October 2012: onwards, upwards and rolling over?

[YompingJo]

Is this part 5 already? Where did that time go?

I'm literally exhausted. We've had 4 weeks now of shitty sleep - no more than 2/3 hours at a time and many nights of DD waking every hour. Last night she couldn't settle, she was awake about 6 times (I lost count after a while). I probably got about 4/5 hours broken into 1 or 2 hour chunks. I feel like I really can't function today.

We had some friends stay at the weekend who have a 1 year old and they spent their whole time giving us advice (basically making me feel like a shit mum who has made loads of mistakes resulting in crappy sleep) - 'don't you use a dummy?' 'Hasn't she got a comforter?' ' do you wind her properly?' 'Will she not just fall asleep by herself?' 'Make sure she's awake at 7 every morning' Etc etc. This all got too much when my friend left saying 'you've got to sort it out otherwise you'll make a rod for your own back!'
Aaagghhh.

Now feel shattered and completely demoralised. I cannot work out why DD isn't sleeping. She naps really well in the day, we have a loose routine, bedtime routine etc...Just don't know what to do. DH is not particularly sympathetic. He has his own business and is very very busy working. My mum hasn't been over to help in ages - she works part-time and is always out with friends for coffee/looking after my niece and nephew in her spare time.

Just tired and upset and need some sleep. Driving myself crazy trying to work out what the problem is.

oh dear olivess, that feeling of total exhaustion is absolute killer. we had many weeks like that and the thing which kept me going was my mum spending one night a week here. I would leave her with dd and lots of milk and I would get just that one good night's sleep.

I don't know of this will be helpful or not... but my baby just started sleeping better spontaneously. It just happened when she was ready. Sometimes she regresses to waking every 2 hours and I can't work out why because I haven't done anything different. So I can only conclude that they just sleep through when they're ready. When they do, its not because you've done something right. And when they don't, it's not because you've done something wrong. They just do these things stubborn little bastards.

Are you able to nap during the day or is that not an option?

Gawd Olivess. Nothing like smug friends. Well their baby is only 1. Plenty of time for things to go tits up there. (hope that makes u giggle a little devilishly.....!)

That is crap for you. Our sleep patterns are unpredictable at best. Nights back now to 2 wakings but I'm assuming nothing. Unlike your 'friends' can we assume you have tried dummy, winded etc? I really can offer you NI other advice, especially as she sleeping well in day. Only, is she sleeping too much in day? I know that's not really possible, but worth asking. Is she warm enough? Too warm? Our little DS can't settle if he too warm. Is there a draught? Try night light instead of darkness and visa versa? Is your basket close enough to pat her tummy when she wakes?

I don't know. Think we all realised by now that so much of this is chance.

Slightly better here. Glad to read all your advice on 90-120 min gap between sleeps. I've been watching clock and baby carefully and getting him down after about 90 mins, then he sleeps within about 15. Avoiding the godforsaken swing by putting him in pushchair ( which he delighted with even awake) and pushing up and down til he sleeps. Not perfect solution but is major progress. Have not had the screaming tiredness for few days. Is this maybe helping him at night now?

But as we know, a few days does not a change make.

Good luck Olivess. Hopefully someone has been where u are before and can offer non smug constructive advice.

X

Oh olivess it sounds like you're not getting much support from anyone! I'm sure you've tried all manner of things but for us co sleeping really seems to comfort ds. I could never get him to self settle any time except when I lie him next to me - it's like the physical proximity helps?

Poor you :( It will get better! Don't give your friends a second thought. I'm sure they didn't mean to be so condescending and would be horrified if they knew they'd made you feel like a shot mum - which you're not by the way!!! At this point I would do whatever it takes to get her to sleep and fick this concept of rods and backs. I don't believe that at all and while I do think babies need routines for the structure because maybe their little lives seem chaotic to them right now, whatever that structure is is entirely down to you. The No Cry Sleep Solution is awesome for implementing longer term solutions but in the meantime I would do whatever makes it work. Hot water bottles are a freakin revelation for me - cuddling ds to sleep and recreating my warmth in his basket. I also use lavender in his bath and have a chamomile oil burner that while doesn't help sleep certainly seems to relax him.

And if nothing works and it's just something she grows out of, know that it will pass and that you are a fantastic mum. Don't let others grind you down. My Dh being self employed said virtually the same to me - he needed to concentrate and be fit for work do I had to be the one taking it for the team sleeplessness wise. It sucks, it's isolating but I just began to accept it which made it easier to deal with.

Thanks everyone. I've tried lots of things - she doesn't like a dummy, white noise not very successful, I tried expressing quite late and can't get much out at the best of times and she won't take a bottle either. I've experimented with naps - waking her up after 2 hours at lunchtime or sometimes letting her go longer/shorter - the length of nap doesn't seem to make a difference.

