November 2012 - All our babies are 18 months, where has the time gone?

[StuntNun]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/2079383-November-2012-Roll-on-summer-we-want-paddling-pools

I hated all my mat clothes by the end but when I was rummaging the other day I felt quite nostalgic. I have two pairs from next I think. I bought pretty much everything else from Newlook.

We can't actually think about buying a house for another 6 months really so haunted house is unlikely to be around by then. However., given that p is prone to staring into the middle distance and saying 'halloooo" I am preparing myself for lots of poo in pants (mine)

What about reversing it izzy? Could you give her a coffee jar and put pasta or something whenever she is good and does something specific. So she finishes her dinner without dropping food - she gets a pasta. When she gets so many pasta she can trade them in. 10 pasta for a sweet, 20 for a small toy and so on?

And re ps - get on FB.

Anything spilled or dropped is lost - am starting this with R to some effect.

Praise praise praise even the slightest thing she does well "Wow, you're holding my hand really nicely to cross this road" kind of stuff.

Definitely do the pasta in a jam jar thing - give rather than take away.

If she asks for something in the whiney voice, tell her she'll get it when she asks nicely. You can role model (my mum started me doing this with R, it's quite amusing to interpret "UH!" as "Please may i have another biscuit, Granny?") if you want to but don't give it until she asks in something vaguely approaching a polite way.

Try Time In instead of Time Out. 5 4 3 2 1 then ask if she's ready for a cuddle to help calm down.

Obviously only some of these will work for you, some might be a bit too strict and some might be a bit too hippy - my parenting style seems to be an odd mix of really strict enforced by gentle discipline measures but I figure you can never have too many things to try! Good luck

Evening everyone :)

Hows stuffs? best read the fred I guess! Had a nice day here, went for a nice long walk around a nice local spot with one of the dogs, and then went out for sunday lunch (at tea time, but that's ok)

sorry to read of some bad nights, am wondering how Stunt is getting on atm at night time? Hope good nights are had tonight, I didn't sleep much last night, e was up a couple of times, had an early start and it was just too flipping hot to get any decent sleep

so glad you're feeling much better wanda

perse i'd see how you are, but do look after yourself x

sounds like r is doing fab pp glad to hear his rash/poorly area is healing now

sinusitis still playing up pass? Did the nap help at all? bless little P too, hope she's alright soon, I think e is starting to get his canines fo sho, as he is very upset if he bites down on those fleshy areas, one in particular

chasing I think it was bound to be a very emotional day for you, massive hugs

glad to hear your cough has fucked off vq about sodding time!

My comfy maternity jeans were from peacoks and new look yw hope you find something that suits :)

bp i love F stories, she makes me chuckle!

sounds like she's being a handful Izzy please do feel free to vent/rant, I don't really have any suggestions but think pass's pasta one is fab, and do remember my mum doing something similar to pps suggestion of 'when you ask nicely you can have xyz' and then being very firm. She always followed through with it and stuck to things she had said when we were kids. I have noticed she's alot less strict with the younger ones of us grr. I remember my mum being quite strict at meal times, so i'm not sure any of the kinds of things i remember would be very good suggestions! Nothing torturous or anything, obviously :) Also I can only really remember the kinds of things we'd be told for when older than your dd. As an example if we were kicking each other under the table and she didn't know who was doing it/started it, we had to eat the rest of our meal stood up unless we owned up to it. To be fair we were older than four and soon learnt! Could it be just a phase with her? How long has she been behaving like this? have some hugs, and hopefully you'll find something to suit that'll help her behave a little better :)

I've been using as a kinda sad face. Oh dear.

