March 2013 - we're gonna need a bigger wine rack

[Plonkysaurus]

Ta da!

DD's lovely Greek dentist would like you, Rainbow, he's very much in favour of one treat day a week. She just had a small piece of Easter egg as a reward for sitting still and letting me trim her nails though.

Is anyone giving serious thought to potty training yet, or is it just some nebulous future wossname to be considered at an unspecified future date? Recently my dad pulled a face when I said I was expecting potty training somewhere between two and three, but I was reading a thread earlier today which seems to suggest that's normal.

It's a wossname here Stormy.

DM assures me I was potty trained at 18 months. My laugh was short and hollow, but I am thinking of purchasing a potty soon to see if we can catch the morning poo.

Eurgh.

stormy we are doing potty training here already of sorts. We did a very simplified form of elimination communication method with DD since she was very small. Every time we see DD do a wee or a poop we bring her attention to it, make a noise and discuss how pee and poop go in the potty. She is now very aware of what she is doing and will sign and point as she goes in her nappy and point at the door and sign (roughly!) for her potty. We started by sitting her on the potty every morning soon after she wakes from about 8 months and she does a pee most mornings now and about 50 per cent of the time stays dry till nappy change mid morning when she pees again on the potty. From 10 months we sat her on the potty at every nappy change and before bed so she is very familiar with the process. I often go to the toilet at the same time to show what it's all about! She has started signing that she needs to go at other times but at the moment she only gives us seconds warning but it's a start. I'm a firm believer in starting early but only because I have friends around the world where that is very normal and some who don't even really use nappies much at all but rely on the proper elimination communication method) which I didn't have the energy to do!

We have actually had a potty since the first trimester. The younger of my sister's kids was fine with the potty but funny about the loo back then. They came to visit, drove up overnight, left the girls at my brother's while my sister and her husband caught up on sleep. Niece was too shy to say she needed a wee. Went through seven pairs of knickers that day. Don't think she enjoyed it much, because the next day she decided she was a big girl and going to use the toilet. And that was that. So she decided to leave her potty here for Fartypants to use.

We use an ikea potty - highly recommend as middle bit comes out so easy to clean!

Ours is just basic, one moulded piece of plastic. Not dissimilar from the one I had as a small child, which I still remember my mother complaining about having to empty (in my defence, I would happily have gone down to the loo in the night if I'd been allowed!).

We draw attention to excretions too, but I think we'll be sticking with the "wait until she makes it clear she's ready" method. It seems to result in very rapid potty training with minimal accidents. I don't mind sticking with nappies for longer if it means not spending most of my time cleaning wee and poo off a rented carpet.

Another one here with app issues and too lazy to entertain the idea of the mobile site

Oh man, we have to start contemplating potties now? DS seems to enjoy pooping in the bath. Can I just leave him in there all the time? Or is that, like, neglect or summink?

yummy how is ToddleYum today?

betty date day sounds lovely. For my birthday this year, MIL and FIL are coming over to baby and puppy sit (cos we'll have our puppy by then and I'm crazy excited) so that DP and I can have a date night. I suggested Zizzis, he suggested local pub grub. Can't complain really, I won't be paying.

We do sugar in moderation here. I think that as long as he's getting a balanced diet, a la ToddlePlonk, a few treats here and there won't hurt. Besides, he spent the morning with DM and he's there all day tomorrow so supposedly will be licking it out of the sugar bowl by the time I pick him up.

Potty training? Hell no. I don't know a single person who has done it before 2ish. My plan, unless dd appears ready earlier, is that next summer we'll do 6 weeks of running around in the buff in the summer holidays. Kudos to rainbow and rainbow toddler for getting in there so early but, to be honest, that just sounds like effort

I know of many toddlers who, at 2.5, say "I'm not wearing my nappy anymore mummy", and when told "ok well you'll just have to use the toilet then", just get on with it with minimal accidents.

I do always have her in the bathroom with me, and tell her what I'm doing and when! I also always ask 'is there a poo in your nappy?' Even when I know the answer, just to try to get a dialogue going about it.

Thanks for talking to re: DH. Disappeared through embarrassment about banality of the row, although am still a little grumpy with home which I think is much more about housework in general than specific tasks. Stormy- DH is pretty much the least red-flaggy type of bloke you've ever met. In fact he's bordering on being a tad wet-blankety. I've done a cleaning rota. Is that awful? He's just got no housework initiative.

So, have started running, but sometimes feel a bit pelvic-floory afterwards. Is this ok? Will it improve or am I damaging myself? Is it linked to the spd do you think? I'm still trying to remember to squeeeeeeeze, but I don't know if I'm supposed to go back to feeling completely normal afterwards?

