March 2013: Smiles, sleep & excellent feeding.....the thread of wishful thinking!

[SoYo]

Well we may as well start the thread on a positive note before the grumbling about the little darlings begins!!!

Hi Leni - my friend is a maternity nurse and has been an invaluable help to me, especially with stuff like feeding.

Her advice is feed for an hour (maybe a little more during growth spurt weeks) but not to allow a snacking habit. He's not eating, there is no way his stomach is big enough to swallow milk for 4 hours. She told me to feed, stop and wind, feed, stop and wind etc, and after an hour if my dd was still sucking to tap her lips with a finger and see what she did. A hungry baby will grab at your finger, a vaguely hungry one will open their mouth and move their head towards it, a full baby won't really react.

After an hour and a half max, stop, whatever, you're being used for comfort not food.

My dd sucks her hand and fusses when bored, over tired, trapped wind, colic, dirty nappy etc. Hand sucking isn't just a hunger cue. She also frantically sucks on the boob when she is has trapped wind. It isn't hunger, she's uncomfortable so is looking for comfort.

You've got to stop the snacking before it becomes a habit. The best way is to go out. You are probably both bored and frustrated and the fresh air will do you both good. My really DD doesn't nap. If I stayed in she'd probably chew on me all day and I'd crack up. I put her in the sling (she kicks and cries for the first 10 minutes) and then falls asleep and will sleep for at least an hour, sometimes 2. That way I get to space her feeds out so she is properly hungry, swallows sensibly and doesn't comfort suck.

As for showering and dressing, just do it. Put ds in a moses basket or bouncy chair in the bathroom with you and shower and dress. He may shout a bit, but he will be safe and you can talk to him. Same with meals, although a sling can be better as he may well go to sleep.

It's really tough when they do this. Big hugs.

Thank you ladies, I know I keep banging on about this, but I get so confused at all the people saying babies do this to get your supply up so you should just keep feeding them all day. It doesn't make sense because a mummy with no food or drink for a day is not going to be able to make a supply at all surely!

I'm trying to tell myself it's a phase and not every day is like this. Nature programmes humans so weirdly sometimes.

I still can't see how one formula feed a day can damage supply, especially if sometimes the baby goes longer between feeds anyway. It just seems totally impossible to cancel your entire normality for 3 months, not eat, not drink, not wash etc when like you say, a baby's tummy can't possible house all that milk anyway.

OH just got him to take the dummy fine and now has him in the sling, he keeps squawking but then finally sleeping a bit. I think tomorrow I'll do what you all advise, let him have an hour tops and then stick him in the sling even if he's hand sucking. He genuinely does still do the hunger reflex even after 4 hours, turning if touched on the cheek and sucking hard on anything put near his mouth rather than just sort of licking it.

I blame the NCT website for giving me a huge guilt trip over combination feeding

I was paranoid about my milk reducing too, but actually it's fine. We're on 1.5 or 2 bottles a day, and when I got out of the shower today I fired milk 3 ft across the room. No joke! I'll kind of miss that.... cracks me up every time

Well, we had a good start to the day, by our standards - a whole four ounces at breakfast! Then it all sort of went downhill. Ten am, two ounces. One pm, three and a half. Four pm, totally refused the bottle. Five pm, half an ounce. Six pm, three ounces, with a lot of fussing and crying and really not wanting it. Making a total for the day of a measly thirteen ounces. I'm going to be setting my alarm and getting up every three hours to feed her overnight, because this is ridiculous. Is it possible for a baby to just not like milk?

Wors I never leak... You myst be a milky champ!

Trying to express all eve but not much happening - boobs on strike major boob refusal since OH got up so had to give him a bottle after an hour getting nowhere. Really peed off actually, 5 hours of feeding then refusal eh? Awkward child!

Literally feels like I'm doing a shit of mothering today. All suggestions people have made are things that my baby just won't do - respect to anyone who can cope with doing anything when this screaming is going on, you're stronger than I am!

Is it possible that he has tummy trouble which is making him cry, and the nursing is comforting for him but a viscious circle in that the more he eats the more it adds to the problem? Just a thought...

Leni - believe me, leaking is not a good thing. Oh no. Spraying across a room is funny, sure, but soaking one's top for no better reason than thinking about her-littlest-ship is frankly rubbish... and creates a lot of washing.

I'd second the tummy trouble suggestion. DD can be a right royal pain in the bum when she has a colicky stomach. A really impressive poonami usually sorts her out, but infacol helps as well.