Izzy if it helps we are having great fun with our 4yo too. Remember she is still only small and will know she is starting school soon. Also she has a little bro who is becoming more and more independent by the day. Her world is changing and she doesn't really have the words or indeed cognitive ability to process it all. She is also going through a growth and developmental spurt. We had all these things with DD1 and it did pass. However at 7 we have revisited a lot of this, but she is bigger and better able to process it all and explain her feelings. On Saturday night it was 4yo who was sent to bed early in disgrace, and last night it was the 7yo. It is important to give boundaries and teach them how to behave in the world, but always with love.

izzy no idea what to say,I have no experience!

having a lovely time in uk, today I'm meeting up with 2 friends plus my doula who became very a special person in our lives. staying with my oldest friend now and it feels good. yesterday we had a lovely day at battersea zoo and park, this week we will stay closer to clapham and its playgrounds(anyone close by?).

o is a superstar, she is interacting and just so confident. her sleep has not suffered at all so far.

izzy it sounds like you are exhausted with her. in my experience there is always going to be someone who is going through a phase and will need dealing with but take heart in that it is just a phase.

I don't really rate reward charts. They don't work with all children and mine have never been bothered.

So if it were me I would ignore a lot of the table behaviour and carry on, yes I think anything dropped is lost and maybe at the end of a reasonable time just remove the plate and start clearing up. (That is if you think she is eating slowly to be annoying). Our reaction to things are what they want most. I also think (and don't always do it) that eating as a family is best for them learning how to behave at the table.

I too try and ignore whiners. I learnt after DD1, who was the worlds greatest whine bag, that I would not put up with it. So I am quite strict. I often turn a round and walk away. DS 1 is allowed the I pad on a Friday and a Saturday before bed as a weekend treat, he didn't get it on
Sat because he had been whinging all day. That is rare for him tbh .

It seems she wants some of your attention, do you sit and play games with her or take her some where on her own and have some fun. Show her that that kind of attention is preferable to being told off all the time. DS1 is 31/2 and over the last few days we have been playing The Spotty
Dog Game, it is an Orchard toy one, he has loved it. Or hard toys have great games for little ones and mine always love to sit and play a game.

I know it is easy to say sit and play or have one on one time, and it seems like a luxury to be able to do that as many of us work, have limited time etc. When we get precious time off there is a toppling mountain of laundry, beds to change, food shopping to do etc etc. But I think spending time with our children is probably the best way we can get through to them. I still have to remind myself (and sometimes DH has to remind me) 4 children on as life just builds up and we forget.

I really try to do jobs type things Mon to Fri and the weekends are sacred. I will only do essentials or "fun" jobs and stuff we can do as a family. like weeding

I could whitter on about it for ages as when I got divorced I took a long hard look at myself too.

I will sit up now and go and stop my on children climbing up the walls

Thank you for the kind comments. We already always eat at the table for all meals no exceptions so she should be able to learn table manners. Unless she looks at J!

It's difficult as I know it's a phase. I have to admit I don't play one on one with her. However we never really have any time just her and I as J is always around. It's so tricky.

I know, I find that with O always pulling on me if I try to spend time with DS1.

Today is my first day with no work, as you can imagine that made things super fraught at home, trying to work at home and do stuff with the boys. This week I have declared a holiday week but I am also going to spend some time really thinking about how we change our routine.

H is having a crying fit. He won't stop. Buscuits, milk, toys nothing is stopping it. Can't work out what to do. I e got nurophen into him. Any ideas? 45mins so far.

My aunt has 5 children, all grown now, but the best bit of advice she gave me was to always spend some 1:1 time with each child each day. She was a SAHM, but that brings different challenges too. It was pretty easy to do with two, or with my two anyway. With three it is logistically harder, but if you plan your days loosely and involve DH then it is possible, if DH is around obviously. We make a point of it happening at the weekend. We make it happen. Good luck xxx

Any other symptoms GT? Have you checked him to make sure he hasn't hurt himself at all? J pulled a nail off a while back and it took a while to work it out. Teeth? Temperature? Sorry I cannot be more help x

He has calmed down now. Fh took him for a walk. Nothing I can work out. Checked for scratches bruises. Pressed my hand all over his body to see if any were in particular was tender. He still seems grumpy.
He is a little wheezy now. But I think that's from all the screaming.

Fh thinks he got jealous when he saw mil feeding A? But I'm not sure about that.

