October 2012: onwards, upwards and rolling over?

[YompingJo]

Is this part 5 already? Where did that time go?

PS love the line about 'what insignificant shit I was worrying about back then'!

Ha!

Sod 'em. We'll find you a new job. A much better one.

I second the hilarity to 'what insignificant shit u was worrying about then'!!!!! Ah, so naive we were..........

Bless u all 2nd timers for letting us! X

Hilarious smorgs indeed re insignificant shit.

Terrible terrible night last night here too. Fed only briefly at 10pm, woke at 1, then 330 and wouldn't feed, wouldn't settle, so like a mug I tried her in my bed. Bad idea. She dozed briefly til 5 then fed again then wouldn't sleep. Hideous. I took her up to DF at 6, in floods of tears and told him its his child too and he needs to help. I then dozed for about 20 mins but too overtired and headachy to sleep. Sigh.

My cousin recommended a book (silent nights). She is a child psychologist so reasonably knowledgeable etc. the book basically seems to focus on how to settle babies who won't settle at bedtime (which fortunately isn't our problem) and the advice for babies that wake in the night is (basically) ignore it, they'll give up. And they're learning good sleep skills, etc etc. it should, in theory, only take two weeks of listening to howling for a permanent effect to be achieved. Now in my hideously sleep deprived state with headache, cotton wool brain, endless tears etc, I confess that I really really want dd to sleep through. She is 12 weeks old and gaining weight fast and not in any danger of starvation. She has made it through from 11pm to six am twice. So does not need to eat in the night. But the thought of just ignoring her for up to 30 mins in 10 min bursts seems heart breakingly harsh. But is it good for her, and me, long term, that she learn how to settle herself?

How long do you leave your child before you respond to the cries?

I also bought the no cry sleep solution but haven't read it yet.

Advice please ladies. It's been going on too long now and I just can cope.

Liv sorry to put extra pressure on but I'm a psychologist and we would never ever advocate leaving a child to cry. It's true that babies will stop crying if you leave them long enough, but it's not because they've learned good sleep skills it's because they've learned that no one comes when they do. It can have an impact on Attachement and it will make you both feel shit.

I really know how hard it is when you're so tired but read the No Cry solution.

Sending hugs.

I should add, leaving them to cry on occasion is totally fine and will save your sanity - but systematically doing it is not helpful long term.

Oh livvy

I wish I had solutions, it's such hard work, and NOTHING you're doing wrong, babies are just really hard work sometimes...
What about the maternity nurse you had for a bit a while back? Could you get her back for a couple of nights? Potentially to help with her experience, but even just to give you a couple night's sleep so you can think straight? I find it impossible to think straight when seriously sleep deprived.

bora said summat about dieting. Don't do it, chick. Not worth it if you've had obsessive problems with food before. What I do - don't know if this is helpful - I make sure I eat three healthy meals a day with loads of veg and protein, and I (mostly) try to swap unhealthy snacks for healthy snacks. Like today was in a cafe with my mum and had banana and coffee rather than cake and coffee.
I have done quite a bit of exercise, but I honestly don't think that really helps you lose weight much, I think it helps massively with health and fitness and mood and shape is all.
Felt like a flump until 3 months despite all the running, 4th month has been much better though. Think I am losing weight but don't dare weigh myself!!
You are a month behind, big hugs, keep the faith (you are probably half my size already and this pep talk is pointless!)

I can't remember who was asking me about sex the other day, but I've stopped having sex sex. I just regularly get naked and we snog and get each other off, but we don't have sex any more. I still call it sex to make myself feel ok about it all. I figure one day I'll just be really up for it and it will be great and natural and just happen and then it will be fine. But I'm not going to force it.
It's kind of like baby led weaning. Postnatalhormonalwreck-led-shagging.

Hey elpis you might know her, ill pm you (if I can work out how).

livvy you poor thing, lack of sleep is torture, literally. You must do whatever you feel is right for your family. But don't blame yourself. As crazy said its all just random luck, which unfortunately makes it feel so much more unfair would it help to look at her sleeping trends to help you feel better about it? ie if you record each night's longest stretch of sleep or total wakenings you might see the pattern improving even if there might be one or two horrendously shit nights in amongst them?
I personally don't have the energy to battle with him overnight so I wait until his 'coughs' have become cries then try popping the dummy back in but if that doesn't work I feed him. I know it seems to be the answer to everything these days, but she could be going through a growth spurt and needing to feed more often? Big hugs and hair strokes to you x

oh poor you livvy. I don't know about leaving them to cry. If you want a personal view, I think I would find it too unbearable. I would research if it works- ie does it actually teach a baby this age anything? Is there some Pavlovian conditioning involved? ie if no one comes when they cry, do they just learn that no one comes or does it actually teach some good sleep habit? Is it damaging?

Is there any way your partner can be more involved at night? I know he works / studies- but if he could just take the pressure off you a bit, it might help. In the meantime, do whatever you need to do to survive.

