October 2012 babies - over here nobbers!

[Smorgs]

This really will be the thread where all our babies start sleeping through the night... right?!

Oh and forgot to say to yomping - we were having issues with bath time. DD screaming in the bath having previously been very happy in it. We gave her a bath this morning instead of the usual evening one and she loved it! Back to smiles etc and lots of kicking. So if you've not tried it already might be worth trying a bath at a different time of the day. Baby olives was obviously telling us that she hates evening baths! Think she's quite stubborn - she knows what she likes and doesn't like.

Likes - boob, being held whilst sleeping, bouncy chair, pram, morning baths, sling, music, the Hoover and hair dryer, nursery rhymes even with my terrible voice
Hates - bottles, dummies, evening baths, napping in the day in crib, car seat

Olivess just about to PM you about FB group!

I think that's it - being constantly in their faces trying to amuse them all the time is the other end of an extreme spectrum that also includes leaving them to cry. I totally agree that babies and children need their own space, to be left to their own devices to explore, knowing there is a care provider close by if they need them. It's how they will learn further independence.

That's where we fall over ourselves, i think, about attachment theory - that we must sacrifice ourselves at the alter of our babies. And it's not that at all - CC talks a lot about tending to children "without judgment, displeasure, or invalidation of his needs, yet showing no undue concern nor making him the constant center of attention" and that's the crux of it for me - always being there, as soon as I can but not in a hand-flappy, rushing to him to the detriment of myself. I don't want him to gr

weird - only posted part of it!

That's where we fall over ourselves, i think, about attachment theory - that we must sacrifice ourselves at the alter of our babies. And it's not that at all - CC talks a lot about tending to children "without judgment, displeasure, or invalidation of his needs, yet showing no undue concern nor making him the constant center of attention" and that's the crux of it for me - always being there, as soon as I can but not in a hand-flappy, rushing to him to the detriment of myself. I don't want him to grow up thinking he is the centre of everything. But neither do I want to instil in him a sense that he does not have my attention and care when he needs or wants it. And you know, there is a massive difference between leaving your baby playing happily for a little while, and leaving them in a playpen unstimulated and uninvolved in the world around him. That's all I want to avoid and the theory of attachment is supposed to do exactly that londonmrss - creating a loving, trusting, fulfilled bond between you so that your baby has a secure base from which to explore. You all sound like you're doing that, so as mentioned before, so many people do AP stuff without knowing or caring WHAT it's called :)

bora like you I rush to DS with hands flapping, in my head screeching BUT WHAT IF..!! and I find it very hard not to get anxious. So these papers, theories and books all remind me what our original starting point was. I just want to involve him more in my world, day to day activities and being inclusive rather than thinking of creating - literally - a pen to contain him to separate myself from him. When I imagine my parenting I think of indigenous tribes, of how the babies sit squatting next to their mothers, fiddling with pebbles with such concentration while their mothers carry out their tribal duties, you know? That sense of inclusion in the things I'm doing - the washing up - and DS is close by, either doing his own thing or copying or helping me - but I have neither stopped my entire world/duties/needs for the sake of his constant attention nor have I shut him away and created distance between us.

Re slings - we just tried out loads and have about four. The kari me and the Close were good for new-newborn closeness, I found the BabyBjorn really good for out and about and we have a woven fabric one for the rucksack carry - which is a really good position for involvement. The baby can peer over your shoulder at what you're doing and feel included, but can turn their heads into your back when they've had too much forward facing stimulation. It also means you can get on and do stuff without the tipping aspect of front carrying.

i have the same problems with the Montessori nursery but put his name down anyway because who knows what our situation will be in three years. He's definitely going to a Montessori infant/primary school though.

Wow this is possibly the longest post I've written on here! Just so you know, I don't think there's any controversial approach :) I might not agree or do the same but it's patently clear we all love our children to pieces and are doing the very best we think we should. But - and this is probably an uncomfortable truth - I think we are pressured into doing things, and are told that we should do these things that are for the convenience of others or ourselves when it's not always best for our children, which is different to not making them the centre of everything.

Mixed day here - boyfriend is ill and whingy and stuck in bed and I'm tired of looking after him and jess and I really admire single mums right about now, cause doing all the babycare all day and night is fucking tiring, and I have a relatively easy baby.