Izzy can you spend time with her when J is napping? My only (consistent) 1:1 time with DD is on a Saturday when S has his nap. I always spend it doing what she wants. I also put her to bed after S on the 4 nights I do bedtime alone, this means that those nights she has my undivided attention immediately before bed.

I don't really have much to suggest but it's very interesting reading the responses. I'm pretty strict and firm, DH is a pushover less so. Distraction and getting them to laugh mid-whinge/tantrum works really well for us. As does water play - one of the best bits of advice I read is that almost all toddlers and children can be distracted from a tantrum by water. So if they're ever really about to push me/themselves over the edge, I either get them outside with loads of pots and water or if it's too horrid outside, give them a bath. They love an unscheduled bath. They really really love it if I get in with them. Odd children.

GT hope H is ok now.

Hope the first day of the new set up goes well Wanda

If the 1:1 at nap time doesn't work, is there a playgroup you can get to? I know of one every morning of the week plus some afternoons nearby although we rarely go to all of them in the same week. You might find J is distracted and off exploring giving you time to play with DD? I agree with Wanda that meal times are finished after a certain amount of time. if R is messing around I remove all the food from in front of him and ask if he's finished. If he lets me take it, I know he's had enough but usually he'll shout at me so I give it back and he'll eat nicely after that.

GT too hot, too cold (depending on what he's wearing), teeth, drink maybe if it's as hot there as it is here?

Good luck with your new freedom Wanda

R spent nearly 10 minutes on the toilet before we left the house (he was happy to sit there that length of time). Was dry all the way to playgroup (in the car which takes 3 minutes because it's slightly too far to walk (40 minutes and hilly) and I'm lazy! Which is why we don't often go to this one) I showed him the toilet when we got there, 2 minutes later he was wet It's only day 4 and all the EC stuff aimed at older babies/young toddlers suggests that we could have weeks if not months of this i don't think it'll take that long and I'm not really following some of the more outrageous (to my eyes) suggestions but it's really made me doubt if I'm doing the right thing although putting him back in nappies, whether sooner or later, would seem like a bit of a backward step to him as well as me?

PP I would put him in nappies. I don't think he is ready yet. If you put him in pull-ups then he can still pee and poo on the toilet. You can still do all that, and when he can do it in the right place try again. That is my advice based on my experience.

Yeah, i might pop him back in a prefold for the mornings as he tends not to have accidents in the afternoon. Also, he has enough control (I was doing this before the switch to pants) for me to get the nappy off and him onto the toilet when he asks to go. This morning I've been a bit more proactive about putting him on the toilet at convenient times - before getting dressed, before leaving the house, will pop him on before we come down for lunch etc - so I'll give it another day or two then make the change if needed. He's getting funny about his nappies if they're too boosted so i think he's more comfotable in pants, it's just a question of how long it'll take to get the let-go reflex under his control.

ARGH! Why is this so hard?!?!?! Sorry i keep going on about it, nobody seems to be able to say definitively whether this is definitely the best thing for him or not! It definitely is in terms of the rash, but psychologically? He's started coughing again (not bothering him, especially as I've raised his cot mattress this morning and not heard it at all during this nap) and I'm seriously tempted to get him a Dr appointment about it and ask them for advice, but I probably won't get my lovely sensible GP who knows the history so might hang on for next week...

I dunno Pidj, I reckon it's only a backward step if you portray it as a bad thing. Learning to do any new skill involves some forward steps and some backwards ones and you could portray it as just part of the practicing process. With most of this stuff it seems timing is everything. And learning that you don't always manage to achieve something first time, but that it takes work and you'll get there in the end is a great lesson to teach him long term.

