November 2012 - The first fearless steps and the rest of us hoping our babies remain stationary for a bit longer

[StuntNun]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/1833979-November-2012-Teeth-Dont-talk-to-us-about-teeth

(((Kyz))) we're here if you want to talk.. How is your brother? xx

I love minstrels. Can't get them here.

pig your GP sounds a tad - I can't imagine you should go to work unless you are sure it is no longer contagious.

chasing when I was trying to put on weight I was always advised to eat carbs and exercise more to bulk up.

((((kyz)))) hope you're ok lovely. I've missed you xx

Big cuddles kyz. Xx

Can someone bitchslap me and remove the Boden catalogue from my clammy paws and remind me that I should be saving my pennies for a wood burner and redecorating the lounge!!??

Ginger, Pennie if you ever want anything sent from home just shout. Having lived in Finland, South Africa and Hong Kong and pined for comfort foods from home I'm happy to help. Seriously put your orders in......

Pennie go to a supermarket and go my local one in HK had a live fish tank, sold cheese and wine at hyper-inflationary prices and had the head and neck of the bird attached to the chicken and duck breast packs. I also bought a brand of shampoo in Chinglish entitled 'As silk slippery shampoo' . What industry are you in, I still have contacts in HK so could try to help re work if there's any crossover (I'm in environmental consultancy).

Sending love lovely Kyz xx

kyz Hugs. We are here when you need us x

Big squish kyz - sorry to hear things have been hard.

Ouch bplp :(

VQ that's lovely. DD1 and N have started playing together a bit and its so nice to see :)

Sainsburys does some lovely baby clothes - we have several owl adorned things from them.

at furry shark mm

Get thee to the docs apple ((hugs)) If you feel like you're sinking then get some help now. Is DP supportive?

And ((hugs)) to izzy too. A bedtime routine sounds like a good place to start. I do it pretty much as JJ said. It's mostly pretty quick now but can take 45 minutes sometimes - especially now she's discovered she can stand.

Snowball fights with foxes is a fab dream
DD1 talks in her sleep so I can tell you that 2 year olds dream about Mister Maker, and trains, but I also know that she argues with me even when she's asleep - the other night it was something about wanting to get onto the toilet herself She also says "no mummy" and "mine!" rather a lot :)

Just get the childminder det If she's letting you down already its unlikely to get better. Don't blame you for being raging.

Good luck for the interviews pidj and congrats on the extra hours :)

((Hug)) kyz hope you're ok.

Just had a wake up which required calpol and much head stroking and cuddles to soothe. He never wakes at this time. Most odd. Although he does have a tooth breaking through and nappy rash so could be teething. Also, he managed one step of forward crawling today and he is so close to cracking it so I think his mind is working overtime.

Morning

Thanks yw that's lovely of you

Detective it's a tricky one. I'd be pissed off too but you need to play it cool. I'm guessing she actually doesn't realise what a pita she is being?

pidj best of luck with your and DH's interview

My DH is reaching burnout at work I think :(

I don't know how to help.

chasing could have been any one of those reasons, or all three. I hope you had a good night.

Morning,

Oh no pr, poor dh.
Pidj good luck

All good over here. O mastered climbing/walking the stairs yesterday. Glad I live in a flat. We are off to try the local English playgroup, keeping my fingers cross it's a good one cause I'm desperate. For playgroup and for English conversation.

Revision also starts today, I'm dreading the exam.

Izzy controlled crying is actually an excellent way to encourage your LO's ability to fall asleep on their own but, and it's a big but, it has to be done at the right time. The parents have to be able to put up with some extra crying and it takes more work, and the child has to be at a point where they can go to sleep by themselves, e.g. they must feel secure and not have any health issues that might prevent them from sleeping. All my sleep training plans went awry last night because J is teething and was clearly unable to sleep on his own. So we ended up co-sleeping last night as he wanted a lot of reassurance feeds. It might be a step backwards but it's not the end of the world. You can't really start controlled crying unless your child is ready to start sleeping on their own.

The one thing there seems to be universal agreement on is that you need to have a bedtime routine. I certainly see the benefit of a solid bedtime routine, and a set bedtime, with my older two. I doubt I would get my 10yo to bed before 11-12 if he weren't 'programmed' to go to sleep by his bedtime routine. And he really needs his sleep as he's always tired in the morning. Even though you can't get J to a set bedtime you can still do certain things in the same order before he goes to sleep. The idea is that he has cues to tell him that it is sleep time. It doesn't have to be a lot of steps, even just PJs on and brushing his teeth is a routine if you do it before bedtime. That Troublesome Tots website takes a bit of reading but there are tips on routines, sorting daytime naps and other things you may need to do to encourage J to sleep. I can't believe that we ditched the dummies just like that. A week ago he would have had a dummy at the end of each feed (or he would stay latched on for ages), in the car to stop him crying, in his cot to help him sleep. I stopped using them and he doesn't even miss them, it was more of a crutch for the people looking after him than it was something he needed. So no more getting up in the night to put his dummy back in. He still wakes up but he doesn't actually need the dummy to go back to sleep any more.