Stormy - can you do a bit of demanding of rights and get a referral to a paediatrician? I'd be tempted to myself, as everything is probably fine, but if she really isn't thriving it has to be worth checking out. Ime the NHS is great at treating things once they are diagnosed, but really loathe to do any diagnosing unless you have a major strop make a fuss. Poor little dd and poor you, it must be stressful.

Right, nighty night. I'm off duty as DH has just got home and is doing the evening settle thing so that I can sleep. Lucky me

Stormy how much is LO meant to have? Quite extreme these babies eh, either too much or too little. How's the weight gain going?

We've got a bottle of Infacol in every room now, so weird that he's fine all day on the boob but suddenly it all kicks off. Had about 4 poos today - and millions of farts. He cries whilst farting so maybe that's linked.

Determined to go out tomorrow, hope everyone's nights are going well

Cries while farting? Your poor DS :(

I don't have much advice for you Leni or Stormy, sorry. I wish I did! But then again I wish I had the answers for my own issues too!

An early first feed tonight. Annoying too as I misread the time on the bedroom clock as 2:58 (yay) as opposed to 12:58 (rubbish). Got a big day ahead too; DNeice's confirmation so I really need the sleep tonight else I'll be doubly knackered and going by the time of this feed, I'll also be up 4-5ish. Sigh.

Night all...

MiniPud quite often cries when farting, worse when he's a bit backed up, better when all moving through normally as it were.

Stormy, I second the suggestion. Get onto your hv and get weight checked. If she's gaining fine then you don't have anything to worry about, if not, then they need to give you some help as it sounds like you are doing everything you can to try and get her to eat.

Had our own bottle fussiness here last 2 nights. He's only on very limited amounts by bottle now and I think I need to make sure he does keep up one a day as otherwise DH is going to be in for problems when I have KIT days etc (coming up).

In fact I must start expressing to leave him a reasonable supply (but perhaps not right this second!)

Seems a relatively quiet night so far? Hope that bodes well and that many of you are getting great starts to your weekend.
Night out had. Heels and everything. Both new mums coped. Have to say going from being locked up for weeks to full on bling in speigeltent was a sensory overload! But fun. Leaving house without dd most strange and looking in rear view mirror and not seeing her little face odd. wing you were right, tonight was the night the feed pattern changed. Done 1130 and 0330 so far. Hope you get your much needed sleep ahead of special day tomorrow. Or today. Ug.
pud the impending kit days do add a certain something to proceedings don't they. Expressing in the night time has to be the worst time. It's boring at the best of times. So yes, let's think about that another time!
leni liking your style on the determination to get out today. That'll do you no end of good hopefully and give lo something other than milk to think about. Is he putting weight on steadily?
Wishing you all well for the remains of the night. I'm off to spare room now for some sleep sans zoological noise for a couple of hours.

Stormy, just furkllng on BW site and round this... www.babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=251275.0 did you change teats withtt comfort milk at all?

Morning all,

Put MiniYo to bed in her cot at 8 & we've had feeds at 12.15 & now which is definite progress! If she doesn't go dine easily after this one, which I suspect might be the case, we'll be co-sleeping for the rest of the night. Problem is the man's back so there's less space in the bed & I don't like putting her between us as he sleeps like the living dead so isn't aware of her. Hmmmm.

Hope you're all tucked up & snoozing away. I really fancy a tea! Might ave to start bringing a thermos to bed!

DS just slept for 5 hours before waking up, and drinking 200ml (!) of formula... I cracked on the bottle front, after that 5 hour boob marathon yesterday followed by complete refusal, I just wasn't mentally ok enough to spend the night trying to do boob if he didn't want it.

Had an email about freelance work from the usa that made me cry - a pitfall of being awake at this time to read them - so frustrated and angry that people constantly communicate so badly, or say one thing then claim they said the opposite. I'm tired of forwarding people their own emails to prove I'm not mad. Very sad that things I've worked so hard for always seem to turn to shit! Feeling like things are getting on top of me a bit now, and I'm just not in any fit state to make decisions or deal with things rationally at all.

First tears since being pregnant

Please universe, just give me a break today...

Wow Leni, if you've come this far without tears, I reckon you must be superwoman!

Moral of the story, don't try to work when it's the middle of the night. At some point, find time for the man to look after the boy, and enjoy getting your work head on and indeed getting a little angry. In the meantime, try not to think about it. And I know that's dead easy for me to say.

Fist sucking at this age is normal, and becomes about more than hunger. It's the beginnings of their ability to self soothe, finding their hands and so on. Is his cry a hungry cry, as after 4 hours I'd expect him to be knackered and so poss a little overtired? Again, this would make the comfort of sucking appealing. By this stage, babies want to suck for something like 16 hours a day, but they don't need to eat for that. Thank god!

