Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Post-natal clubs

Join our Postnatal Clubs forum to find parenting advice for newborns.

October 2012 babies part 2: winding, yawning and grizzling, and first smiles?

999 replies

YompingJo · 13/11/2012 05:20

Part 2: in which our babies learn to sleep through the night and make us tea in the morning

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Woolybob · 27/11/2012 15:42

Oh and happy birthday crazy, hope the rac turned up. I've been in all day waiting for dynarod (oh the glamour...) Am climbing the walls and I only have dd, can't imagine coping with two.

WantAnOrange · 27/11/2012 16:01

Mickey Letting her cry a bit won't do you any favours in the future at all! Follow your instincts and pick her up when she cries. I promise the whole "rod for own back" thing is a load of old bollocks! I don't want to bore people with child development theory but babies who are always responded to quickly feel more secure in their attachment and therefore cry less. Letting them cry doesn't teach them anything other than uncertainty, which means they cry more, to check that you're still there.

I think with wrt to bathing there is no right or wrong answer. Just do what you like. I bath DD when she's smells a bit ripe, and DS when you can see the layers of dirt Blush.

DD is currently screaming because DH offered her a bottle to give me a break and that is unacceptable. How dare we?!

hufflepuffle · 27/11/2012 16:38

Lol!!!! Clueless together, that's what I like!! I am def going to start bathing more often. DH may disagree cos he carries bath in and does most of baby holding and we are too old with dodgy knees and back but he does love it and evenings are def hardest part of day!

We should listen to you and just follow instincts and stay away from bloody baby centre!!! Just made mistake of looking up 'how long should my baby sleep for' and ended up reading about night time routines and learning to sleep. Being totally PC they give a list of every feckin experts opinion and mostly all say not to rock or feed baby to sleep and to let him get to sleep himself. Well I am sorry but I hav a 6 wk old baby who nurses to sleep between 11.30 and 1.00 and sleeps right thru (no wakey wakey) til nearly 7. I think that is bloody brilliant and keeping me sane and the thought if leaving him to cry right now is preposterous!!!

What I do need to do however is stop going out in car every single day in middle of day, getting totally distracted and waylaid and end up letting him hav a sleep a thon!! Cos I dunno what his real day pattern is!!

Never mind the absolute tip the house has become........

Considered cracking open the Baby whisperer again but I suspect it will only wind me up

Go with the flow it is!!

hufflepuffle · 27/11/2012 16:44

Sorry that should hav said We should listen to you Wantan

What we all need is peer support and experience!! Saw another BF helper yesterday (not even going there, you hav all heard enough from me and my feckin boobs) and she said that the crux of the whole BF prob is that we are now in 4th generation bottle feeders and there is essentially no one to learn from. We do not see others doing it in families, public or in TV and what should be natural is just so alien to us. Animals learn by watching each other, we hav to learn on the job. Oh and Northern Ireland has lowest BF rates in the WORLD.

WantAnOrange · 27/11/2012 16:52

huffle you are so right about BF. We now have no idea what's normal behaviour for BF babies and you get ideas like "he was feeding all time so he wasnt getting enough" at 3 days old. Thats what they're supposed to do at 3 days old! There is also this horrible idea that formula is somehow higher in calories and nutrition, but it's made to match breast milk so it contains the same! They go longer between feeds because it's harder to digest, not because it's got more in it! Bloody advertising!

ahem...rant over....

Orenishii · 27/11/2012 17:06

Completely, completely, completely agree Wantanorange and huffle! DH and I agreed from the beginning that we believed creating trust with your baby and the knowledge that you'll be there for them creates happy, confident children. It completely makes sense, and whatever the label we'd always planned on co-sleeping, being led by them, holding them a lot and (trying to) meet their needs straight away in the early days.

We have no plans to impose regimes...I've started introducing sleep cues for when we come to think about a bedtime routine but right now, of an evening, I bathe him, massage, feed, change and cuddle him until he drops off - then I either dash into the kitchen to cook, or continue to cuddle him while exposing him to I'm A Celebrity via osmosis Wink At some point, months from now, we'll start putting him to bed much earlier in the evening in the bedside cot or in our bed, but we'll still be going up to tend to his needs until he drifts off again.

And yes yes about the breastfeeding - it makes total sense about not having that tribal or community element to have witnessed breastfeeding and to then instinctively know what to do. I had terrible problems in the beginning - open sores from the first night DS was born! The midwives left me to it in the recovery room after a very traumatic labour and birth and I mistook "natural" for easy. It is natural; it's not easy, not always. I had no idea what I was doing and god, the days I spent sobbing on the couch while DH repeatedly kept trying to re-latch DS were so awful...the horrified guilt when the community MW declared "things would be triggered" if I couldn't get it right and start putting weight on him...god, it was horrible. But now, two trips to the BF clinic and it's like I have been doing it for years!