I had to sort my J's sleep Izzy because I had reached breaking point, but also I think he had naturally reached a point where his sleep could be improved. But I'm certain it wouldn't have improved if I hadn't made the changes. I think if you want your J to be sleeping better before your op then it's going to take some intervention on your part. I think you need to make a plan of action. A lot of people on the quiche have had sleep issues, my DS1 actually had sleeping pills (melatonin)for a while when he was 8 or 9 because his sleep was so bad due to his ADHD and the medication he takes. We just used them for a couple of months to encourage him to sleep better then stopped them when his sleep habits had improved. I don't know whether melatonin is suitable for use in babies but it certainly helped DS1 reestablish good sleep habits. Anyway what I'm saying in a waffly way is that between us we have tries everything so why not put together a sleep training plan and ask everyone for feedback. Honestly the day J sleeps for you there will be cheers and celebrations quiche-wide.

So sorry for the mammoth post but I think we all agree that Izzy's sleep is a quiche priority!

I absolutely agree with stunt. I am more than happy to help izzy develop a sleep plan . We haven't had major sleep issues but had multiple night wakings until 7 months. O also only started sleeping in his cot for naps at 8 months so I have done a version of sleep training. I would 100% agree with a bedtime routine. If it helps, this is ours:

6pm - into bathroom for wash/bath and toothbrush. He has a bath every third night or so but we always start our night routine in the bathroom.

Then into bedroom for a wrestling match to get him into his PJ's and sleeping bag. Then teething gel and pre-emptive calpol if teething.

Bedroom dark with blackout blind and then feed in chair.

After he has fed I walk him up and down the bedroom until he falls asleep. This needs work but for the moment I don't feel either of us are quite ready to tackle self settling. I need more energy and I want him to feel more settled here first.

Then cot transfer. He is usually asleep by 6.45.

I hope this helps in some tiny way. FWIW, my one firm parenting belief is that O needs to be completely ready before I try anything new. He has been slower than most babies to sleep independently/through the night but he has got there in his own time.

and all round it seems

Screamy von Snotball finally settled properly at 8:30 after calpol then woke for 10 minutes at 3. As i didn't get in from work till nearly 7 (last minute cover) and vvvdp and my mum had had to vamp till i got in, I'm counting it as a good night!

We're very nervous. R and daddy are reading Hairy McLairy though while i eat breakfast :)

Morning really? already?

Kyz we're here when you're ready. Hope you're feeling back to your usual self soon xx

Pidj goooooood luck! Love hairy mclairy, we have one of them out from the library at the moment.

Chasing re: non date guy.

YW Tis very tempting though. PILs are in the process of having a wood burner installed, am tres jealous. We have an open fire though, which I do love. Even if it occasionally singes the carpet with its merry crackling. Someone near us has had their woodburner on as I've been sniffing it in the air for a few days now. Lovely lovely.

I went to bed at 9.15 last night. Forgot to set the alarm to get us all up this morning. Didn't make Fs bottles in advance, or get her stuff ready. Was a mild form of chaos this morning. Fecking ulcers are worse than ever, and now have spots on feet and knees to boot. I shall not be going to work (can't talk for one thing which dh is very glad about)

pig sounds horrible :( Enjoy the peace and quiet and unexpected rest.

I'm having my chimney swept right now. Why does that sound rude? :o
Or is it just me?

I've had to skip the baby group today as J is a little snot goblin. So we're all dressed up with nowhere to go.

Thanks for all the input. Stunt that breaking point you describe is where I am now. I need his sleep sorted. It's not good for him to have so little and I feel that it can't be helping his development to have so little sleep. Last night he ended up in bed at around 10.45 pm. He woke 3 times crying but managed to fall asleep on his own which is amazing. He literally cried for a few minutes and fell silent. So he slept 1hr 21 mins then woke, then slept 2hrs 3mins and then 2hrs 36mins ( can you tell I have an app a la pass??) so he didn't come into our bed til 4.50 am!! This is progress :-)

I've read nearly everything on that site stunt so I do need a bedtime routine and I'm willing to do some sort of controlled crying. The only issue I have is that I think picking him up may make things worse. I found a NZ site that talks a about verbal reassurance which seems workable. He is placed in cot awake, a phrase is used like " night night, love you, see you in the morning " then if crying he's left for 5 mins then you go in room halfway to cot, don't lift him and repeat the phrase, then ten mins then fifteen continuing every fifteen mins til sleep. It seems to imply that the phrase is just to reassure, not to console, and that it helps babies who would ramp up of left after cuddles. I think this is the route we will take

. I had orderd a bunch of books online meaning them to be for Xmas but figure I could take one of these just now to implement a routine as I don't think he'd appreciate Cinderella! Now he doesn't go to sleep til 10pm earliest so any ideas on timings of starting bedtime routine? His last bottle is normally 9 pm. Should we give him that feed upstairs as part of routine? He doesn't get bathed every night. I'm thinking...