There are some great videos online which help you see the swallow reflex nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=6&Itemid=13here which may help you decide if your latch is good and he's actively drinking all that time. The bit on nibbling might strike a chord? But other than cluster feeding through the odd growth spurt I'd say its not normal for him to feed as long as you say he is.

Sorry, fluffed link nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=6&Itemid=13here

Oh, or not.

And see point 4 here nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=27:myths-of-breastfeeding&catid=5:information&Itemid=17&limitstart=2

pud that link's coming up purple, so I must've already read it. Yes, we shifted up a size with the comfort milk.

eco it's bizarre being out with no baby, isn't it? Tuesday at the cinema, I kept having this niggling feeling I'd forgotten something...

Had DD weighed on Wednesday again. She'd gained three ounces since the previous Wednesday. This is with every feed being a battle to get even two ounces down her. Breakfast this morning she lost interest after an ounce. Slowly gaining or not, I feel like there's something wrong, and I can't face the thought of another four months of feeds like this.

leni at ten pounds, should be about 25 a day. We've only ever managed that much twice, in that brief period when gaviscon seemed like the answer to all the world's problems.

Hope everyone's had a good night with plenty of sleep all round.

Thanks Pud. I have to admit I don't know what his hungry cry is - he just sounds very angry even after a big feed! I know his half arsed wet nappy cry and his painful wind cry only because they stop with either a change or a fart, but as far as I could tell yesterday's were all hunger. He can literally keep it up for half the day

Stormy did you have to find that out yourself? We've had no advice on amounts. Isn't it annoying how one week something seems to be the answer and then it's not again? I thought the same about dummies about two weeks ago.

Still having nap fails. I think I have the only baby who refuses to fall asleep in the car or pram. Makes for getting out the house a pain.

Leni I can concur hand in mouth might not be hunger. It is fast becoming preferred to a dummy in this house. He was doing it while he slept and farted last night. Charming.

Stormy how old is your LO now? I know all babies are different as my hv keeps telling me in answer to EVERY question I have, but that really doesn't sound like alot of formula. I think you're right to question it and get it checked out. Trust your instincts.

I'm currently sitting at the back entrance half of a huge Catholic Church in Southport feeding DD. I would have done it in the church itself as I'm sitting with DH's family on the 2nd from back row but the row in front is full of scouse men/boys and I just couldn't do it. One of them was feeding a slightly older baby with a TT bottle and I was a bit envious until I saw the baby had her tiny ears pierced!

leni I've been told repeatedly it's about 2.5 x weight in pounds. Although if you're boobing too, then you can't really track it, because who knows how much they get from there? And it's not very helpful being told how much DD should be having when she refuses to have it!

zig ten weeks. It's bugger all, really. We keep waiting for her tummy to stretch and her appetite to increase, but nothing doing. We manage the occasional three or four ounce bottle but most feeds are as small as they were when she was a week old.

Wing I hope you managed to restrain yourself and not shudder in front of the entire church. I'm all for piercings (got seven myself) but on babies? Counts as child abuse to my mind.

Stormy did you say she is putting on weight fine or is she dropping the centiles?

A mixed afternoon here. I completely surpassed myself on the bfing in public! I actually walked up the huge aisle in the middle of the church, past 400 people and up to the priest for a blessing while feeding DD!

She was covered by my big probably Mumsnet scarf so I knew her head couldn't be seen but the priest's face was a picture! I think (well, I hope) that he just thought she was asleep in my arms

I can't wait to tell DD about it!

On the downside, she was awake from before the whole thing and throughout so from 1:20 and fell asleep five mins before the end but woke up when I put her in the car to head to SIL's house. She then pretty much went into meltdown mode unless I was feeding her (and there were other guests there) so we left at 5:15 to head home. After an emergency stop to feed and comfort her again 5 mins into the journey, she slept for half hour then cried for half hour until we got home (unless I was contorted backwards to put my finger in her mouth). Poor thing must have been shattered. I've fed her on/off since we got back but I think she's getting sleepier now.

And I've just discovered the term 'Velcro baby'. I think I have one (can't really put her down in the daytime, needs to be asleep when transferred into the Moses basket). I felt pretty low this morning as I can only compare her to DS who was an absolute dream. But then again I may be being unfair as I can't remember much of the first few weeks of DS so I may actually be comparing her to a 3, 4 or later month-old baby DS.

I'm hoping you girls aren't quiet because you're watching Eurovision? Hoping instead it's because you're all fast asleep. Sleep is preferable. Eurovision is terrible! As usual. Hurrah!