November 2012 - Walking or not walking, talking or not talking, any other skillz?

[StuntNun]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/2000561-November-2012-The-exciting-all-new-all-singing-all-dancing-fred

We have quite a range of ages and they each develop at their own rates... so what can your toddler do?

fatima did you get the extended warranty on M too?

I did not go for the extended warranty on my c max, I thought it was expensive, but if I were you I would be phoning them today with your concerns as you don't want to leave it too long.

Not sure I really wanted to wake up to one of my old colleagues showing us the ins and outs of the business on BBC Breakfast! We laughed they always pick a woman from the relevant area to do the publicity stuff.

Well he didn't wake between 3 and 4 but I think we saw every other hour. He woke six times before 11 then two or three more times in the wee hours, then a couple of times between 5 and 6 before getting up for the day at 6:15. I honestly don't know how I would tell the difference between normal sleep and sleep regression at this point. He had Calpol at 11 PR and again at 5. DH is away to China today so I'm just not quite sure how I'm going to manage this week. No doubt DS1 will be difficult too as his behaviour always goes even more to pot when DH is away. I am contemplating cry it out, i.e. just putting him to bed then not going in again until the morning. I had been trying to deal with his evident separation anxiety by going in to him so that he's reassured but the sleep problems are too serious for that now. Poor DH has had broken sleep since his last trip, now he has to cope with travelling to China and business meetings on far too little sleep. As for the milk issue, I'll try follow on milk tonight but certainly last night's sleep was on the worse side of normal. I was hoping to wean J in May, not sure what to do now if he can't have regular milk.

So sorry you had another bad night stunt . I hope you find a solution

LO is waking up more often at the moment too.

Hugs stunt sounds rough.

YW how was nursery drop off? Mine was appalling. We had a crap night and S woke really early. He's now exhausted and tearful/tantrumy. Dropped him in his room and he started sobbing and reaching back for me. Whizzed DD up to her room, which always involves a lengthy wee stop, and snuck back to S's room. Normally at this point he's in the thick of play. He was curled up on someone's lap, sobbing so hard he was shaking. They will put him down for a nap and he will wake up happy but .

Cows milk v follow on milk v interesting. S has 8oz cows milk before bed. Might get a carton and try it out and see if there is a difference.

Happy Monday, quiche!

Stunt I am so sorry

After reading everything on here and some advice from VQ I tried half cm/ half follow on as he only has one 12oz bottle at bed and that's it now. Was feeling like maybe contributing with teeth etc to awful sleep. Last night was a success so will continue my experiment tonight.

Anyway long and short of it thanks quiche for your advice x

Oh stunt that sounds rough - you have my sympathies.

zamboni hugs - that must be so hard to leave LO at nursery upset. As you say he will nap and wake up fine. But hugs, because it must be distressing for you.

I feel like we have been going through a sleep regression here lately. But fairly sure there isn't meant to be a 15 month one. Maybe we need to add that one to the books!

Oh dear stunt anything is worth a try. Will be thinking of you this week.

Stunt I agree anything is worth a try as long as you're sure he's not in pain. I find it so hard if bad sleep corresponds with DH working abroad and I've only got one to worry about. I wouldn't judge the milk change on one night though - we were always advised to look at a change after three weeks as one day is too quick for the proteins to leave their gut.

Zamboni I don't drop him off til 9.30 (we're crap at rushed mornings!!!) but he's been so clingy already today it's going to be bad. Given it seems to be separation anxiety I think I'm only going to put him in for a half day on Wednesday as isn't more time with them meant to reassure them and make it pass quicker? Or is that outdated thinking? My heart says if he needs to be close for a while and my freelancing let's me be flexible, maybe I should?

Thanks for the sympathy, it means a lot to me. I'm fortunate to have the option to go back to exclusively breastfeeding if using the follow on milk reveals a problem with cows milk, I'll just have to put off being able to eat cake eggs for a little while longer.

yw IME once they settle at nursery going and getting them earlier than usual unsettles them. Unless he is spending the morning sobbing and in real distress I'd be inclined to not change the routine. You could play it by ear and ask them to phone and update you mid morning.

I hate to use the word manipulative for babies, but our babies are getting to an age where they can consciously link cause and effect as well. It's worth bearing in mind when they have tantrums. It sounds cruel but a hug, kiss and an I love you and will be back at 5, or whenever, and absolute confidence and a big grin as you hand them over shows them you have nothing to worry about, so neither do they. They pick up when we weaken and will use it to their advantage. Manipulation is too strong a word but this is an age where we have to be reassuring, jolly hockey sticks and strong if we want their independence to grow.

