October 2014 // thread 6 // baby's new year resolution is to sleep more?!

[sazzlehopes]

Morning all, how was the night? It was quiet on here so either all sleeping or furiously rocking/ jiggling/ feeding.
E was worn out by jabs and previous night of no sleep so feeling much better today. Hoping to get another hour in bed.
Almost the weekend!

I think my child is broken. She woke every 90 minutes. Why? Why? For the last couple of weeks she's been getting through a twelve hour night with only two wake ups and now it's all gone awful.

Normal night here - sleep at10, feed at 2 then 4.30, then just woke up at 8. She's not interested in food first thing, it's annoying - why can't she just ignore the need for food at 4.30 and try to get to 6 or something.

Boyfriend announced last night that he hasn't bonded with her the way he expected, that since she's arrived (and from since I got pregnant), his life has been shitter (his word), and he mostly just wants her to shut up. So that's nice. Anything I can do to help do you think? Or has he just got to man up? Baby was planned.

Did he tell you that in a cry for help/ being honest type way? Or having a go at you? I feel those things a bit (although thankfully less and less) as a sign of depression.

But yes either way he has to just live with it really.

Great night here, sorry about unexpected wake ups suddenly . Could it be 4 month sleep regression tatty&pregnant? Im nearly at the 4 month mark # shitting it

Went to the panto last night with dd1 so she's off nursery as it was a late night and she has been doing wee's constantly since yesterday so at the doc's this afternoon to check for a urine infection, hopefully my blood results are back to see if im lacking something but will probably just come back "lacking 8 hours solid sleep"

Ahh goats thats harsh what is it in particular thats got "shitter" for him? You are getting up in the night, so it cant be lack of sleep? Is it maybe you dont spend as much time together doing the things you enjoy? I would have been raging and probably would have told him to take his shit life elsewhere and make it un-shit

A being honest type way. Tone of voice was a bit panicked really. He's gone away tonight to see his brother, who has a 3 year old, in the hope that he'll be able to give him some advice along the lines of 'it gets better'. I was FUMING when he announced he was going away, I mean when do I get to just push off for the night to go out for dinner with my friends? So waited a couple of days then just asked if there was anything I needed to know about. Cue last night's conversation.

I don't feel my life has got 'shitter' - my life has obviously changed HUGELY, but it's just 'different'. I don't hate it, I don't always love it either, but I don't hate it. I'm finding it very interesting. I didn't talk to him about my feelings though, cos it wasn't about me.

Oh Stigz - the things that have got shitter: can't go out to eat without one of us having to hold her, she's awake in the evenings and not always happy about it (we're working on sleep stuff, but it takes time doesn't it), she wakes him up in the night (he doesn't sleep well, even though he's in another room), we can't go out together and get pissed (yet), we don't sleep in the same bed, we don't have enough sex, he feels like we can't make any holiday type plans, he feels really responsible regards keeping hold of a job etc. He's also worrying about money, but that's more to do with our house renovation.

goats you sound very tolerant, think I would have reacted in a knee jerk "well f* off then" way. But i guess it's good that he's been honest about his feelings so you can all help address them. Hopefully his brother will help him.

It is so hard adjusting to life with a newborn, luckily goats the things he seems upset about are only temporary and they will come back at some point, you have probably done the hardest bit (first 3 months).

Its a catch 22 situation ... He is allowed to feel the way he feels but would be easier for both of you if he just accepted that his life has changed and probably wont be 100% back to normal, but it will become enjoyable, if the two of you could just ride the storm together it wouldn't seem as hard, is he sympathetic to your feelings when you are having down day or a day where you think "what the fuck have i done"

Boyfriend announced last night that he hasn't bonded with her the way he expected, that since she's arrived (and from since I got pregnant), his life has been shitter (his word), and he mostly just wants her to shut up.

Is this boyfriend a keeper, or not? Because this having a baby malarkey will force that decision.

Assuming he's a keeper, then please be kind to him.

My DH was diagnosed with anxiety/depression about 3 weeks, showing all the signs of post-natal depression like you describe above. I got him to the doctors by saying to him that if I described the same feelings to him about me, he would immediately take me to the doctors regarding postnatal depression.