Gerry I wouldn't say a cleaning rota is awful, no. There are two angles to consider. One is the practical: if you drawing up a rota means he'll crack on and get things done without further input from you, then grand, your life will be easier and less stressful. Then there's the theoretical side of things: why has he got no housework initiative? If you weren't there would the house collapse around him, or would he learn to get things done in a timely fashion? If he's struggling to keep up with his side of the housework and would benefit from a rota, why isn't he drawing one up? As women we're expected to take the role of household manager; by being in charge of the rota you retain ultimate responsibility for everything on that rota (if you don't write it down, it doesn't get done). Which is fine if you want to be the household manager. If you don't want to be, then it sucks.

I view it as similar to parenting, in that both parties need to be aware of and capable of doing the basics. Just as you both need to be competent with DD, you both need to be competent around the house, so that if one of you isn't available the other can pick up the slack (without a lengthy list of written instructions).

What's going to happen in future when it becomes apparent that new things need adding to the rota? Circumstances change, after all, older children present new chores, if you have another that'll be a whole heap of extra chores. Is he going to notice the need for an alteration in the rota and discuss it with you? Or is it going to be left to you to notice and make the necessary changes?

Also, I'm not for a moment suggesting DH is doing this consciously and deliberately, but no housework initiative? Sounds like code for can't be arsed, better things to do, someone else will pick up the slack. If I'd been brought up in a world in which men ran around doing all the housework and organising of daily family life while women pottered about and read the papers and played golf, I'm pretty sure I'd have no housework initiative either. Because subconsciously I'd know that if I just didn't let the chores register in my conscious mind, someone else would do them soon enough, and so they would ultimately be Not My Problem. Are girl babies born with a special radar for mess that boys lack? Of course not. Anyone can learn how to keep a house running relatively smoothly, it's not particularly difficult (or I wouldn't be able to do it ), but you have to want to.

That got long, sorry!

Still musing on the same topic, forgive me rambling!

When DD was born, it was very obvious to me that she was my responsibility. If she was crying, I couldn't ignore her and wait for someone else to see what she needed. If her nappy needed changing, I couldn't just wait around for the shit-fairy to sort it, I had to do it myself. If she needed clean sleepsuits, the washing machine wasn't going to turn itself on, I'd have to do it. Having her made a very big difference to me in that regard. It really made me realise that, within these walls, I am responsible for everything, and she needs me to be at least halfway good at it.

Unfortunately, this means that when the man had a similar realisation about just how much his child needs him, there was already someone around who would change a nappy, get up in the night, sacrifice own needs and wants for the baby, and so on. So he's still got that sod it, someone else will do it mentality.

Rainbow well done on the weight loss. I like the idea of keeping treats for out of the house, it seems very sensible! Were you also doing couch 2 5K? How's that going?

Gerry the rota makes me shudder a bit but only because I know I'd never be able to stick to one, and feel someone affronted if I were presented one in my own home. However I guess that you've resorted to it through lack of any real action on his part, so it's likely a much-deserved kick up the bum to him. I've not experienced any pelvic floor issues when running but I think the link to the MuTu exercises Doli mentioned a couple of months ago could help you. They focus on your core, which includes your pelvic floor, and work the whole lot as there's no point only doing kegels apparently. link here

Me again. The old wine lover with a, erm, sore arse. Name changed just cos.

Gerry if a rota is what it takes for him to step up, then I'd say it is way better than asking, which is usually construed as nagging.

Stormy I'd question the assertion that men are just lazy because they know someone else will do it. I'm of the opinion some just aren't bothered about dirt. DH proved this point admirably when we separated. I moved out, he was in the house. When, after quite a few weeks I ventured back in to get the place ready to sell I was hit first by the smell and second by the dirt. He'd given the dogs the run of the place, but not bathed or groomed them. They are outdoor dogs so the central heating had caused them to moult. Liberally. Everywhere. That was just the dog related side of things. His mess was secondary but no less impressive. The point being he is actually happy to live like that . Me, I'm a neat freak. Our compromise is a cleaner.

It's not all bad though, as dad's go DH is a good un. Aside from a slight paranoia about cleaning girl bits properly he'll parent without prompting, and when it comes to toddler friendly play he's the toddle's favourite partner in crime.

Yummy how's Toddleyum this evening?

Potty training? Hell no. We're still at the stage where she likes a bit of private space, so can everyone leave the room please, and come back when the grunts stop. I'm assuming that will make her either very easy to potty train, as she gives obvious signals, or very difficult in that she prefers an empty room. For now though I'm parking the issue.

Pelvic floors - if it feels wrong after running, don't run. Same with any exercise really, if something feels wrong don't stress it as it'll end in tears. Seated rather than the upright bike in the gym, or swimming might be better aerobic options for now.

