November 2012 - Walking or not walking, talking or not talking, any other skillz?

[StuntNun]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/2000561-November-2012-The-exciting-all-new-all-singing-all-dancing-fred

We have quite a range of ages and they each develop at their own rates... so what can your toddler do?

compensating a lack of time with nice things isn't good for kids - I think we all probably now a few horrors at baby groups who are kitted out in the best of Boden who would probably benefit from more hugs, the occasional 'no' and lots less stuff.

Our vicar's wife was saying exactly that about some of the little horrors darlings she works with in a local private school IMO there's nothing wrong with decent childcare, after all it's essential in most parents' lives; it's the frantic buying of treats and busyness getting to activities that replace proper quality time that can fuck kids up.

Fiat that sounds like my idea of hell. WTF are they doing expecting mobile babies to sit down and listen?! I'd save my money and go to the park, or a local free playing toddler group tbh.

Thank you ladies. I feel better. I've been fighting with myself over this, I guess because we paid for the 3 months I felt we should see it through to the end. When we first started going he had just begun to toddle so it was all very easy going but he's on his feet now and LOVES it. He's such a happy, full of fun little man. He doesn't need 40 mins of me on his tail when we should be having fun together. I think either no set classes or a gym class would be ideal where he can be encouraged to climb/jump/run.

I think it is natural to somehow compensate for the time when you are apart from your children but he is probabaly right that society makes us think we are failures if we don't show our love via material stuff. I had forgotten that he had written stuff linking the social economy to psychology-that must be quite interesting. In our house, other than the odd treat, toys are for birthdays and Christmas and new clothes are on a needs basis. I might be stingy but I prefer to spoil children with cuddles and simple outings than with more stuff to get eaten by the dog or chucked out in one of my nesting frenzies . But I am very tactile. That won't stop me from being strict about tantrums and going to nursery and school though, as I know they get more out of it than being home with me and are confident that I am there for them. I'm lucky to have the choice and grateful that I do have the choice, but quite sure it is the right one.

I think of course that you are right to wean him sooner rather than later. You'd be surprised at the little things that will unsettle him when baby arrives and boob jealousy would be hard to handle. I know some mothers successfully tandem feed babies and toddlers but I doubt that would be for everyone, and you do need to take it as easy as you can for yourself with your risks. But it will all be worth it - I had massive guilt re DD1 right through my pregnancy with LO, and I think it didn't go away for a good while - basically when DD1 realised her little sister could be good fun. But they still have their moments.

There were things though that I thought would cause problems and didn't. I expected DD1 to be jealous of baby cuddles and naps on my knees. She really wasn't fussed, in fact made the most of the time to create a big mess safe in the knowledge that I wouldn't say anything :o She seemed to get that the baby needed cuddles, but jumped right up for one the moment I was free. It's normal to overthink it - it seems so huge and weforget that they are adaptable little people not set in their ways like we are. So it will be a huge change but he'll deal with it, probably better than if there had been a slightly bigger age gap.

I've had "Siblings Without Rivalry" recommended to me - anyone read it? Any good?

I'm chatty today. Laptop is open and I should be translating. Can you tell?

fiat mine would be the same. DD1 and LO sit down for structured activities at nursery because the other kids do and it is expected of them, but if I were to take them to any sit down thing not involving food they would cause havoc. If you really did want to continue I suppose you could wear him out beforehand but I doubt he would enjoy it as much as if he was bright and alert.

I haven't bothered with any sit down and listen groups with any of my youngest three. It does depend on the child and I suspect that Ds1 would be great at it but I think free flow play, with a little bit of sit down and listen is fine. They are still learning loads about how to behave but to achieve it is within their reach.

I am reading Calmer, Easier, Happier Parenting , Noël Janis-Norton which is brilliant for kids for. The age of three, it is techniques that make sense and can be used in Any situation. I am using it bit by bit and I love it. I don't have to nag and shout.

PR I'm freelancing too. Hence I'm on here. A lot. Not that my current project is a bit dull.... nooooooooo..... but you guys are much more fun. Oh god I can probably never be an employee again can I? I'd get kicked out on my arse for misuse of internet before the end of day one!

Soph I'm loving the sound of that book. I'm a sweary ranter by nature but don't really want to be a ranter at my kids. Calm and happy sounds good.

I run my music class as a free flow thing, the adults sit and chat and the babies lie, sit or run around (depending on age) with toys. Older ones get to help choose which book, and they are all encouraged to open flaps, push noisy buttons etc. I'd be a bit worried if a child aged over 1 was sitting nicely to listen, I like them to get active and experience the world!

thanks pr You're right, he wouldn't enjoy it as much if he'd already had his puppy run for the day. He gets 1 hour of full running per day but he doesn't have endless energy. After an hours activity he's more or less done. I think structured sitting down classes are not for us yet. Jo Jingles just happened to be close by and take place on my day off. I also fell into the trap of thinking well we're booked up and paid, we'll see it through rather than seeing if it really suited an active baby

Thanks PP too. I guess I was getting worried that maybe he was an extra busy boy, I need to remember that he's still really a baby.

At toddler group this morning, O was the only one in the group not sitting in the circle listening to the stories and singing the songs. He was busy making his way round the group - walking on his knees - trying to make eye contact with everyone and making sure they were watching him. Then he busied himself taking all the books off the shelves and passing them to people

Classic chasing May the babies always feel that they are this special

Yes yw I worry that if ever I go back to the office I will not have time to read the paper, keep up with facebook and chat on here. And other than today I don't feel I actually spend too much time online.