DH and I have never had any mental health issues before, so neither of us have any experience of this. But we did have a very traumatic birth during which he bore most of the responsibility for the safety of his unborn child, wife and mother of his 3 children. He got very scared by it all.

With every fibre of my being I wanted to tell him to man up over the last 3 months. But I haven't.
I've suggested things (that he should already know from previous babies)
I've helped him when he thinks he can't cope with baby (though he's done this 3 times before).
I've reassured that he is going things right
I've reassured that when baby cries there is nothing wrong with him/baby.
Told him it's not personal
Encouraged he goes to bed early (I can nap in the day, he can't)

Now that baby cries less, interacts more, and he is on some medication (albeit more of a placebo dose I believe) - he is a lot better and so is who much he enjoys our much awaited-for 4th baby.

Goats, be kind to him rather than angry. I don't believe my DH had any control over this mental health issue, it can strike anyone.

about 3 weeks ago, that should say (not when baby was 3 weeks old).

Incidentally the diagnosis came as a result of a 999 call to him when he (and everyone around him) thought he was having a heart attack at work. Turns out it was a panic attack. Never had one before.

In some ways my life is shitter, definitely. But in other ways enhanced and yes, amazingly interesting and also you can't keep things the sane forever. I was spoiled before really and it's been a huge shock losing autonomy. But it's coming back already in small ways.

Fate sorry to hear about your DH. It's a horrible thing to go through, you're right to be kind of course.

Oh he's definitely a keeper! I'm just looking for ways to help him really.

I think probably that he hasn't spent enough time with her to see the cool personality stuff that's going on - I think that would help a lot. He admits that he has led an essentially selfish life, and continued to behave selfishly in our relationship (he did, but it's not a negative thing) and it's a big adjustment. Again I didn't talk about how this has affected my life!

Ironically he's actually great with her. He's more calming than playful though, which doesn't always work to 'shut her up'.

I also think that men look at the mother of their child and think that we are great at dealing with the baby, we always seem to know what we are doing, we barely "lose it" and make it look easy, we are cool, calm & collected most of the time, we can multi task which is a great skill when you have children. I think because we dont really tell our dp's the half of how stressed we feel sometimes so we look like "wonder women" iyswim?

I don't know what the thoughts of the first time Mums are on here, but I often think that new parents are not prepared enough for the realities of a new baby by the antenatal services. Mums and Dads

I wonder how much postnatal depression is down to "it wasn't what I was expecting". Unrealistic expectations. I think I could think of at least a dozen women I know who suffered PND which could be summarised as this.

Obviously not true for every PND case. Not least since DH is not a first time Dad and the cause is different. But a good percentage of the PND cases I know of could anecdotally be put down to the realities of parenthood not being what you expected for the first time parent.

What could be done? When I was first time pregnant I am not sure I would have believed the realities. I would have (stupidly) thought I would do better than that, I wouldn't make those mistakes, my baby would be great and have great habits. Of course all that changes when the massive reality hits.

There is a case for helping first time parents have realistic expectations for the first 6 months. But that goes against the ethos for many successful women who are taught to aim high with high expectations. Being told to lower what to expect surely would be crushing.

I don't know. Maybe it is just the eternal steep learning curve that all parents have to go though. Like it is a necessary evil to learn unconditional responsibility.

I think it's okay to feel like your life has got shitter. My life has got shitter. I'm fine with that because at some point, sooner now rather than later, it's going to get immeasurably better. Maybe if he can just accept that it's hard for now he can feel a bit more at peace? It's not the perceived fact of things being difficult that's the problem, but how you feel about it.

I don't know if this is sleep regression. She's 13 weeks so it seems a bit early, but really last night was so bad.

tatty r has been like that since Monday it is really shit :( like you we were on one or worst case two wakes up a night and he was going down at 7. He is 13 weeks too. He has been waking every 2 hours.
Last night was a lot better he went down at 7 woke at 9 dp gave him a really small feed, we woke him at 11 then he grumbled at 1 but I ignored him and he went back off til 5! Fed then back down til 7 when we had to get up.