Oh damn. DH has just beaten my Dolitoddle bedtime settle record. 9.05pm, and she's asleep. Tomorrow I'm going for 9pm. Wish me luck

Well hello there old sore arse . I think I've spied you there, in hand, under your cunning disguise.

you talking to me?

Stormy I'm trying to use the app and I hate it. Bleuch.

Gerry I'm pro rota. I completely see Stormy's point and in an ideal world she's right but lets face it, none of us are perfect. DH is a lazy bugger that would rather avoid cleaning and tidying and likes to ignore it in the hope I do it. I like to avoid cooking when I can't be arsed to and instead say I'm happy to only eat biscuits knowing he'll step up and cook a meal. It's swings and roundabouts. I think a rota sets out what you have compromised on that definitely needs doing, split it fairly and takes away a constant niggling argument but only as long as he agrees with it. It doesn't matter who drew it up just that you're in it together.

As for the pelvic floor, spend the next couple of weeks to a month devoting yourself to PF exercises. 10 minutes, three times a day. A mixture of quick pull up/let go and holding for 10secs. It's so bloody worth it if it cuts your risk of problems that have a huge affect on quality of life. Try running again after this and see how you get on.

Potty training is a far away concept for us. As with everyone else, I talk to her about it and tell her she's having a wee when I see her do one on the bathroom floor during nappy off, pre-bath time and when I see her doing a poo in her nappy but I plan on waiting until she tells me she's ready or hits 2 and a half. I admire those of you putting the work here but I'm more of the lazy school of parenting!

Doli excellent news on the earlier bedtimes. Enjoy your evenings!

Yummy it sounds like a gastro bug and fingers crossed it's passing already and you're all on the mend. Did you manage to catch a wee?

You see, with DH I don't think it's a boy v girl issue (sorry to have minimised your beautifully eloquent musings into such simplistic terms stormy) more that I am a Doer and DH is a Do It In A Minute kind of person. In that situation the Doer has usually Done before the other one gets there. And yes, he doesn't really see mess and dirt like I do. Before I moved in, he lived in actual squalor (think 3 month old burnt pizza still sitting in the oven) so the fact that he's pretty nifty with a Hoover now is an achievement. But he's a terrible procrastinator, so, for example, he'll say "I'll sort the kitchen", but he'll then fall asleep on the sofa. So 2 hours later when he eventually gets to it he's all dozy and only does half, or I get grumpy because he could have had time to load and unload the dishwasher if he'd just got on with it. And yes that's probably partly because he knows I'll do it, but it's also partly because I DO just do it... The rota thing is an attempt to give him some cringy teacher management speak ownership over tasks instead of me just nagging him all the time.

Maybe we'll just get a cleaner

Betty! You do one of the things that drives me the most mad about DH! I say "I'd like you to help with the cooking sometimes" he says "fine, as long as you're happy with beans on toast every night". Don't do that! I don't want to think of you as annoying! It's my pet hate because it feels like a weapon!

Um, splashy, if you're who I think you are, I'm not sure how I feel about the nc... Coped ok with everyone else's, but I just don't feel like I know you anymore.

That's the thing with principles. They're all very well and good in an ideal world, but they're useless unless you can find a way to make them mesh with reality. And how we choose to do that will be different for each of us.

doli I fully agree, there are some people who just don't care. Until two years ago I was one of them! There are interesting angles to that too, though. If you have visitors, and your house is a bit of a mess, and they're horrible judgeypants visitors, it's usually going to be you they're judging for the state of the place, not DH, because the home is traditionally seen as the woman's responsibility. It's easier for men to just not care about how clean the house is, because there's less pressure on them to maintain a lovely home in the first place. When men don't care, they have the weight of cultural expectation behind them. When women don't care, we do so against the weight of cultural expectation. And I'm rambling again. Anyway, if a cleaner is the compromise that works for you both, then that is excellent (and I am totally jealous).

Meanwhile, in Fartypants Land, headbutting is the greatest thing ever. Or at least, the greatest way of expressing frustration and rage. Several times now, she's tried to fiddle with the gas thingies on the hob, and I've told her no! in my best Stern Mummy voice, and in her anger at being thwarted she's headbutted the oven door. Which I keep a towel hanging over, lest she burn herself. Evidently the towel served to make the headbutt unsatisfyingly padded, because she stepped sideways, gave me a look of utter disgust, and headbutted the cupboard instead. And then cried because it hurt. I do occasionally wonder if she's entirely right in the head...

Head butting is big here too stormy. Except here, it is HILARIOUS. At least it is hilarious the first 9 times. The 10th time it hurts, and we have tears too. No sense no feeling?!?

Quite Gerry. I'm not sure who that interloper was...