It's a phase but I have no doubt you are reassuring him of your love all the time. Toddler tantrumming will be hitting us with full force in the next 6 months, and kindly, reassuringly dealing with separation anxiety is good preparation.

Sorry if that sounded harsh. I just think that in my case leaving them with a smile and coming back when you say you will is the least unsettling but you have, as ever, to do as you think right.

sorry stunt

yw I agree with pr. I think keeping them in the set routine is good for them as they know what to expect. If he's happy at nursery once he's settled then I think picking him up early will do more harm than good. Hope it goes ok.

My bro in law and his sis are on pointless tonight. They are also on tomorrow so that shows you how well they do first time round

It wasn't harsh PR, it is harder for first time mums to deal with issues such as separation anxiety and tantrums because with your first child you don't have the advantage of the sense of perspective that you have with subsequent children. I'm sure I spent overly long reassuring DS1 an nursery drop offs. J just gets a cuddle and a bye bye then I pass him to the CM and make a quick exit. Similarly with toddler tantrums, standing over them and chuckling at their silly behaviour is much more effective than stressily trying to soothe them when realistically you can't soothe them because they're caught up in an emotional maelstrom at being denied the shiny dangerous thing they want so badly.

It is hard walking away from a tantrum though - they look at us so accusingly :o

I never really got the chance to try and soothe DD1 as once she was at the tantrum phase LO's arrival was imminent and I dealt with needs before whims. I think both girls will only ever remember being ignored in favour of the other one and will resent me, writing vicious diary entries at about 12 saying "mum always looked after my sister more than me I hateher" and leave them out so I can find them and chortle feel guilty. No no I never felt squashed in the middle and resentful of my elder and younger siblings oh no never :o

Yeh, I definitely subscribe to jolly hockey sticks too, within reason. O definitely knows how to play the game or he thinks he does he has obviously seen big siblings and cousins doing it.

It's a battle with our instincts though. DD1 never went through separation anxiety but you'll remember it took 7 weeks for LO to settle into ft nursery. It was hard but the nursery workers chivvied me into a hug and dump routine and we got there in the end.

PR I was going to say the same. After a long hard settling in period we always go for jolly hockey sticks and no early pick ups unless necessary. They give him plenty of cuddles and it upsets him more if his routine is changed more than mummy being there.

Ah now chortling in the face of tantrums I don't find hard at all - he's been throwing proper beat his fists on the floor, wail to the heavens tantrums since Christmas! And I'm all for jolly hockeysticks when he falls over or has a hissy fit over some dangerous contraband / being removed from climbing on something dangerous. But I was reading Oliver James this weekend and the psychology seems to suggest it might just get him through separation anxiety easier and quicker by taking it seriously and not needlessly leaving him if I don't actually need to? Given he only goes to nursery twice a week, its not as if he's in a day to day routine with it anyway? I'm going to go away at the end of the month for a few days when I wean him and would rather he was in a confident place before I go as me not being there for a few days is going to be a real shock - but sadly I don't think we'll be able to wean without it! He won't settle for his Dad if he knows that me (or more honestly!!! the boobs) are in the house. He now understands the concept of 'all gone' so he's going to learn that 'boob is all gone' at the end of the month.

I should say that at playgroup he's off all over the hall playing happily and only comes back occasionally to check in - or looks over with a smile for a wave so he's not really insecure, but he has been vair clingy this last fortnight and I'd like to help him through it as quick as possible.

If he's generally happy at nursery I wouldn't mess with those two days to reassure him. Two days isn't very much and if you disrupt that you might find he doesn't want to go at all and the situation will get harder to manage. I get your points though - how about finding a new slot each day for a different bonding moment? Could be an extra story before dinner or five minutes just you and him with a specific toy, or something new on your dog walks. Something you both look forward to that he will find your presence comforting, and which can maybe in the long term kind of make up for stopping bf'ing. Something that you can continue once you're back from your trip away and once the baby arrives - I can't pretend that won't be very unsettling for him and you will really really want those two days at nursery once you're heavily pregnant or with the newborn.