My sister (with her DD) has just played it along the lines of "well done hon you are so nearly there, I'm so proud of you for trying so hard. But you keep forgetting when you need to go and then get sad that your pants are wet. It's no big deal, lets keep practicing. How about a break for a few weeks and then we'll try again with wearing the big girl pants". She is allowed to wear her big girl pants over her nappy at the moment if she really wants and allowed to try on the loo or potty whenever she wants even though they are not formally training. I think it has really helped her to relax about it. She used to sit on the loo for ages looking dead worried (about doing a poo, wees were fine). My sister was worrying she was pushing her too early having seen pals have to put their wee ones on laxatives because they get literally 'anally retentive' because of the perceived pressure and not wanting to say goodbye to their poos (any pressure is wholly unintended by the parents and they really aren't pressuring their kids but their kids still feel it IYSWIM?) She tried a few times with her son and if it was taking longer than 10 days with no real progress would give up and try again a few months later, and the final time she knew he was ready as he was totally dry within three days. I think that's the route I'm going to go down - though it'll be a long while for us. Whilst he's dry 90% of the time at night, communication and memory wise - I don't think (especially if distracted with playing or reading) that he could stop what he was doing and tell me he needed to go, before he had gone! And given if he's upset yes can mean no and off can mean on, and black can mean white - I think we'd have too many accidents and that can be disheartening for them even if you aren't making a big deal about it (which is clearly the case here).

I think he'll be one of the first to train without a doubt, but if it isn't now it is no big deal. It might be that he is enjoying the nappy free time as his bum is healing and there's no sting of wee against the rash if he wees on the floor or on the loo and that this process has taught him some really valuable cues about training - in which case he's figured out much more than most of the ours about going to the loo! Don't put so much pressure on yourself (you seem quite stressed about it?). FWIW the French think the Brits are nuts for thinking that early hitting of milestones is something to see as good, instead they see it as rushing our babies into adulthood - when it isn't a race. As a Mum of a late walker I tried to remember this, but am utterly hypocritical and think the opposite when it comes to his language which is advanced and ergo he's a genius right? Easier said than done but if it's not now, it's no biggy xxx

I wonder if he's rejecting the nappies in the summer because of the hot weather? Wool etc is very warm. What cooler options are there? (Bamboo? I have no idea but I'm sure there are some?) You say he seems to prefer less padded ones so it could be heat rather than a desire to be out of nappies and toilet trained per se. I know J is much less tolerant of being warm this summer than he was last and we are having to put him to bed in much thinner clothing / bags.

That's the attitude I'm trying to portray, YW then letting off steam here because I don't know if I'm doing the right thing! Although I'm not really mentioning the sad when wet thing, just "Never mind, we'll try again later, you're a very good boy and mummy's very proud that you're trying" type of thing. 10 days? We're only on day 4 of pants and slightly firmer encouragement - when he was in nappies, I'd only take him to the toilet if he asked to go, and wouldn't try to keep him there if he wanted down; now I'm offering more regularly and entertaining him to keep him there a bit longer.

He was in knee length wool shorts - wool is more breathable than plastic in either PUL or sposies and apparently helps regulate their temperature better - but he's down now for his nap in wool pants over a bamboo nappy with just a babygrow over, no sleeping bag at all. Took him a bit longer than normal to settle but he managed it in 10 minutes and has been asleep for nearly an hour and a quarter so it obviously hasn't buggered things up too much!

R has been doing PR's thing of waving bye bye to the poo for a while now, fingers crossed it works.

I honestly don't give a shit (sic) if he's first or last. I want him to be happy. And he's less happy in a wet nappy than he is in wet pants.

Hmm I agree with you on the French attitude for milestones yw French kids have to be trained earlier due to school starting earlier. Here the advice now is not before 18mo. So this is still young. You have good reasons for trying, but giving it a break is no bad thing and is not going backwards. You also need to remember pidj that boys are notoriously harder to train than girls so starting early will be hard. But it's just the start of summer so lots of nappy free time for the rash and trying again in a few weeks is very doable.

Pidj as you say you want him to be happy, try him in the sposie pull-ups. I hear what you are saying about the cloth, but try him and let him decide.

Hello all

Perse huge hugs. I hope you are looking after yourself. I mc'd just before I had H. He was conceived the first cycle after. I would take a full week off if you can. I went back after 3 days and was an emotional mess, but we are all different i suppose. But I do wish I didn't do back so soon.