Brooking no argument for babies who sleep, eat, smile and behave perfectly at all times. Yeah right!

[scarletfingernail]

New thread, here we go...

Wow Scream you've worked so hard tonight and it seems as though little A has done well too. Well done both of you .

Hope you're not still hiding behind the end of the cot

Too hope you're feeling more betterer today . at giving away chocolate - you must be v v poorly!

Roll on Saturday Jaggy for no more 5:30 alarms. Does DH ever get up with R or try to settle him for you? Even if he needs feeding couldn't you do that and then give him to DH to get him back to sleep sometimes? You're a superhero clearly with night stuff and working!

Oh and thank you Scream - I think E must have seen your post because he did sleep a bit better after your stern look

scream no news is good news? Hope the night wasn't too bad.

F is much better over here and his sleep seems to be back on track but he had developed a funny rash. Once again I'm taking a deep breath and reminding myself that it is prob just a hangover from a virus and nothing life threatening...

Last dat at work today until the new year woo hoo!

Yay for the last day at work Hawthers - hope it flies by :-)

Hope the rash clears for F too - it's really common isn't it to get a rash with a virus? Didn't Too say that M had a viral rash. If you're worried though get it checked - just to put your mind at rest I think I would have to

And you're not a loon - I said so, and I'm always right. So there

it is honestly easier to do it myself at the moment biscuits, DH is really hard to wake up! 90% of the time R just falls back to sleep feeding so not too bad. i don't feel very superwoman. more like sleepywoman.

i could have had at least 2 more hours sleep! DS1 still asleep and i just had to get asleep DS2 out of the cot for a feed before i go out. you can guarantee that they'll both be up at 6 am when I'm not working though

glad you got more sleep with not too much crying. scream

Well Day 1 was a success in my book! After DD's half 3 wake up I went back to bed straight after posting on here. She didn't wake again until 6.45, and she's allowed her morning milk anytime after 6 so that was perfect. After her bottle I put her back in the cot, 30sec patting/lullaby then "left", and she was asleep in about 90sec She woke for the day at 8, chirpy as anything and clearly so much more rested than yesterday morning!

So overall there were lots of instant improvements:

• went to sleep by 9 with less than 5 mins of crying
• only 3 proper wake ups (the 10.30 one was my fault) with 3 clear hours between each waking
• back to sleep within 5mins (with less than 2mins of crying) each time she woke, without me getting her out of the cot at all
• perfect wake up time for the day

All-in-all the night was infinitely better than the night before when I wasn't doing all this. FAR less crying as well! Ironically!

I think that little A isn't in the typical cc baby position though, I think she already knew how to settle herself (as demonstrated for her Dad and her Nana) but she just wasn't willing to do it when I was available. So this technique of leaving little A is more about removing a disruption to her (me) rather than it being about teaching her to self-settle.

Gah. Well, one wake up for b last night, but doing pu/pd for over an hour with s from 3:30-4:30. Still only one feed though. Dh has been Doing It Wrong. Basically jiggling him back to sleep then putting him down pretty much dead asleep. If you want a job doing and all... It's still working, no feed and nothing from s til 7 something agree that but

Sounds fantastic scream - you're making cc sound v appealing and faster than pu/pd!! So far I'm hanging onto the positives by the skin of my teeth - that s is snotty but still eventually went back into his cot and slept nearly three hours. Hang in there, it sounds like afternoon nap time was hard but the rest not so bad?! Very encouraging anyway You're doing a good job.

Hooray for f being a bit better hawthers, I'll put money on it being a viral rash (because my dh says everything is viral- I was so suspicious when DD couldn't weight bear or walk, awful limp and he said "its a virus!" And was right), but don't hesitate to get it checked- you'll feel better I'm sure.

Hope your dc are recovering scarlet

too, they're so frustrating when they're wide awake in the night... Much sympathy.

Now, pass the glittery matchsticks ladies :)

Sorry! Little A pushed send! Clearly she's fed up of waiting for her breakfast!

I'd better go, I just wanted to say hooray for upcoming Xmas leave Hawthers and Jaggy!! I hope the last few hours/days fly by and it's the holidays before you know it!

Also No Brooking for little F's rash to be a v minor viral rash which vanishes asap!

Will be back later (when my little girl isn't trying to eat my face as compensation for there being no porridge in front of her!)

Half an hour, then an hour, of crying doesn't sound terribly traumatic. Did you have a book to follow? M has still got a cough and snotty nose, though - perhaps now is not the time to try it. Maybe I should wait until she's better.