It will get better. I promise. This won't last. Then it will get good for a while and that won't last either.

oops cross posted with about eighteen thousand people...

Londonmrss

Me and my mate were discussing painful sex. Her baby is 6 mths now. She got together with her boyfriend 1 mth before accidentally conceiving so it was all a bit of a crazy time - they are living together though. So she says they never really got to have the honeymoon sex, cause she was vomiting for 14 weeks and then stressed until 30 weeks and then he was too weirded out by the baby for the last trimester. So she was keen to get back to sex postnatally, and upset that it hurt. She had a forceps delivery and put it down to that, but comparing experiences I think it is just a giving birth problem. She has also been to a doc who said give it time (she was quoted 6-9 months! for a forceps delivery)

We were discussing how everyone says it is ok in time, but no one warned us it would still hurt at 4 months and 6 months respectively. But then we both admitted to each other than every single person we've asked so far has said "oh my god, how are you having sex. I didn't even try for a YEAR."

We concluded she is in a new relationship and I have always been an oversexed nobber. In conclusion, any of us who are having sex at all are pretty much ahead of the curve here.

Does anyone else wish we gestated for like 2 months?

londonmrss er cross posted with you sorry - that was supposed to cheer you up about your earlier sex post - cannot guarantee it will do any such thing mind!

Bloody hell first I had a 3b tear and I haven't had all this hoo-haa!

both DSs asleep!

Woohoo for the crazykids!

Just a last post from me to say PELVIC FLOORS

Livvy sending a massive hug. I'm not sure how you're still functioning tbh - even a few bad nights last week nearly finished me off, although the last few nights have returned to normal. I'm going to swim against the general MN tide and say that I know MANY devoted parents who have used some form of controlled crying with their kids - and their kids are fine. I'm not a psychologist and even if I was I could no doubt find evidence to support both views (and this is no disrespect to Bora or anyone else individually - but livvy's cousin is a child psychologist who seems to advocate it). I know for example there was that study last year that okayed CC when it was done for a week - and they pointed out if it's taking longer than that parents might need help with their technique. I would say that most people I know did it when their babies were a bit older (5-7 months) but most found within a few nights things were transformed. They were undoubtedly a tough few nights but they got results and led to much greater happiness for the whole family.

I worked with very traumatised, abused kids for a while and maybe it gives me a different perspective. I don't believe that a few nights of being allowed to cry with a parent nearby reassuring a baby causes longterm damage or attachment issues. I simply don't believe it. The kids I've known with attachment issues had parents who didn't deserve the name and who were - to be frank - bad fucking bastards. On the flipside I know lots of children who have happy, secure, loving relationships with parents who practised controlled crying over a short period of time. So I guess my point livvy is that this is a very highly charged issue on MN - but in the real world I think you would be surprised at the people who do CC. It's a deeply personal decision but your well-being is important too.

On a practical note I totally agree with Squid that you should look at getting help, be it from a maternity nurse, family member or your DF. I guess since I'm on a roll and have probably already caused offence all round I will just be direct - your DF needs to step up. You are not a single parent. Are you sharing nights? We split nights here 6-1, 5-2 or 4-3 depending on how things are going so I ALWAYS get at least 1 or 2 nights a week where DH sleeps in with the bean. He is working FT AND working on a separate project - he's busy in other words but he wouldn't dream of leaving me to do all the nights. You need some sleep too.

Anyway, this turned into an essay - but sending good sleep vibes all round x

And on BFing / weightloss - anecdotally a few people I know said they lost more weight at 6-9 months when beans were partly weaned than they did when FT BFing - maybe because body doesn't need to hoard as much fat? Living in hope here... :o

firstTime I found CS recovery tougher than expected BUT having lunch today with friend who ended up having emergency CS AND had massive PPH afterwards (crash team type stuff) she STILL said she would rather have a CS next time - as would I. I had a CS to avoid these complications - because of my medical history (surgery) I was more at risk of having bad tearing and continence issues. I can honestly say that I can't notice any real difference down below and for that reason the CS was worth the pain, even though I hated the few weeks of recovery.

Oops sorry firsttime cross posted, pelvic floor reminder must have seemed a bit insensitive! Just remembered for first time in days is all...

Yeah I read a lot of stuff on MN where people were like, "Oh yeah I was out on my bike / riding a horse / lifting weights 3 days after CS and just took a couple of paracetamol" etc etc and thought, "Great! This will be a doddle!" To my horror it actually hurt a lot afterwards Lovely doc at hospital was v sympathetic but seemed a bit confused that I was surprised at this. His words: 'People throw around the idea of having a CS very easily - but to us, we do actually class it as major abdominal surgery.' As it transpired I had retained placenta and low level infection which probably slowed my healing down and caused pain to come back after it had been going away nicely - so I'm probably not the textbook case :o And I was in awe of one girl at BFing group who was out strolling about and driving within a couple of weeks!

Angelico I'm a clinical psychologist and I'm just telling her what we would or wouldn't recommend in the NHS. Crying it out is not recommended for babies this young.