8.30pm upstairs
Change nappy, into jammies and grobag
Give bottle
Teeth brush
Story, I was thinking same one each night?
In cot at 9pm?

Any input?

ginger you asked if surgey could be delayed. It has been already. They wanted me to go in march! I can't work the way things are at present so really it's to be soonish.

Izzy I think that sounds perfect. I give F her last bottle upstairs in her room - it helps unwind her as she doesn't have a bath every night, so it seems a bit much to go from, playing and crawling about, to 10 minutes later being expected to sleep! We have a rhyming story each night, I can't cope with reading the same one every day lol. Although we have also had the BFG for me

izzy this is our bedtime routine, it has been the same for 4 months now:
6pm bath and teeth
6.30 dressed in pyjamas and sleeping bag on, 3 stories on sofa. Always the same stories
6.45 bottle of milk
7.00 o in bed, lights off. No rocking here, just putting her in cot with cuddly toy.

English playgroup was rubbish, so disappointed. Better not even say more.

I'd say suck it and see Izzy iyswim. We started controlled crying on Monday or Tuesday last week and the first night he cried for 2.5 minutes! DH was standing with the timer ready to go in at 3 minutes but wasn't needed. He hasn't always been quite that quick to go to sleep but until last night's cold/teething combo it's actually been fine. It's a gradual process as well so although we've already seen an improvement in bedtimes it may take a while until it's easy and he can be left to go to sleep without us anxiously hanging on to the monitor for every cry. My one proviso would be to wait until he's tired before putting him to bed, even if that's late. J's normal bedtime was 7:30 so I started the sleep training to put him down at 8:30 so that he would be ready for sleep anyway. I'm gradually moving it forwards 15 minutes every couple of nights until it's 7:30 again.

I have been rescued by my neighbour who has taken J off for a drive! I'm not sure whether she heard him crying but I suspect my mum might have phoned her! I had a cup of tea and did some sewing now I'm trying to restore some order. Maybe I'll be able to see the carpets soon, they're currently covered in a layer of toys, dog hair and the detritus generated by small boys.

izzy fyi here is E's (an also DD1's) bedtime routine. The time does vary but we always do the same thing apart from the odd occasion when we are out late.

5:30 dinner
6pm bath and brush teeth (or if running late flannel wash in bathroom and brush teeth).
6:30 downstairs for a relaxing tv programme and milk.
7pm into DD1's bedroom for 2 bedtime stories (E comes too).
7:15 into E's room and put in grobag. Lights off and Cot mobile on or if away Ewan. Bf for as long as she wants (not normally long). Into bed awake. Very occasionally she will grizzle for max 5 mins but more often than not she just drifts off to sleep.

I think there are probably a couple of things I do which aren't particularly recommended. Tv before bed and brushing teeth before milk. But I've done this bedtime routine with DD1 since she was 3 months old and E has slotted into it nicely so it works for us.

You will have to experiment a bit to see what structure works for J but even if the timings change, I agree that as long as the basic steps remain the same J will soon learn what comes next.

Gah! Just wrote a long post but the fucking app has made it disappear!

Other people's routines really interesting.

Like eliza, LO has slotted into an older sibling's routine. izzy, is that an option for you? Also, like chasing I've not pushed S into self settling so it is all a bit hit and miss. Bedtimes work best when DH is around, we divide and conquer. When I am on my own, this is what we do:

6-6.15pm - upstairs, bath (every night - they love the bath and are grubby DC), teeth in bath. Then out, dressed into PJs and back downstairs.

6.30pm DD has milk with some cartoons while S has his final bottle. If I am very lucky, S falls asleep on the bottle, we finish fireman sam, and he goes into cot asleep by 6.45pm and then I do DD's story and cuddles.

If S doesnt fall asleep on the bottle I cannot get him to sleep by putting him into the cot. He cries up and the cot gives him rage.

So DD goes into her bedroom, to read stories and wait, and I get into my bed with S until he is alseep and can be transferred. Then deal with DD.

Sometimes DD falls asleep while waiting. This makes me feel v guilty. Sometimes she wont wait patiently and makes loads of noise and this is a disaster. S gets excited by DD, neither will calm down and go to sleep, we all end up downstairs until 10/11pm and they end up with more milk S has a fifth bottle on these occasions and I end up wanting to scream.

Once actually asleep, DD co-sleeps around 80% of the time with DH. S ends up in with me at some stage every night. He wakes 3-4 times a night. Sometimes easily settled, sometimes coming in with me is all that works. We do what ensures the most rest. But because it works from time to time, and because I just about get enough sleep, I havent done anything meaningful about getting S to go into the cot awake and go to sleep.

Need to read stunt's link I think.