Hawthers, M's rash is viral - she still has it but it's starting to fade. I did not totally panic on Monday and wake her up from a nap to do the glass test or anything, convinced that we both had meningitis and would die or have to have all our fingers and legs amputated like someone I saw on the Paralympics

M finally fell asleep at 2.45, then woke up again at 4.30. I took her to bed with me at that point and she slept until DH's alarm went off v loudly at 6.30. She then slept on top of me until nearly 9, but woke up grumpy and cross, so clearly not very rested.

Scream, I found this: www.nhs.uk/news/2012/09September/Pages/Controlled-crying-safe-for-babies.aspx

Too and Dream don't let me be any sort of encouragement for cc!! I feel guilty enough putting little A through it, I couldn't live with myself if I thought I was the reason any other babies (and Mummies) had to go through it!!

I think I've been getting off very lightly so far. Who knows if it'll continue?! I know I keep harping on about this as well, but I really think little A already knew how to settle herself, so this technique is just forcing her to use that skill.

Too I didn't buy any books, it was a bit of a spur-of-the-moment breaking point thing. Also I don't really agree with the philosophy behind cc so I'm pretty sure the books would just wind me up. Instead I just googled controlled crying, read the (very brief) descriptions on a couple of sites, and came away with the general impression that you just need consistency (regular times, sleep cues, and sleeping environment), a pre-arranged time limit, and a heart of stone :(

The first nap of the day has hit a few hiccups today. I took so long making a "special" breakfast Obvious feelings of guilt? Of course not. Ahem. that I couldn't get her back into her cot for 10 o'clock. Even though she was rubbing her eyes and sucking her thumb from 9.30, so she clearly wanted the nap. In the end I was able to put her down at 10.30. She then sat quietly in her cot, playing happily but sleepily with her bedtime toys (incidentally she really started to use her comforters for the first time last night), so she didn't cry once in the first ten minutes. I then went into check on her, and was greeted by a big smile and an almighty stench! Clearly she had been patiently waiting for me to sort out a horrendous nappy! It took ten minutes to do the change, so I put her back down at 10.50 (so so late ). She's been crying on and off for the last ten minutes :( I know it's because she's overtired now though. I feel so stupid for making her late for the ten o'clock nap! I knew I'd be useless at sticking to a routine!

I'm off to go and check on her again now. Sigh.

Thanks for the link Too! I did read that before starting this yesterday, I'm still a bit worried that all the excess adrenaline that comes from crying for extended periods could be detrimental to little A, but that study is comforting.

Fortunately, so far, DD has only cried for a long time over her naps. Last night she definitely cried less than on a normal night filled with failed (and highly unpopular!) transfers. So I'm hoping the adrenaline levels over the entire 24 hour period aren't any higher than usual. Plus, I'm desperately hoping that if I stay strong and consistent, within a few days there might be almost no crying. Wishful thinking?

I'm glad my parents told me that they left me to cry though, because I don't feel like I have any lasting traumatic effects from it [possibly deluded emoticon?] Certainly I don't remember it at all, it didn't affect my relationship with my parents in any way, and I continued to hit most developmental milestones early right through school (walking, talking, reading, writing, counting, etc).

Off to check on DD again... She's doing the 'cry for 2 mins, sleep for 2 mins' thing :( I'm so glad I have the video monitor. I couldn't bear it if I couldn't see that she's fine.

DD fell asleep within 3 minutes of my last check. So it took just over 20 minutes after the nappy change for her to go to sleep. Sigh. Clearly the naps are going to be stressful for a while, but at least it wasn't an hour! Plus I really feel it was my fault for delaying her nap. I want to make sure the afternoon nap is on time but I'm not sure if I should move it from 2pm to 3pm, considering how late this nap has been? Gah! I hate routines! I think I'll follow little A's cues, and put her down between 2 and 3, whenever she starts showing signs of tiredness.

Wow, I'm just all about mememe today aren't I?! I'm so sorry ladies. I've got so wrapped up in my own stresses I've been a rubbish No Brooker!

I have been keeping up with the many illnesses in NoBrookerVille. Poor little ones. I'm so glad M's rash is starting to fade Too. You definitely didn't overreact on Monday, it's so important to be vigilant about scary things. A simple glass test is the responsible thing to do, it takes almost no time, but could genuinely save a life on the rare occasions when it is meningitis. Sorry to hear M is still keeping you up (how are they so lively at night?!?!) but I'm No Brooking that both the illness and the disrupted sleep will pass ASAP! (Without resorting to cc!)

Dream PU/PD is such a labour of love! You're doing an amazing job, and your boys are responding to it! Hang in there! To teach your boys to sleep without leaving them to cry is a huge task, and nothing worth doing is easy (unfortunately!) so keep fighting the good fight! You're still my absolute idol - there are very few people in this world who could handle 3 teenie tinies for so long, AND ebf twins, AND deal with colic/reflux for months, AND not leave any of your kids to cry.