I. Hoping he has turned a corner but I'm not holding my breath!!

I agree fate with your last post, deffo not enough "preparation" for life with a newborn but like you say can you really prepare someone for a lifetime responsibilty? You cant really get the full effect and "try before you buy" so i think it is a 24/7 life lesson, luckily women have a " mothers instinct" which is an added bonus for us and unfortunately first time parents cant see the many joys that is to come, as your child grows, its so hard to believe that it will get easier when you are stuck in the here & now feeling like shit. When the time is right parents will have to make a decision wether to ride the storm of parent hood again or say no thanks we are happy as we are based on their own circumstance & experience.

fate I really agree with you. So few people are prepared to be honest, I think because if you say "I'm not enjoying this" or " I'm not bonding with my child like I thought I would" is easy to think people will hear "I don't love my child". But that's not what you're saying at all. It's just incrediblyhard and early on it's quite grinding, but I think the more you're expecting it to be like that, the more you can prepare yourself, and the easier it is to pull on through until it all comes together.

tatty and pregnant we are on the 2 hour wake ups too and have been for maybe a week? N is 15 weeks tomorrow so coming up to 4 months but we are earlyish too... Just hoping it'll pass in no more than a week more or so. I'm tempted to crack open some formula too for an evening feed, I'd express but when they are on your boobs that much there's not really time!
I asked before but thought I would again to see if anyone has tried goat milk formula? Nanny care I think it's called. Supposed to be easy to digest etc and wondered about it?

And fate so true. But I think impossible to prepare for... You really think you'll be different or the baby will or people are just being meant!!! This time round my expectations really were soooooo much lower and I've found this whole newborn bit tiring of course but much less mental inducing... The first time round I doubted everything I was doing and stressed over it all wondering when each stage that was hard when would end. Now I'm trying harder to enjoy these moments incase we don't have any more...

"So few people are prepared to be honest"

I think that is true of both mums themselves, also those who could give useful advice. For complex reasons, people are often discouraged from practical and useful advise.

How many times do you read here on Mumsnet that "you can't spoil a newborn with too many cuddles" often in response to someones own DM or MIL suggesting they put baby down to sleep rather than cradling all the time. Of course true. But it hides the fact that for many if you hold/cradle/rock baby all the time as a newborn rather than put baby down to sleep - then you might need to hold/cradle/rock baby to sleep for a long time to come and end up developing poor sleep habits. You might not, but you might.

People get scared to offer realistic advise because they don't want to offend anyone, certainly not the new mother.

I'm not a fan of this kind of pussy footing around. I wish when I was a FTM someone would have just sat me down and told me the way it realistically is and made me understand. It would have saved a lot of heartache.

Would I have believed them though? I would have probably thought (not said) something along the lines of it was that way for you because you did it wrong. I will do everything right. Now let me get on with being the perfect parent I will be.

As usual I massively agree with Fate. I have tried to follow her advice and it has worked to an extent. I hate the threads on here where someone says their baby wakes every 30 mins all night and hundreds of people say "oh normal!" Well yes not uncommon maybe but I think it's really unhelpful to imply it's standard. It's terrifying to read apart from anything else.

Fate very true! And when you have a precious perfect newborn and tut at the rampaging toddlers at playgroups which might, shudder, tread vaguely near your precious firstborn and think "my perfect baby will never be like that" oh hahahahaha I just smile and think "soon all of this will be yours" .

Goats I hope he's as accommodating of you as you are of him. It could be PND - 20% of reported cases are in men (and I bet reporting rates are very low in men). It does sound from your posts like he's distancing himself from day to day babycare - without spending more time with her he's going to find it tricky to bond more. Avoiding spending time with a baby by going away, sleeping separately etc is going to create a distance. Once you've weaned Pip will he be happy if you just went away without her, with no notice? I know with my first I wanted to be that cool chilled out wife who didn't nag or have expectations and I'd have wanted to be all "oh that's fine dear" but I'd have secretly been hurt. Actually some stuff does change when you have a baby and I'd say just upping sticks for a weekend without me and our baby is unreasonable, especially if I've been on my own with the kids all week. Saying that that's unreasonable doesn't make me needy or a nag. I have expectations about parenting together - shoot me ! Its great he was able to voice what he's going through but he kinda has to throw himself in - with kids you get out what you put in. If you think its PND speak to the HV, otherwise maybe hand him a bottle of EBM and go out for a morning