That said I think she is having a growth spurt (she's about four months now...) as she is feeding loads, and waking up at night more than usual (not complaining though, we have had it easier than most). She woke up 3 times last night. She doesn't need feeding, but needs dummy/shush/cuddles for half an hour or so. Yawn.

Had a massage today (booked it ages ago) and boyfriend insisted I went, so I left him and jess in bed. My massage girl was asking me about motherhood/the birth and strangely enough I could only find positive things to say. So that was good. And the massage was bliss, my shoulders and neck and back where I hunch over breastfeeding.

I feel so so much better about my birth these days. No intention of getting pregnant any time soon, but feel surprisingly ok at the thought of labouring again one day! second ones are fucking quicker right

Having said that I've just had a massive cry about how me and boyfriend have no couple time and I don't feel sexy or desired any more. meh.

I mostly go with orenishi's approach it seems, but I hadn't done any reading about it. I only read one book before having a baby, it was a cartoon book on how to breastfeed... (And it was brilliant, reassuring and non-judgemental and features cartoons of women with realistically saggy bodies! - The Food of Love)

I think I am naturally quite chilled out about babies though. My parents were very hands off parents and I was very independent very young, me and my older brother ran completely wild really ... I am of the opinion that kids are tough, and dangers are overstated. And I'm all for a bit of communal upbringing and not making kids - what's the acronym on here? - my Precious First Born? Lots of love, but also just getting on with my own stuff, and sure baby can tag along. Also I am a doctor and we notoriously don't believe our kids are ill unless they are dying

I don't know anything about nurseries. Not keen to send jess to any special kind of school though, one of the things I like about sheffield is the people. I'd rather invest (my child, my time, my input) in a local school however crap and try and improve it for all the kids in the area than remove jess to some elite school, if that makes sense. 90% of what kids learn is at home anyway. School is for social skills. I am aware my views aren't typical.

blather, blather. Boyfriend has slid out of bed and taken jess for half an hour, and I am having a glass of

He looks a bit better and I am hoping to get out in the peaks for some proper snow action tomorrow. We'll see.

Lisbeth - I can see where it could be confusing!! DH and I are both Kiwis. My IL are in NZ. DMIL came all the way over on her own (no mean feat, as she's quite a scaredy cat!) a week before DS was born. We're in NZ right now until the start of February!

As for the kids moving overseas... I guess I moved so much as a kid, and DH and both of his siblings live overseas, it seems normal to us. Certainly it's quite a normal thing for Kiwis to live overseas long-term as adults - it's a small isolated country after all. If the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, it's likely DS will either have itchy feet (or in DH's case) specialise in a job that makes it difficult to live anywhere but a few places in the world! So I don't have the luxury of hoping/expecting my children will live anywhere close to me as adults. To be honest I just can't even imagine a situation where I'd see adult children every few days or weeks (other than Skype, obviously), it's so far from what DH and I are used to! I do want us to be settled in one place by the time DS is 10 until he starts university - I moved countries just before starting high school and it was very very hard. Easier to do it when they're younger.

DH and I were chatting last night and even though we've really loved this long holiday in NZ, we're not likely to come back until Christmas 2014. Don't think I'll be mentioning that to DMIL, or she'll freak out such are the sometimes very hard realities of living overseas.

Hmmm ok by the sounds of things I am a bit slack when it comes to parenting theory!! I had not thought about this stuff in as much detail as many of you When he seems cheerful and I need to get stuff done I leave him on his mat with toys, or on his bouncy chair (outside on the sunny deck at the moment, to look at flowers and the trees!). If he gets grizzly I call out to him or come and give him a tickle, and that usually keeps him going for the 10 minutes or so until I'm finished doing what I'm doing. Not sure if I'm leaving him too long or too little to explore on his own. He seems happy anyway, and we get lots of cuddles during the day! Going to try some of the games suggested in The Wonder Weeks for Week 12.

Snap, squid! Yeah I've been having the unsexy/unloved feelings too. I've basically said to DH that we need to make time for it and we need to have more sex!!

He's been a bit freaked out by all the changes to my body. I told him I still look pretty damn good, and pretty hot for a slightly tubby post-baby girl. And that he needs to get the fuck over being worried about my body, and be grateful to it for giving him his son. He seemed to appreciate my honesty, I think....

Hope you get out to the snow tomorrow!