I think different parenting techniques and psychologists have different ways of approaching it though and you have to deal with it in the way you feel comfortable, as you know him best. Isn't Oliver James the Lovebombing and How not to fuck them up bloke? Some of his stuff makes perfect sense but there's a fair bit of controversy around him, like most pop psychologists making themselves rich off parents' backs . But he's going to rub me up the wrong way as I think he is pretty unsympathetic of daycare in general and, as you well know, I think daycare is great for many kids especially my own :o

R's tantrums so far have all been tiredness related, so walking away wouldn't work while cuddles do. He does have to wait while I get things ready for him, usually getting my shoes on and the sling ready to go home! I'm hardening my heart in readiness for full meltdown mode to kick in. I don't know how I'd deal with the nursery issue, he only gets left with family on rare occasions and he knows that's fun because they do whatever he wants to do

Spent the morning in the "garden" on the patio looks like we'll have raspberries and strawberries, possibly a few potatoes (might put some more in if the pound shop have them in stock) and there's new growth on my plum tree in it's big pot I have yet to get any plums but am very proud to have kept it alive for 4 years now. It only ever gets growth at the bottom though so I might prune it and have a medium sized bonsai plum R had a lovely time stamping in puddles, running around with the broom and some flower pots while I planted ready grown primulas outside the front door and sunflower seeds in my little poly tunnel - I'm going to give those to people instead of Easter eggs and say R did it

Good luck with trying the toddler milk everyone.

We use it in our house only because he was on cow and gate baby milk and we just followed on (as the adverts say). (sucker for an advert) Not sure when I'll brave cows milk, possibly once all the teeth are in and eating improves.

little question: baby goes to jo jingles (has been for 6 months). I don't doubt he enjoys it but he doesn't play with the instruments and doesn't sit down (at all).

I spend 40 minutes running full pelt after him - encouraging him back to his spot etc... also if other babies have snacks, drinks then he automatically assumes they are for him so I have to be on the ball and encourage him back to his spot and have his own drink and snack ready for him. This annoys me because he doesn't need a drink or a snack for a 40 min class but because all the other babies do it he wants it too.

He also greets other children by giving them a mini shove in the back or front and grinning. I promise its such a light little shove but I notice that no other baby does that so again I'm on hand to direct him and say try waving and waiting (no shoving) he also sort of shoves in between other mums who are chatting - its like he doesn't notice or care they are there (he just wants passed and that's that).

I'm thinking is this ok? probably not. I'm thinking its better to have him in a less intense environment (more free flow play). Are any other babies on here - full on rough and tumble types?

I'm thinking, he's only 15 months, he has his whole life to sit and be quiet and concentrate - why feel stressed and upset at this class? Or should I carry on going in the hope that he'll calm down and start to sit and take part in the class.

I don't know about the lovebombing - sounds like something from Ann Summers . I've been reading Affluenza - looking at why levels of societal happiness are lowest in English speaking Anglo Saxon societies but highest in the Nordic countries (the key trends in his argument being: we are over advertised at (especially as children), we are worked to death and constantly competing with the Joneses because of rising asset prices rather than stable asset price regimes (i.e. the Daily Mail's 'OMG isn't it great - house prices are rising again - oh shit I can't afford a house' madness), our society has replaced a sense of community and shared purpose / trust with competition and materialism, and yes he's not keen on daycare before two because of its impact on separation anxiety and his contention that parents who don't see their kids often overcompensate by replacing their time and attention with material goods which isn't good for kids mental health.

I don't want to agree with his comments about childcare because frankly most folks don't have the choice and I think there is enough shit in the media out there to make us feel guilty whether you stay at home or go to work - women can't seem to win. I don't know what the evidence is about childcare before two. My gut feel is that for centuries babies have probably been looked after by grandma whilst Mum went to work in the field so I doubt it's a new phenomena. But I can see that compensating a lack of time with nice things isn't good for kids - I think we all probably now a few horrors at baby groups who are kitted out in the best of Boden who would probably benefit from more hugs, the occasional 'no' and lots less stuff. I just want to think of ways of boosting him before I go as it is going to be a big change. Yet I don't want to spoil him because I feel guilty? PR I think your idea of thinking of new bonding activities for me and him is excellent. Especially things we can continue when his routine gets knocked on its ass and shaken upside down by the arrival of a sibling.

I know I'm probably overthinking this. My sister weaned her son literally overnight when his sister arrived and she was spending most of her days in the NICU - and he coped so stoically with it - but I'd rather do it early in the pregnancy to avoid ending up in the NICU at all if it can be helped!!! Or to avoid him relating the end of BF with a sibling and resenting them for it. I mean he is likely to resent number two anyway isn't he? Though he really is a big baby fan at the moment - may it stay that way!!!!!

Fiat Jonas spent our only two taster sessions at Jo Jingles trying to get in the lady's handbag. If he's more into physical stuff why not try him at a softplay or baby gymnastics session where he can climb and run to his heart's content if you want him in a formal class? I found Jo Jingles was too saccharin for this grumpy old cynic and I was a bit chuffed that J didn't like it.... .