November 2012 - Don't forget the tummy time

[StuntNun]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/1664696-November-2012-By-eck-we-can-talk

Stats list: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/antenatal_clubs/1485512-November-2012-Stats-List

Not a bad night here. Feeds at 22.30, 02.30 and 06.15. He also woke briefly at 1am and 5am but instead of feeding him straight away I gave him a little cuddle and he went straight back to sleep.

pass I tried to put DS down in his carrycot for his nap before, I could clearly see he was tired. He lay there sucking his dummy and staring at me then started whimpering then worked himself up into a big cry. So I picked him up and settled him then put him back, same thing as before. So I gave up picked him up, he cried for a few mins and is now asleep on me. What would you have done? Should I have let him cry a bit, or kept putting him down? I really want him to start sleeping without being on me.

VQ do not say that! You sound like an excellent mummy, and I am grateful for you sharing how you got your DS to sleep so well. I think as a FTM sleep training seems daunting to me, hence why I want to know how people are doing it. I also think as you have 2 other young children you have learnt lessons and you have been through it all before.

We will all parent differently and as long as our children are happy and loved then that's all that matters.

Oo thanks pikz ill try adding some fresh to it and see if she'll take that

A good night here for us, down by 10:30 then up at 4 and up at 7 for the day. Because we all had to be up this morning I fed her bed and she decided to projectile vomit her whole feed back up and cover me her and the bed that soon made DP shoot out of bed

VQ your not a bad mummy. We all do different things because we're all different people and we have to do what works for us and our babies. CC has worked for you and J and helped you both and made you happier, for others it wouldn't. For me I know the difference in DDs cries and I know when she's fed up, wants picking up or there's a problem and so I respond to each different, I don't let her cry because I'm a wuss and it stresses me out completely but that's what works for us. People say to me oh let her have a good cry and things like oh don't pick her up you'll make a rod for your own back ect ect well it's no ones business but mine if I pick my daughter up or not and if I do make a rod for my own back then that's my problem too isn't it no one else's

The snow has gone!! I can't wait to go for a walk today

Oh pennie just saw your post... No the groom is not called Dave, so they are on different stags,haha. When is the wedding? This wedding is march 9th so I need to lose these last few pounds before I buy a nice dress!

I'm for whatever method works. I regret not doing cc or stricter routines with DD1, and will do it with dd2 if necessary. Dd2 is actually very good at self soothing. With DD1 I'm having to go right back to basics, and DH and I never have an evening to ourselves, and never have the bed to ourselves.

I was on conception thread as well. Although I don't think I posted as much on that one. Took me a while to come out of the lurker stage.

Have had an offer on our house which I'm really pleased about. It's not quite as much as the other buyers offered but only 2k short and they don't have any where to sell so as long as they don't pull out it could actually go quicker then it would have done if the other buyers hasn't pulled out.

I'm going to cook a lamb roast tonight. Not done one for a while. The snow has melted so DH can finally play golf again. It's like the end of the world if he doesn't get to play at least once a week!

E snoozing nicely in her bouncer so I'll take the opportunity to do some expressing.

tiger if P ever starts to actually cry when I put her down and the dummy doesn't calm her I might take her out and try again in a bit. If p is upset in her basket and hand on her chest sometimes chills her out. I have no idea if this would work for your LO. I wonder if continuing to try it every time a nap is needed but don't push the issue at one single nap if that makes sense. If he won't settle after a few attempts and you feel uncomfortable then take him out and resolve to try again next nap.

VQ how are the teeth?

Tiger - I too use the dummy and hand on chest. Only at night. I do need to get better at day time sleeping. He sleeps but often in his sling/bouncy chair/me/ car seat. Tbh I like the flexibility of that, and that he will nap anywhere so I'm not too keen on the whole 'he must nap at this time in this place'. I think that's probably more important when he's going off to nursery.

It works for us and he's happy.