Orenishii I am keen to back carry but failed enormously to get her on my back with my mei tai the other day. I will try the rucksack carry with my woven wrap - how hard did you find it to get baby up there? Can you do it alone or do you have help wrapping baby on your back?

Squid I'm in total agreement about attending local schools (though I'm mindful that is an easier stance for me to take as a highly educated, relatively affluent middle class person).

I am interested in Montessori nurseries not because of the educational philosphy, but because of the extremely low turn over of staff, who are also well educated and paid well. It's those traits that contribute to good childcare! When people are respected for what they do and supported well, they do a better job. This is how things are run in much of Europe I believe.

Anyway, I got freaked out that I was thinking about weaning when DD was 11 weeks old, and here I am talking about schools. Nooooo!!

Squid you make an interesting point about the support of local state schools. I'm not a poncey snob, promise. It's not about the relative excellence or crapness of local schools, it's just that I don't always think mainstream education works for everyone - it definitely didn't for me and the Montessori approach jives with DH and I more than our country's conventional approach.

Funchum I have yet to perfect the rucksack holds. There's good demos on you tube. You sort of swing them up in a hammock style'

Oh dear. About 12 pages to catch up on.. Here we go!

I'm 'arff way through. Nearly there.

Huffle Did I say 89cm? I'm not sure what I meant there.. DD is definately 2 foot though. She's in 3-6month sleepsuits already.. and is only a couple of inches shorter than her 6-month old cousin!!

I can't remember who was saying about painful let down, but yes, mine is quite painful and extremely powerful. DD has actually choked three times this week and has stopped breathing for hours for a few seconds, its horrible, and then she coughs and screams at me and looks so hurt, as if i've done it deliberately!!

FirstTime My physio appointment (also had third degree tear, lucky you) was exactly the same. Not a single mention of pelvic floor exercises.

Borabora We are having a piss up naming party too!!! At our local on 9th February, you are all invited I'm doing it really to just introduce her to the wider family... Although they've pretty much all met her. We have asked certain people to be godparents (even though she isn't being christened, but whatever yeah) and so that day is so that we can recognise that.

Right, 7 more pages to go!

Right fully caught up.
I think some posters are trying so hard to do it all right - i dont mean to insult. Lots of good advice on here so I wont repeat.
Wantan my anxiety goes from 0 to 100 in ten seconds of (unnecessary) baby crying, and i would freak at nobber dad for faffing about. That said baby has to be let cry a little as i have a 2yr old. And i need the loo.

We had a small family christening today . I will figure out how to get pics on fb next week. Dear sis cooked loads of food. I am wowed at how much family came to help. Mum sil. Fab .
Vagina less sore but i smile when i hear anyone talking about a low libido. I think I am the least likely candidate for sex on here.

Paul has grown like a mushroom. Dh commented this evening this babygro is too small.(Dh did not use that word as he does not know what a baby gro is). Born 24Sept he is almost 4 months and that is 3-6mo clothes. I will be pulling out the 6-9 months next week. I have loads of 'outfits' left since ds1. I have never put these on baby. I just love onesies as i call them. I know there will be no dc3for me and i want to hold back time- keep babyhood.

For this squid I really admire your ability to live in the moment. You are joyful and kind and wise.

I got my bumbo second hand at a baby market. I've put baby in it for short times - 5 mins max. There's almost a suction effect when he is fully in there but I don't think he is strong enough to be in it long.

I'm going to another baby market tomorrow with my eye up for a trip trapp .

Yomping thinking of you too.
I have kinda good and bad news. Good news is baby wont remember you losing it. Bad news is they wont remember the THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF REFLECTIVE DEVOTED PARENTING you have given either. I know you are doing a great job.

Oh yes. My final bit of me me me.
Like other posters i was really fed up of my appearance a few weeks back. I felt sweaty, I had a cough, I had a sore vagina, I couldn't exercise. I was wearing old tracksuits . Cue a makeover !
Hair cut and highlighted.
Appointment for new glasses - thinking of having rimless sihlouettes .
Ordered bf dress and 2 tops off net.
Signed up for a make up night class .

Saggy bits remain unchanged but I feel better!

Oof, finally caught you all up!!

