March 2013: Smiles, sleep & excellent feeding.....the thread of wishful thinking!

[SoYo]

Well we may as well start the thread on a positive note before the grumbling about the little darlings begins!!!

*There should be a drop-in HV baby clinic

Have to say stormy I'd be tempted to say stuff em and take her to a&e, but I have no patience with unhelpful gp's. I think you'd be justified as that's so little to drink for a day I'd want to know LO wasn't dehydrated. But that's just me. Hopefully it'll get better soon. I think I started to notice some improvement with whiney bob's reflux at about 11 weeks. He still chucks up everywhere (usually when just in clean clothes) but there's less thrashing about and he keeps more down these days. The colief definitely helps, not sure the gaviscon makes much difference but I give him a bit each day incase it stops it hurting so much. Hope you have some better night feeds.

Christ Stormy this just isn't good enough. You've had problems since week 1, am appalled that you're not on some kind of pathway already. I have nothing useful to say except that I agree with Zig. It may be best to go to a&e if you feel the gp isn't being helpful.

Stormy I hope you're not having a bad night and have managed to get some more down your DD? Have you tried calling the out of hours GP or the NHS direct service (is it 111?)?
:(

DD's got a snotty nose and can't breathe right so it makes it sound like she's stopping breathing and then sort of chokes. It's horrible and I forgot to buy a snot sucker when it was mentioned upthread. What's the proper name for one? I'll try to get one today. Still got a slight throat and in the edge of a cold myself. Ho hum.

It's called baby nose clear by 4 in 1 little ones, available from boots or amazon. One end goes up there nose and other end you suck.

Stormy, big hug. Your gp gets charged if you go to a and e so that will make them take notice. Children under 2 can't use drop in clinics in our area so if gp won't see you then it's your only choice. Good thing about a and e is they will likely check hydration, tongue, thrush and feeding and you should get a proper referral to a paediatrician rather than a gp. If you tell gp you are doing that bet you get better response!

Ok night here. Still trouble settling at 7 pm but then fed at 11 and 3.30 and now back to sleep. Stormy, I completely understand. I can only get dd to do 3 max 4 but that is v rare ounces from the bottle so only doing two bottles a day. You want them to eat and poo more than anything else and if is so worrying when they don't. Big hug. Keep trying you are doing a great job.

Stormy that's crappy from your GP. If I were you I'd ring up & kick off first thing this morning (or even go in, it's much harder for them to put someone off face to face). In theory A&E would be a good call but in reality they'd likely tell you it's not an emergency, not a new problem and as long as baby's not acutely unwell and is having plenty of wet nappies not to be concerned. They'd check everything if you got to see a paediatrician but its more likely they'd send you home and tell you to wait to see your GP. If you we're worried about the wee one bing unwell then definitely A&E but if its just going to be a wasted long wait then maybe not right now (but then again I have no patience for waiting nowhere unless I definitely know its going to be worth it).

We had a difficult time getting madam to sleep last night and she settle in her cot but woke up 30 mins later. Finally got her down in her Moses basket just before 11 & she's only just woken up! It's been weeks since she went 5hrs.....amazing! Would only have been better if I hadn't been waking up since 2 expecting her to wake up & dint now have sore boulder boobs, but I'll take both of these gladly!

Thanks Eig - I'll try today. Although it still sounds grim!

SoYo sounds like a great night!

DD went till 2 then 2:40-4:50 then I brought her into bed to feed lying down and we coslept after then till 6:50. I read this BBC news article about cosleeping this morning when I was feeding her and felt really guilty about then not putting her back in the basket after she fed :(

I would never have done it with DS so I need to be stricter with myself from this evening on to transfer her back. But I made sure the duvet and pillows were nowhere near her head and the duvet only covering her feet for warmth and it's definitely (if marginally) better for me sleep-wise than having her sleeping on my chest. I will try harder tonight though.

I've ordered it on Amazon Eig so it'll arrive tomorrow. I suggested going to boots to DH and he moaned that 'every time we go to boots it costs us £5 in petrol' so I reminded him that's because we bloomin live rurally ie in the middle of nowhere! And we never do just pop to the shops either - we make sure it becomes a bigger trip out and we have a few things to get. So basically I have a grumpy DH on my hands today - joy. I wish he'd hurry up and get some work

Wing I'm going to try & find that paper & have a read. I read the article in a blurry haze but think it said that 1/5 of the cases they were co-sleeping with no other risk factors. So does that mean 4/5 weren't bit that all of those had other risk factors, would be interesting to see how many in cots had no other risk factors too. If I find it and manage to have a proper look I'll try and link to it.

By the time DD went to bed we'd managed 11 ounces, in five feeds. Three night feeds and we still didn't hit 20 ounces. Doctor theoretically calling back in three hours...

zig talk to me about colief. By this point I am willing to try anything.

Wing bottle feeding support would be great, but then they'd have to admit that normal people bottle feed and it isn't poison. You can't even look up different types of formula online without constant messages about breast being better. If they did the same with bottle feeding support, I think the support workers would end up getting smacked round the head with a bottle by countless frustrated mothers.