Lunchtime! Woot!

Quick reflection. Pal of mine, fellow educationalists and specialist in pastoral care said to me whilst reeling off all the clubs and activities her children went to in every night of the week "it is such a rush and completely exhausting. We have no family life at all. . . But it is so important!" IMHO there is nothing wrong with a bit of just chilling. Just family time can't be time wasted, surely?

If a good childhood involves lots of classes - then I must have had a shit one. My Mum had twins and making it out of the house was an achievement some days! I did classes with J earlier on I think possibly when I was feeling insecure about parenting and just needed to get out of the house but now I think we are really happy just pottering together. I find it easier to parent out and about but I think he also gets a lot out of just helping me cook tea, plant the garden, do the washing or (shhhhh don't tell anyone!) just sitting and playing quietly by himself. I think family life shouldn't be a big stressy rush - that's what work is for .

Pennie interesting. Makes me wonder if I should have put J with a CM? I just don't know any good ones here. He still bawls at drop off at least once a week even if it only lasts ten seconds its not very nice. And I can't help but think its not a good sign. He loves it and seems very happy when I get him but I wish he'd just toddle off and play rather than want me to stay.

calmer easier happier parenting

I've ordered it and my sister has already threatened to steal borrow it. I think she has found herself much more shouty at the kids since her move and break up and she thought it sounded perfect. Ta for the recommendation!

When we were growing up there weren't the choices of classes available that we have now and I'm doing ok realitivley speaking. I have a couple of friends whose children are in at least one class a day be it ballet, tennis, drama etc. Plus one is at school and the other at pre school. One mother is so warn out that her and her girl are constantly ill. The other is an only child and the mum has guilt for not providing her with a sibling (through choice, not fertility issues). Now I like to keep busy and we do a couple of classes a week but that is my choice. I also equally like to have days dossing round the house/garden like today. I think a balance is important but if I had to choose between classes or family time I think it would be family time all the way. What's the point in having kids otherwise?

Just booked tickets for the RSC production of Wolf Hall and Bring up the Bodies wonder if I will actually get round to reading them before I see the plays.

Constant activities and this need to give children something to do all the time is new. I think when I was young my extra curricular activities were related to swimming classes once or twice a week, until I was 11, then horseriding every fortnight for the next few years. Other kids did guiding and scounts and football etc but I don't know anyone who wasn't free to play out most evenings of the week. Here extra curricular activities up til the end of the primary years are all on a Wednesday afternoon and Saturday morning. Then if you get good at something I suppose you take it further and it takes up more time.

But the whole helicoptering something different every day of the week thing that a lot of people on MN seem to do sounds like madness. And so expensive. Boredom and figuring stuff out to do for themselves is good for kids.

I do appreciate though that I grew up in a safe rural area, and am bringing my kids up in safe rural areas - I guess in the city you can't just shove the kids outside in the morning and not hear from them again until nightfall.

Back to the CM/nursery debate I personally have better experience of nurseries than CMs but I did have an awful experience with a CM who had a good reputation, so I am very biased. yw LO still occasionally cries when I leave her in the morning. Apparently they all do from time to time - J crying when you drop him off may not be a good sign but I would look for other bad signs before actually worrying about it iyswim. It is still the only way they have of effectively expressing themselves. Once they start speaking and understanding better the amount of time crying seems to go down dramatically thank God .

I find all the actual psychology behind childrearing quite interesting but am conscious of the fact that it is very easy to project adult emotions on to our children that they just don't have yet, and therefore read potential problems which might not really exist. I am very sceptical about a lot of the stuff out there in fact - it seems to create more angst than it resolves in many ways. I devour as much as I can of it but dose it with a huge pinch of salt. There's nothing as guilt inducing as parenting and I don't need books and journalists giving me reasons for more guilt.

fiat You pretty much described DD1. she would never sit, listen, pay attention etc. She spent the whole time running around anywhere she shouldn't. Have you seen/heard of Tumble Tots. It was ace for DD1. Lots of climbing, singing, noise but sort of structured too so they eventually learn to take turns, help others etc.

I'm going to shut up now I am even boring myself. I really hate the way that parenting has turned into some kind of huge billion quid industry. It makes me want to hide me and my kids away from the world. I had to bite my tongue the other day when I heard DD1's morning activity was playing with Barbies. I nearly choked I was trying so hard not to open my mouth. Am all for plastic tat but Barbies! For 2yo! Could they not play with generic nameless dolls?

I had to buy gendered pink lego for a cousin's daughter's birthday. It was the only thing on her list. I got her the girl's football lesson set

I am still that gendered pink lego exists. I hardly ever go in to toy shops and keep my head down when I do go in for something specific so I tend to miss the vast areas of pink.

I learnt with the classes that like YW I felt I had to do them all as it got us out but actually I don't need to.

We go swimming each week and tumble tots as I have no playgroup locally that isn't very church orientated ( no offense to anyone but they do hymns and prayers at it and I was expecting nursery rhymes and play and was made to feel an outsider as I don't attend the church)

PR you're not boring. You keep me sane on my stuck at my desk freelancing days. You keep me out of the fridge.