The thing is she likes being held. The first month she was unputdownable so we started co-sleeping which is fine. She likes being near me like you said -oreniishi and can self-settle in bed with my arm around her. Thing is I like a bit of space and really wanted a bit of my bed back. I do still bring her in with me once it gets to 4/5am.

She's currently sleeping on me in bed, I had a little sleep as well then put her down next to me and she screamed, picked her up and she's fast asleep again! Velcro baby!

Honestly the hot water bottle really helped me put down my Velcro baby! The heat keeps him asleep.

Are u doing baby massage Olivess? I'm making a real effort to have more chilled evenings. After hour dinner DS has massage and story and skin time on mummy and daddy. He really is quite chilled thru all this! Then has bath and then in to our bedroom.

All those articles we've seen over past week hav been controversial among us, but the part about baby needing fed to sleep and then needing that each time they waken has made me think. It's hard cos they are still small and ??? When hungry or just waking?? But I am trying to keep that in mind going forward. I love the last feed when he goes to sleep but ?? if that is too strong a sleep association going forward? That's why I'm slowly introducing a comforter.

Hour dinner??? If only!! Our dinner!

it sounds like you're doing everything right and for now she just needs to be near you. this too shall pass...

my baby's 'I'm working really hard on pushing out a massive poo' face and collection of grunts has been making me laugh for the last 10 minutes.

thank you for your comfort about my sex meltdown yesterday. I was honest with DH because he thought he'd made me cry so I told him that it was just the fact that I don't feel like myself and my sex drive has gone and things just don't feel the same. I know I just need time after my body went through so much (and I didn't even need stitches or anything).

sex is also giving me a bit of a nightmare because my periods came back at 6 weeks but they've never been regular (even before pregnancy). I'm on the mini pill but have just had to do a just-in-case pregnancy test. negative, thank fuck. I'm just wondering how often I'll have to do this with my stupid cycle...

right, better sort this poo out.

Doing massage before bed, quiet change into sleepsuit, cuddle with daddy, then final feed in bed before being put in cot. Have made it very calm, have also just started introducing comforter. The problem isn't so much getting to sleep - it's staying asleep. huffle I was also worried about association of feeding to sleep so now only feed at night when it's been over 3 hours since last feed. The rest of the wake ups I'm just comforting her back to sleep.

Does this sound like teething - twice now she has woken up screaming and is pacified only by me putting my finger in her mouth which she chomps down on then falls asleep!

oreniishi we were doing hot water bottle but for some reason not in the last week. Will start again, thanks for the reminder.

Sorry Olivess, I'm risking being a pain here......

Have you tried laying her down on your dressing gown?? When DH being particularly clingy and wont let me put him asleep on sofa or bed I put mu dressy down first as a blanket. I also put my vest in basket at start. But not now he can grab things.

huffle you're not being pain! Was just thinking same thing, I'm wearing my dressing gown which she is very snuggly on. Not sure I can get it off though to put her down on it at the moment! But this might work, although is it not dangerous to do this at night with SIDs etc...

Ladies

Looking for a bit of reassurance here. You know about me and my rubbish silent migraines. But I am really struggling now. Can't concentrate, head feels as though it's stuffed with cotton wool, no appetite (though I lose my appetite when stressed about anything), vaguely lightheaded.

Is this sleep deprivation? Last night pretty typical - DD didn't get off to sleep until 11 due to excitement of sparkly Eiffel Tower visible from window, I slept soon afterwards. DS woke for snacks about every hour from 1.30 onwards but we are sharing a bed so I just had to latch him on and drop off again. Woke properly at 7.45. So total amount of sleep not bad but regularly interrupted. No rest during day because of DD. is this what's killing me? Trying to drink more water today in case I'm dehydrated.

Also fretting about job, of course. But small beer compared to feeling of pushing brain through bog.

Olivess - we must be in the same place! Do you have brain fogbog too? I feel I can manage anything as long as I know it's not the MS. But nothing physical going on there.

Beccus - DS four months now and the weight is coming off again. Now somewhere between sizes 10 and 12. I was a 12 pre-children and a 10 after DD. so hang in there and don't deprive yourself of calories when you need them to make milk. My advice would be to try to snack on vaguely nutritious stuff if you can stock up on it - by which I mean tasty sandwiches, nuts, dried fruit etc rather than my weaknesses of cake, crisps and chocolate. x

Orenishii - same with my DH. It was a condition of our having a second child that I do all the nights. So I have.