Londonmrss I hope today was a better day, and tomorrow is even better, that sounds unbelievably shit. I totally get what you said about the whole-shaking baby thing. Obviously, we would all stop ourselves getting to that point, but its easy to see how it happens. Unfortunately.
I also have the same approach as you.. DD prefers to sleep on her own to be perfectly honest. And we have lots of cuddles in the day, but sometimes she gets agitated being in my arms but will quite happily lay and play in her gym for twenty minutes or so. Gives me time to do the washing up or hoover.. one thing at a time. If she cries I go to her immediately, or call out and talk to her. This seems to keep her happy.

huffle Come set up camp with me- No exercise here either. I walk the dog, but thats about it. I do miss it though. I did a street-fighting/karate/martial art mix class from the age of 8 until 16. One belt behind a black belt too hides smug grin but gave up when I started a-levels and my job. And the people running it kept changing things and made it alot harder than what it was. I really do miss it though, it was great for when you'd had a shit day, kicking the shit out of men twenty years older than you. I hope to get back into something similar.. am on the lookout for a kickboxing class, will be good to try something slightly different.

whispers so the gods of sleep DD doesn't hear me DD has slept through the night for the last FOUR NIGHTS RUNNING. 10 until 5, 10-4, 10-8, 9-7.30!!!!!!!!!!!! I have absolutely no idea what i've done differently, but it seems to have coincided with her learning where her thumb is and sucking her thumb when her dummy has fallen out.
I don't check her that often.. I feel like I should but then I know I'd end up just sitting there and watching her constantly. I am constantly paranoid that she'll stop breathing though..

I spoke to my Grandma yesterday, she put my mum on solids at 6 weeks. I kid you not!! Joining in on the great weaning debate.. I intend to start giving her solids at 4 months.. but will probably breast feed for as long as she still wants it. DM said the want for BF seemed to just peter out and soon found that she was doing a night feed to get us to sleep.

Sorry its taken me so long to catch up. I really have been thinking of you all.
DSIL left last Friday, I'm really missing her and crazy fucking jealous at their 46 degree heat, bloody australians, however, my best friend left brisbane an hour ago and is on her way here; she arrives on monday. Its been two years since I saw her last, (although we talk every day) I can't WAIT.

Squid Hows your Gran? Thinking of you. Its shit when it gets to that point where they are just hanging on. Hope she is comfortable and surrounded by her loved ones. I am sure she loved meeting Jess. Xxxx

Booked a flight to see my Great Grandad in scotland over easter weekend.. He turns 90 this year and it will probably be the last time I ever see him. He's deteriorated so much. Dreading it slightly, I love him to bits, but it'll still be a wrench leaving him. But he has to meet his great great grandaughter at least once right?
Does anyone know if I can put DD in sling and that doesnt count as luggage?

lisbeth DD is 9 weeks on Sunday and the 3-6 month sleepsuits fit her perfectly. Which I guess means she'll grow out of them in another month!!

Cherry Hope you are enjoying your weekend away! That sounds incredible!!

I think it's just fine to let a baby be by himself. We as new mothers put ourselves under a lot of pressure to entertain and stimulate our babies - partly, I think, because that's our job for the moment, and jobs are all about meeting goals and being always-on, aren't they? Actually, our babies are among the luckiest humans ever born: they're comfortable, well-fed, usually cured when sick and loved by their parents. That combination of happy circumstances is pretty rare in human history. I know DS loves being held, so I carry and cuddle him when I can, but he's also happy just watching us do things. I smile at him a lot and he chuckles back. But on those rare occasions when DD doesn't want me to entertain her, I try not to feel guilty if I'm reading.

FWIW, Montessori nurseries do tend to be expensive. That's no doubt partly because they pay staff better, which is admirable, but it does make them a bit elitist. The one nearest us doesn't accept childcare vouchers and won't let parents visit kids during sessions, or help out: they think it very important to leave the children to their own devices and play without interference. That's not really my style, despite what I've written above... I don't want to fall into the anecdotal trap, but the 4yo girl in our road who goes there is decidedly bad-tempered and antisocial. I'm much happier with the more open ethos of DD's preschool, and the 'voluntary contributions' we make (ahem) are a tenth of the price of the Montessori's fees, which has shorter terms too. However, I shouldn't generalise. Another neighbour sends her child to a different Montessori nursery and her DD is charming.

I was much more worried about DD's education when she was younger - I think it came from my reluctance to entrust her to anyone else, and PFB syndrome. I'm calmer about it now. As squid says, home environment is a bigger influence on how well kids do than school.

squid - The Food of Love is great and unlike anything else in the baby book genre. I've commissioned Kate Evans a couple of times and we email each other sometimes. She's had another baby since writing the book and said it was VERY different second time round...

