four kids when I think the official ratio is one to eight. No pressure to attend or perform and we can come and go as we please. The idea that they wouldn't give my distressed child calpol is itself very distressing. As is the idea they wouldn't help her get changed. I honestly had no idea that care levels were so much lower in the school nursery system. That's really very upsetting.