I hate pain crying too :(

CC is a very emotive subject. Zcos (was it?) I read a study which claimed it increased stress hormones in young babies whilst I was studying psychology. I have also read studies which claim bees can't fly. Basically, do what works for you and your baby. Obviously don't leave them screaming all night in a dark room at the other end of the house (as my MIL kindly suggested scrubs name off babysitting list ) but short periods of leaving them to self settle when they are evidently crying because they're just pissed off won't do them any harm. Last night for instance, M was fed, changed and winded. She was obviously overtired. She worked herself into such a state that DP instinctively picked her up and walked around the house with her. All this served to do was upset her more. 5 minutes in her basket alone and she was spark out. The wee dote is now cuddling my boobs and cooing and smiling at me - she clearly isn't holding a grudge and is most certainly not stressed!

IMPORTANT POST ( I know this is unusual for me)

I actually made some notes this morning so I would remember what to write when I got back from church!!

zcos I think everyone has said it we are all really different on here. I have stuck to strict routines with all 4 of my DCs which inevitably has meant they have all gone through some element of crying down. The first 3 have turned out to be secure and happy children so it has worked for me. I find with DC 4 if I do handle him and cuddle him a lot when he is grumbling because he is tired it makes it worse. He is better to goto bed and cry down for 20 mins or so. Because I am routiney it is fairly obvious whether he is crying for sleep of food. Or, indeed, a poonami,

stunt after my first 2 I went back to fairly mundane normal period cycle. After number 3 my cycle went WILD, was all over the place REALLY heavy. I would have to set the alarm at night to get up and tidy up so I didn't have a flooding accident. Was horrible. I couldn't get pregnant because my cycle was all over them place and I ended up having homeopathy which really worked to get my periods back to being regular.

IMPORTANT QUESTION......Oliver will be mortified when he is older if he knew I wrote this. When he goes for a wee his bits don't always stand up, if you know what I mean. Infact I have only seen this happen a handful of times whereas DS1 is always getting them. Is this normal? Or should I be concerned that this doesn't happen very often? on behalf of Olly!

Crap night by our usual standards. Knew I shouldn't have let him sleep for 3 hours yesterday!

Woke at 2.30, 6.30, then up around 8 according to DP. I wouldn't know...!!

I got up at 11.30 and DP said Oscar had only snoozed for 30 minutes all morning.

He is now asleep.

I hope he doesn't want to go to bed really early tonight, as that is what happens when he gets up early...

I was liking the 10-6 he had done! Even 10-4 is okay! Pffft!

Oh and DP has been treated to several vomiting incidents, and a poonarmi! Our his first! I obviously spoke too soon yesterday .

I don't know Sophia I don't think I've ever watched either of them having a wee!

Are they meant to do that?!

Sophia L varies, if we take off the nappy and he is 'standing to attention' then we know to keep him firmly covered but we have had an unexpected shower a few times when it has been lying flat. So I think it's normal, in my meagre experience!

zcos apologies, my post was not aimed at you, but was prompted by what you said. I think MM made a very interesting point about research and agree with others that say you need to find your own way.

You mentioned me having older children, and therefore experience. I do have older children who were great sleepers, then J arrives and turned everything I thought upside down. He was a very clingy baby from birth, and would not even settle in the hospital cribs. He would not accept a dummy, or swaddling, and was in hospital age 5 weeks with bronchiolitis which complicated matters. It took him a long time to get over it.

We tried various methods of co-sleeping, none of which we were happy with, so we tried CC as a last resort. Thankfully it worked, and very quickly, because he and I were both ready.

I read your post towards the end of a dreadful night, and did get quite upset by the mention of the research findings. This was moments after my husband had looked daggers at me for letting J self settle. He felt I should have fed him, but I was confident he would be fine and sleep a bit longer. He did. About three hours longer.

We started CC in the middle of the 12 week growth spurt - I was so tired I could not see this was what it was. I recommend waiting until after. All babies are different, and my big boy seemed to have a strong instinct to be near me. This seems to have passed. He is a different boy now. He was waking every hour to have a snack and sleep with a nipple in his mouth. That was not helping either of us. Last night he did two 5 hour stretches.

I am terrified he will get this germ we all have, but he is much bigger now and better able to cope with things. My temp is not going much below 39 and I feel like I have been run over by a bus.

DD1 still has teeth, but is not well with this bug. DD2 is being a little horror as she is feeling a bit better.

sophia DS has not weed on me since the first week. I know about big willies, but not little ones, sorry.

Sophia we are the same as blonder. Varies.

I know about big willies, but not little ones, sorry ditto!