He has to go to Singapore, New York and DC during Feb. and of course the in-laws are off to Florida for some 'much-needed sun'. How am I going to cope?

elpis think we probably are feeling the same. After a particularly bad night I feel very foggy-headed and often have a headache. Feel significantly better after some fresh air (despite the driving wind/rain today). My DH is going to Seattle next week so I'm with you there as well. Except you have 2 children so massive respect to you. Don't know how you have the energy.

olive am cross with your friend on your behalf by all means try whatever you can to improve things but be aware that some babies are just shit sleepers. it's the luck of the draw imo and it will get better. the struggle through the tiredness is bloody awful though, you have my sympathy.

elpis are you worried you may be ill or having ms symptoms? I never lose my appetite so can't comment there but light-headedness etc all sound like tiredness to me. hope your managing to enjoy your time away. and sympathy on the dh and pil thing. I'm very lucky that dh is making every effort to avoid travel. but ds1's childminder is away for 4 weeks soon and I am officially terrified

anyone noticed how enormous m&s babygros are? ds2 is long in most but drowns in these! loads of growing room, fab.

thank you for thoughts on sleep funch and orenishii. the trouble with having a ds1 around is that ds2 doesn't tend to get any sleep after ds1's nap, so is awake from about 2.30pm. by ds1's bedtime he is past it and just has to sleep. I try to get him to nap, but apparently ds1 is just too damn exciting. it's only getting worse is ds2 gets older and nosier.

16wks seems to be a growth spurt chez babypaving. feeding like a right little piggy which makes me very happy! I'm so tired though. I've eaten an obscene amount of chocolate this week. hate myself for it, why do I have no self control? or self respect for that matter trying to check abdominal muscles to see if there's much of a gap but I honestly can't find them. bloody hell

just re-read that post and sounds rather sanctimonious with loads of typos. I give up sorry all

crazy I've noticed that about m and s... mothercare ones too. the 0-3 months are still far too big for my baby and she's 3 months old and on the 75th centile! I washed then a couple of times to shrink them a bit.

crazy funch elpis and olivess and anyone else suffering, massive sympathies on the lack of sleep. Last night was epic for us, and not in a good way. Managed to put him down awake and he nodded off. Felt very smug. Ha, that'll learn me. He woke up at midnight and fed, on and off, until almost 3am!!! Would not be put down or comforted. Then woke up every hour, fed for 40 minutes, slept for 20 minutes, then up again for another feed. He was grouchy all morning and wouldn't be put down for more than 5 minutes. Tried to get him to nap but he only had two 15 minute naps (I'm aware this is good for some but not normal for us). Took him out in buggy and he has been sleeping since about 3.30 - almost two and a half hours. This was good as the neighbour who was meant to visit on Friday came round today instead so meant I could chat. It was great actually, despite being sleep deprived, as she is a former Guardian journalist and could offer lots of advice on going freelance. It was nice to know someone else is out here and making it work as a freelance... anyway I'm rambling.

londonmrss Try not to get too worried about things. It's still really early days and our bodies are programmed to not want to reproduce again yet, so I think what you are going through is completely normal. I don't think anyone who has given birth in the last few months has a great sex life yet. It will take a while but it will come back, but I imagine only if you are feeling relaxed and not stressing about it too much.

yomping I am the worst person to give advice, because I can emit pure venom in the heat of the moment towards my poor long-suffering DH, but when you both have a quiet moment maybe you could mention to yours how it makes you feel, and what you are scared of your DD feeling, when he lets her cry? I'm sure no harm will come to her in the long-run but if he knows how much it means to you to not let her cry too hard, then he might change? (I realise how ridiculous a concept 'a quiet moment' is right now)

elpis I actually hallucinated a few weeks back when sleep deprivation was really kicking in. It sounds like what you describe is normal. I definitely think drinking lots of water helps, I was getting really light-headed a while back and now I'm making sure I fill up two 1.5litre bottles of water at the beginning of the day and make sure I finish them by then end. Hope you are enjoying Paris!

My birthday weekend was great. Friends turned up on Friday night bearing enormous chocolate cake (really, really banking on breastfeeding weightloss kicking in soon - my arse is now the size of Alaska) then DH took Smorglet for the day on Saturday so I could meet a friend for lunch and a spot of shopping (I couldn't face trying on anything, I bought a nice body cream instead) and another friend cooked us lunch on Sunday. She was our neighbour when we lived in the centre of town. It was weird being back again, I really loved that apartment. It was a proper old 17th century French building in quite a smart part of town and I felt very glamourous living there, but it was not practical with a baby. Still, it'll be nice to take him back there one day and show him where he was started.

It's a year since I found out I was pregnant too, and almost a year since I joined the ante-natal thread. Does anyone still have a link to the old threads? I'd love to read back and see what insignificant shit I was worrying about back then....

Ah, smorgs, former Guardian journalist? I think you just described my future... Might as well out myself now my job has gone down the tube.

[wallows like an old hippo]

Thank you for writing such reassuring things. On Eurostar home. DD has iPad and DS sleeping.

elpis. What cunts. Shan't buy Guardian in protest.

Thanks BoraBora. But tbh that's been the problem. Anyway, one of the Munsnet founders is married to the G's deputy editor so I'm going to have to be tactful from now on.