At first I was delighted when DS jumped from the 25th to the 50th centile, then the 75th. Now he's approaching the 91st. He will be four months next week and he's filling out a 6-9mo sleepsuit - and not a Gap one either. (IME Gap stuff is tiny. I'm having trouble packing him into a 6-12mo Gap snowsuit.) Frankly, his upper arms lack any sort of tone. I know this baby fat will come off when he starts moving around, but he really is disconcertingly large. Did he come out sooner than he wanted (39 weeks)? Does that explain the turbo-charged fat accumulation?

Elpis, whilst I hear what you're saying about elitism, that's something I'd be willing to tackle at school age. I want to use the best child care I can afford when she's 11 months old, and I don't know anyone else wouldn't?

I guess that for me is the difference between education and childcare. I won't pay for her to be educated (above others) but I will pay for her to be well looked after.

Loving all these big babies!! Makes me feel more mainstream!!!

Does anyone have any advice or suggestions on cot mobiles?? In my pre baby naïveté I thought they were at best a gimmick, at worst a sleeping crutch. Given the wonder if Ewan the sheep and our heavy reliance on swing with weird noises, I now accept that electronic intervention is not necessarily evil!!!!

Struggling to get DS to sleep in day still and he is content to lie in cot when tired but wint really go to sleep once he realises he is proper tired and starts to cry. Swing then knocks him out ( not literally, obviously.....)

So I'm thinking a mobile over cot with sounds might lull him to sleep? Worth a try.

Anyone using one already for an otherwise difficult to sleep baby? Or used one with DC1?

I'm off for a kip as he was up 3 times in night and I actually feel like not slept at all. Ewan clearly didn't quite do it for him last night!

Completely agree, BoraBora, and that's why we spent most of my salary on DD's childcare until I had DS. I think the ratio of children to carer is v important at that age and am dismayed the govt wants to relax it. When I said 'elitist' I guess I meant that only the better-off can afford the £3k/ term Montessori fees and not to be able to use their 15h/wk free entitlement once the child is three. But DD's preschool is for over-3s so it isn't really a fair comparison, financially, since most Montessori starts at 2.

Glad you wrote that, huffle, as rereading my post I realise it could have come across as insufferably smug... Apologies to those on this thread who've been worried about weight gain and hassled about it. It's not as though I can feed him any less. I've just been surprised at how big he's become. It shows how different they all are.

Hey peeps! I've tried to read through all but I've missed so much I will never get caught up Sending all a hug and words of encouragement!

Life in summary...

• Bean is nearly 17 weeks. No intention of weaning just yet as she's happy with the boob.
• Sleep regression. After a month of 12 hour sleeps, Bean has now reverted to waking for a night feed, sometimes two. Generally more unsettled at night, noisy etc.
• Bean is a crap napper. Sleeps about 10-11hrs ON (although with wake ups now) but then only has 2 - 3 x 40 min naps. She can get really cranky so it isn't enough but she just stays wide awake unless she wants to go to sleep.
• Teething comes and goes.
• Third jabs done thank God!
• Hair fell out in handfuls for a couple of weeks there but seems to have eased.
• We are having a 'welcome service' for her next month, followed by a meal. Just for close family which is still about a thousand people given size of DH's family
• I got the dreaded D&V / norovirus on Fri. Stuff coming out of both ends at once, bleugh! Still feel achy and fluey and faintly nauseous.
• No snow here - I feel robbed! :o Can see some on the hills though.
• Lisbeth Good news is baby wont remember you losing it. Bad news is they wont remember the THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF REFLECTIVE DEVOTED PARENTING you have given either. This word for word! I got angry on Thursday after 5 nights of broken sleep / Bean going mental suddenly and inexplicably, said FFS really angrily and DH said, 'She's only a little baby!' My response after not killing him was 'And I am only fucking human! And for 23hrs and 58mins every day I am the soul of patience but seriously WTAF??!!' (she was tired and had skipped a nap)
• Agonising over work / career break / how to juggle everything next year.
• Holding fire on TTC for a few months (although the D&V put me off - even though I didn't get morning sickness this time round, just thought shit what if I get it next time).

Sorry this is lengthy Going to go pick through the cupboard for bland, non vomit-inducing food... xo