Poo watch is (tentatively) over, but nothing epic per se, so am still a little edgy.
Having read all the comments about CC and self-settling etc I tried to let little pig self-settle in the bouncer, but she was having none of it, and she is a baby who really works herself up screaming if you leave her more than a few minutes. Anyway, after a few hours of not settling on me either, I put her in her crib - out. Like a light. Seems my little baby who would only sleep on me is growing up a bit! She needs all the sleep she can get as PILs descending on us shortly and will no doubt play pass the baby...

VQ hope you and your brood start to feel better soon

I thought I'd have a go at letting him self settle too, well, is putting him in the swing classed as self settling? I shushed him in my arms for a couple of minutes to check it was sleep he wanted - the eyes rolled. Yup, it was sleep time. So I put him in the swing. 3 minutes later, he was asleep. Yay!

He has self settled in the past, but I enjoy cuddling him to sleep on the days where he isn't overtired and fighting it like mad!. With DS1 around, I don't get much of a look in these days. Baby is constantly stolen from me. No wonder DS1 gets all the beaming smiles, while I just get the cries!

I think it depends how ready he is for a nap whether he self settles. Sometimes he is overtired.

I spent an hour feeding him, 15 minutes rocking/singing (Bob Marley's Don't Worry) and 10 minutes in the crib. Hysteria

Now off swimming

I just clicked 'I'm on' and your post was there pidj except you could only see up to the word 'bob'. Naturally, I assumed 'The Builder'.

Damn children corrupting my brain!!

Thought it was a little jolly to send a wee one off to sleep .

Mind you if Marley didn't work, maybe you should try The Builder.

Good luck swimming!

J has already been introduced to the Octonauts and Dora the Explorer. I don't see any harm in TV so long as it's limited. DS1 isn't interested in TV but DS2 would watch it all day if you let him so has to be restricted to one-hour chunks.

With the crying there is a huge difference between letting your baby cry as part of self-settling and letting your baby cry because you aren't looking after it. When a baby is being neglected (I'm talking about where the mother is an alcoholic for example and unresponsive to her baby) they stop crying because there is no response and they give up. This is where there is the rise in stress hormone (cortisol) and you are likely to get a long-term psychological effect. Neglect is a key factor in the development of narcissistic personality disorder as an example. Obviously this is a totally different scenario from a child in a loving family environment that is being left to cry for five minutes because it will get them over to sleep or because another child needs attention.

There is a FTM on a FB group I'm on whose DP (who already has two kids) has her convinced that you only pick a baby up to feed them or change a nappy and the rest of the time you leave them in their cot and that crying is something you mustn't 'give in' to. She was fighting her maternal instinct to comfort her child, believing it was 'correct' to leave him crying. IMO this is where it becomes damaging to the child. It's a hangover from the Victorians that children should be seen and not heard. It was easier for them though since they could use alcohol and laudenam to keep them quiet!

stunt that poor woman & her baby!! I couldn't not cuddle my dc, crying or not. My DM was told she would spoil me by picking me up all the time & not sending me to the nursery sometimes the masses of labels to that effect she stuck all over my cot were still ignored I was days old at the time!! That was only 1979.

My SIL, who is quite a bit older than me, once described a baby's cry as their "weapon" and told me about how she trained hers to self settle by putting them in their cot and shutting door - only took 3 nights apparently :(

I let DD1 do whatever she did when it came to sleeping, and I paid for it - she was waking every 2 hours til she was 13 months I won't be doing that again.

Feck

I wrote a very heartfelt message about CC and the wonderful mums on here. I have learned so much reading through these posts and was sad that anyone would have read any judgement in anything I posted.

The original research on CC was actually conducted on Romanian orphans- quite an extreme control group! It was used to argue against it by advocates of keeping them on you at all times. Most baby trainers forget the biggey expert: you, the mum. I find myself getting irritated by rigid routines but they really do work for some some people.

The No Cry was very interesting to read because it was a halfway house. The sleep information was very helpful and she is a fan of them learning to self sooth with just a little support. As a first time mum I'm crap at the crying thing. I know I need to sleep train and we were going great guns. Then she stopped feeding and everything went to pot. I feel like I'll never get there but have to remind myself she's only just 12 weeks.