Mess here is dealt with efficiently by both of us, when we are in the mood to deal with it. That doesn't mean a equal share because I am at home all the time. It has to be neat for me to get any work done, and I cannot abide waking up to a mucky kitchen so that always gets done before bed. But dp has been nagged enough to always been quite a clean person, and thanks to his asthma it's best if the place doesn't get too dusty. So that job falls to him by default. We genuinely seem to have gotten through the nagging stage sans rota, but I do suspect mil had a word. The way I see it, it all needs doing. Easier to do a bit everyday. The way dp sees it, he's out the house 50 hours a week for our benefit. He usually does bath time and doesn't want to clean at 7pm (fair does). So the compromise is he does his fair share at the week end. I don't trust him with laundry whatsoever

And silly insomnia. I've gotten used to a set amount of sleep. Now I've had it I seem to be wide awake. Ds hasn't made a peep. The app is growing on me.

Plonk we also had a 4.45 start not by choice though!!
Agh splashy I don't know who you are??!!

We argue about housework too. But DH does about 70% or more of cooking, always does bath time, and all DIY, and will clean the bathroom/kitchen if nagged. Could def be worse.

I need to keep up better. gerry hope you're ok
still think you're very tall eco how are you?

How's the poorly DS something ? or yummy?

Ooh ps doli good work on the bedtime. It'll be 8pm before you know it but then what will you do with all that extra time in the evening??!!

Shattered do you now have to go and do a full day's work after a 4.45 wake up? Bless you. And I think I might know who splashy is. I'll give you a clue....she's not splashy anymore (psst, over here).

Yummy any update? Hope he's ok and keeping water down.

Yes eco, where in blazing buggery are you?!

I managed to get back off to sleep. DS had a fantastic night and didn't make a peep from going down at 7pm until 6.50 am. I don't think that's ever happened before. And he's popped another tooth out without making a fuss. I can only assume fussiness since March has been illness/wonder week related.

I've just dropped him at nursery and been told his keyworker has moved on to another part of the nursery. I feel inordinately sad, and I know IABU. I really liked her, and can only hope he stays at the nursery long enough to move into the other bit she's in, but I doubt that's going to happen. The new one seems nice enough but I've only spoken to her a few times, and it feels like I'm dropping him at nursery for the first time all over again. Before having DS I would've just thought 'get a grip, he's fine' because she's qualified, but for the first time I do not know the person I'm leaving to care for my pfb. I know I'm rather late to this party, having been quite laissez-faire until now.

Can someone hand me a grip?!

On a lighter note, I dreamt that Something got 7 A's in her GCSEs. So well done, that girl.

I think I might be in the minority here but...DP does pretty much everything housework and cooking-wise, often to a fault which I know doesn't sound like a fault but when Sunday comes and he's excited to "spend the day cleaning the whole house together...no With the exception of laundry, ironing and the majority of the washing up, he pretty much does it all. I don't mean that I'm a slacker and don't do anything, don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly adequate when it comes to housework and will do it, but he seems to enjoy it so I don't quabble. It does mean that, aside from playtime (because daddy is the bestest playmate ever in the world ever), I do all ToddleSome related things. That can get quite overbearing sometimes but it's a balance that seems to work for us. And I'd much rather cuddle, play, do bathtime and food times, than scrub floors

gerry if a rota works for you, then that can surely only be a good thing? I might mention it to DSis actually because BIL is a pile pots in a sink of dirty water, mountains of damp clothes on top of the tumble dryer, sweep dirt into a corner then trample through it, kind of guy. That's where most of their arguments come from and I do feel really bad for her to see her struggle with family, work and house all on her own. So it's really good that you're finding solutions!

shattered it's ToddleYum who isn't feeling very well. But yes, yummy how's he getting on?

splashy get thee gone, you stranger

doli great news on the earlier bedtime, there's a whole new world of evening on your horizon!

stormy headbutting is great fun here. So fun actually, that DS likes to sit in front of the fire place and softly knock his head back onto the sticky-out corner bit much to mummy's horror but he seems to like it. I agree with gerry on the no sense no feeling. That's become our mantra.

betty I totally thought you said pro-rata and I was trying for ages to work out how that had anything to do with anything. Maybe I should go back to bed?

But instead I'll get coffee on a drip and sit at work pretending to...work. Happy Thirsty Thursday all!

I know something's only a bopper, but I didn't realise she was young enough for GCSEs!

4.45 is criminal. My sympathies. DD was asleep by quarter to eight (after the usual post bedtime great big shit). Not a peep until 7.30. And she must've gone back to sleep, because I drifted off again and she woke me at 8.30. Feel free to send stabby thoughts in my direction, I'm well rested enough to take them.