The colief is supposed to be for colic. You put it in the milk and it reduces the lactose. We found it helped the reflux too though it must make his stomach less irritated or something as we totally notice if he misses it in a few bottles. Much more screaming and thrashing with the puking. We really struggled to get the gp to give us anything other than gaviscon for the reflux. Thankfully he seems to be growing out of it now. But we didn't have as much trouble getting milk into our LO as you. Ours had a good appetite we just had to endure the screaming and puking after. I'd have been much more worried in your position. I'd definitely want referring to a paediatrician straight away.

Wing get some kids saline spray too it really works on our bub. We've got a snot sucker as well but it hasn't been very effective so far. Spray of saline though and they sneeze snot out usually in your face

Sounds similar to the comfort milk, zig. DD is definitely calmer between feeds, and much less likely to finish feeds with screaming and thrashing when she's on that stuff. Unfortunately it's thicker so we have the refusing to eat much issue. Will definitely keep colief in mind, as I've been enjoying how much more settled DD is on comfort milk.

zig you are right I swear by the spray, it's done by the same people who do calpol but its just salt water.

stormy I feel for you. I hope they call you back and get you a referral.

We are waiting for another poo today as haven't poo'd for 48 hours again!

Keeping my fingers crossed for a big one for you, Eig - guessing you don't particularly want to repeat the bath incident!

Just tried normal formula with gaviscon and a size three teat. Basically pouring the stuff straight in her mouth. Four ounces down before she really realised what was going on. Hmm.

New poo rhythm here. One MASSIVE one every 2 -3 days. I have just cleared up the first since Sat night. Mind you, now normal colour and consistency, so guessing its a version of just bf baby normal. (They are impressive when happen though, and he looks so pleased with himself!)

pud you just made me think, we didn't have a poo yesterday. Checked with the man. Turns out we did, and it was huge and scary. Presumably so scary I'd blocked it out!

Meanwhile, doctor is basically unwilling to try anything else as DD is gaining weight, albeit slowly. So if every feed ends up with her screaming and me crying, it doesn't matter. If I have to feed her a dozen times a day and still can't get a decent amount of milk in her, it doesn't matter. Just so long as she's gaining. Still very much unimpressed.

Stormy that's ridiculous. Can you ring the surgery back & say you want to speak to a different doctor for a second opinion? You're entitled to do this & if your baby is struggling to eat & dropping centiles they should definitely be doing something!

Wow your doctor sounds lovely Stormy! Demand a second opinion, he's clearly not listening. Did the 4oz stay down? I know that support workers will observe a boob feed, but it'd be bloody helpful if they'd also do it for bottle feeding mummies too. Agree 100% with what you said up thread about complete lack of guidance.

Ds had decided that his only naps now are 7-10 am (which means he expects to play at 5am!) and ten minutes after each bottle, if we're lucky. The witching hour is down to about 15 minutes though, and usually ends with him falling asleep for half an hour before the bedtime routine starts. It's great fun trying to juggle this and get stuff done around the house. I really need to learn to get up and showered early so I'm ready for the day before he gets up but I just don't have it in me!

The four ounces stayed down absolutely fine, and DD seemed perfectly happy afterwards. The health visitor's been on the phone too. According to her, if DD's taking two ounces in ten minutes or so and then refusing more, we are letting her drink far too fast, and so she's getting far too much air in her stomach. So we have to let her have a quick suck on the bottle then take it away, then give it back for a moment, and so on. And it ought to take forty five minutes to an hour to get a couple of ounces down her. So we tried that. Given that a properly working teat does actually drip, this meant she got an ounce and a half in ten minutes and then spent twenty minutes crying and refusing the bottle until we gave up. I'd ring the HV back and ask what her next great idea for starving my daughter is, but it's engaged.

Bottle feeders: how much does yours have, and how fast?

That hv should come and tell my milk monster that he drinks too fast! He takes roughly 7oz (sometimes less, but the 8oz bottles were clearly during a growth spurt) 5 times a day. Feed + burping usually takes half an hour.

Oh and we burp halfway through.

The very idea of slowing your daughter down when she's actually drinking is bonkers.

I agree. Bonkers. Mines 13 weeks so a bit older but I make up 6 or 7 oz bottles. He doesn't always drink it all but he has most of it. He has 6 or 7 bottles a day depending on what his highness feels like. He's shouting for an unscheduled one now so off to the kitchen I go. Oh and it doesn't take anything like that to drink it. About 20 min max for a big one. He's also not a fast drinker and still on smallest teat or it chokes him. I don't always burp halfway. Only if he pulls off the bottle complaining.

Bloody hell Stormy :(

I spoke to the lady at my post natal group whose both sons are lactose intolerant. She said that with her first it took five weeks of going to her GP and talking to the HV and they kept palming her off too but he knew something wasn't right. Her DD was putting on a lb a week too so they said there was nothing wrong. It was not when there was blood in the nappy did they refer her to the Paed and straight away he diagnosed it.

Symptoms included reflux, vomiting, lots of crying but the main thing for her though was the awful nappies - diarreah (sp?)-like and increasingly green and even foamy
Now I know that probably aren't the symptoms you've got with your DD but her experience of having to persist may be something you can relate to - and don't take the brush-off that she's gaining weight and 'it's just colic/reflux' to mean that everything's fine :( Her advice was definitely to ask for a second opinion and, if you can, find a female GP who has children!

Stormy - Symptoms of dehydration in babies, in case you want to check?