Jaggy you're working shifts and still the primary (sole? ) caregiver for your mini people at night. You are a superwoman, FACT. I'm not interested in any arguing over this definition, and certainly not watering it down to sleepywoman! I'll accept superhero if you prefer?

Hawthers I hope F's improved sleep is a sign that he's feeling much better, regardless of the rash. No brooking for it to vanish asap though!

Biscuits you are definitely always right! (Except when you're talking about yourself! You're usually much too hard on yourself!)

Apologies to anyone I've missed. I have no excuse now, on the back of actually getting a couple of three hour stretches of sleep last night!! (Who would have believed I would ever be so jubilant about that?!?!)

See, my mum has been telling me for months that Gma came round one night and made her put us both down, shut the door and ignore us until we went to sleep. Neither of us are one whit the worse for this treatment. We were a lot younger than M is now (think 5/6 months). Cc is a lot less barbaric than that. M spent a lot of time howling last night despite our best efforts, and she is shattered this morning, as am I, and DH. I need to do something! The trouble with consistency is that it is nearly Christmas and we are going to spend 24-27 Dec at my dad's, then the next couple of nights at my mum's. I don't want M to wake up nine zillion times when we're away, but I'm not sure starting sleep training 5 days before we go away for a week is going to work either. Then after Christmas I go back to work, which is another big change for her, and she goes to nursery.

2 mins to get her down for her 2pm nap

Great news scream

too there may always be something getting in the way and at least at your dad's or mum's you might grab a nap if its not gone well....

Woop woop scream!

Wowee scream and well done little A. Fab work!

She woke after 40 mins, and it took about 20 minutes for her to go back to sleep. She cried intermittantly during that 20 minutes :( but not for more than 7 mins in total I'd guess, and not all at once. I only went in once in that time - tbh I think when I go in it unsettles her more. I can't bear to just leave her to cry it out though.

At least she's sleeping now. When she next wakes I'll get her up again, and we'll be on track for a 7pm bedtime routine with the goal of asleep by 8! She had a later bedtime yesterday because it's been so difficult to get her to go to sleep before 10pm for the last few weeks, and I didn't want to make the first night even harder by forcing her straight into a 7pm bedtime.

Thanks for the support ladies (with special thanks to anyone who's actually read the reams and reams of self-obsessing posting I've been doing today!) Apologies for hijacking the thread with this!

I think you're right with the bedtime thing Scream - they do say if you're trying to get them to go to bed earlier to try and gradually move bedtime earlier. It sounds like you're definitely getting somewhere though.

If you come in from a walk and your baby is actually asleep in the pushchair, do you leave them to it or do you attempt to take their hat off? I was told when M was tiny never never never let her wear a hat in the house, she might overheat and die. I'm not really sure how long she's been asleep, because I didn't check the time before I left the house, but surely not longer than 20 or 30 minutes. I walked slowly and stopped lots to allow the dog to sniff things on purpose once she was asleep, but all the same. I don't want to wake her up if I don't have to. I think I'm going to leave her alone.

Scream, it sounds like you and little A are doing brilliantly. Stick to your guns - I understand that consistency is key with cc.

Hawthers, good point.

I can normally slide ds2's hat off while he's asleep but if I wanted him to stay asleep and I thought he looked like he might wake I'd probably leave it on

I normally undo the footmuff though and take any other blankets off but have to leave his coat on

Well, she's still asleep despite coughing every now and then, so I'm leaving her to it. This is a great nap!

Great work Scream and A. That really is brilliant. What will you do with all that spare time you're going to have?

Brooking that little F and M get better soon.

Both of mine still ill. DS's nose is running constantly with thick green slime and he is still very very chesty but the high temps have stopped and he is much better in himself. 3 days into Augmentin and no diarrhoea, result!
DD has a chesty cough and is very rattley. Is that a word? I took her to the docs this morning to be on the safe side purely because of DS's chest infection. At the moment it is just a chesty cough and a cold so I just need to keep a close eye on her and make sure she doesn't get worse.

I did take DS to the panto yesterday Biscuits. I didn't have the heart to cancel (although I would have if it was sickness and I've also kept him away from the playgroup party today). DH and I kept him sitting in between us and covered his mouth every time he coughed but looking and listening to all the other kids in the audience probably at least half of them sounded as bad as him! He loved it! The cast were flying around the stage and the hall on wires. I thought DS hadn't noticed the wires but when we got home he told my mum Peter Pan was flying on a rope

Panto sounds awesome scarlet. Did you take dd too or find someone to babysit her? And how long did it last? I'm wondering whether we should have taken ds1 . Was Hook 'scary'?

And was there any interesting slebs in it?