So I dunno...I guess I completely agree in principle about trusting my instincts, that cuddling/feeding/sleeping/cuddling/walking/feeding really is all he needs but that parental worry will certainly get you, won't it! In his very short life he has been very relaxed with our approach, and then suddenly became very angry and grizzly with it all - staying awake all evening where previously he'd slept in my arms for 3 hours. I did start to doubt our ultra relaxed, baby led approach was having a negative effect on him but it's still such early days, who can say! He mostly sleeps whenever he likes, has his last feed at midnight, then awake at 2.30/3.30, and again at 7.30 - which I guess isn't so bad - it's just been the last few nights he's been grizzly and we haven't slept until 1/1.30.

WantAnOrange · 27/11/2012 17:11

orenishii He could be cluster feeding, feeding lots to up your supply because his needs have increased. Or he might just be grumpy! Sometimes DD goes a day or two just being generally horrible then goes back to her normal self.

Agree natural does not equal easy!

bella2012 · 27/11/2012 17:12

crazy what a shit birthday! I so feel your pain with getting absolutely no time to yourself, not even enough to go to the loo. Sometimes I just have to put my head in my hands and breathe for a minute I get so wound up with it all. I find leaving the house v. Stressful, getting both of them into the car with all the bags of stuff we need takes forever so we are never anywhere on time. Not sure why I am telling you all of that apart from to let you know that you are not alone! Please tell me that there is something nice on the cards for tonight? I know a night on the tiles is probs not likely but a takeaway? Some cake? A glass of vino?? This birthday can't be 'the one where I had two babies on my lap whilst pooing' xx

Beeblebear · 27/11/2012 17:24

Eek. Not to scare any of you ff out there, but did you know that powdered formula is not sterile? Only premade or mixed Liquid formulas can be sterelized. My mil (lc) just scares the bejezuz out of me with stories of babies dying and told me to throw out all my powdered stuff.

Now this may be a stupid question, bit if you are adding boiling water to it, wouldnt that MAKE it sterile then?

Woolybob · 27/11/2012 17:58

beeble yes boiling water will kill any harmful bacteria see
www.nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/Pages/making-up-infant-formula.aspx

MickeyTheShortOne · 27/11/2012 20:17

Londonmrss I dreamt I was giving DP a blow job last night and everyone caught me out. I blame you Grin DP is very keen to make this dream come true!! (Obviously not the catching out bit, ha ha!)

smileyhappymummy · 27/11/2012 20:29

Aargh. Baby smiley doing ok and if stays well might be able to go home tomorrow evening (yay! ) but dd1 has started vomiting - probably norovirus I guess. Feel horrible not being there for my poorly big girl and worried about her and worried that baby will get it too. This is no fun!

Smorgs · 27/11/2012 20:57

Oh smiley congrats on baby smiley getting better but boo that dd is ill now. Livvy sending you lots of hugs (btw who says hugs aren't allowed on mn?) One thing I've found helps is to look for one positive thing from each day. Yesterday I got Smorglet to have a morning nap for the first time for example. If you write them down when you're feeling overwhelmed it might help to read through them all... Then again it's just another thing to do when you're already busy?! crazy happy birthday! Hope you have been spoilt, or at least pood in peace! bella you always say the nicest things and give such good advice. orenishii welcome back! I feel totally clueless most of the time esp when everyone here is so knowledgeable. Not doing a lot more with ds than you are, I think it's ok though.
londonmrss you are an evil genius, brilliant!

Ok sorry to those I've missed but am trying to focus on getting this magazine piece written before Thursday deadline in between the feeding/screaming, but have a couple of Qs. I expressed this morning for first time in a couple of weeks and it was just as hurty but suddenly I noticed I was drawing blood! Think I have a crack on that side - what do I do now avoid feeding on that side? Carry on through the pain? Can I keep the milk I expressed (can't see any blood in it).
Then on the other side I have developed two small lumps just under the skin, one on edge of areola the other on normal skin on boob. They are quite itchy so wondered if they are bites, or could they be blocked ducts?

Btw whoever recommended kellymom.com (angelico?) thank you! Has great advice inc putting ice cube on cracked nipple before feeding to numb the pain.

Angelico · 27/11/2012 20:59

Oh poor Smiley sending a hug to you and the Smilettes :( Look after yourself as best you can too Thanks And Crazy hope you got rescued sooner rather than later x

Hello to everyone else, yet another quick wave and run, gah! The evening feeding frenzy will shortly commence but at least I dozed conked out like the dead for an hour there - literally couldn't keep eyes open so DH took the bean for an hour.

Angelico · 27/11/2012 21:02

Smorgs x-posted and ouch on the bleeding nipple :( I did recommend Kellymom and it helped me a lot but think it might have been Wantan recommended it to me in the first place so a thousand thank yous to whoever it was! I found the tips on it really helpful. Itchy lumps I'm not sure about as my lumps were massive and fucking agony rather than itchy when ducts were blocked. Hang in there! x

Beeblebear · 27/11/2012 21:50

Tjanks for the link wooly. Not sue if i could trust dh to take the time to do that properly. Sigh.

My happy for the dau... Ds is having his afternoon nap IN HIS CRIB IN THE NURSERY. This is the first step in transitioning him to his room at night. Little guy has grown 3 inches in a month and wont be in his bassinett too much longer...

Of course as i type this the dog just went in and woke him up. Frack

lisbethsopposite · 27/11/2012 22:09

Smorgs are they blebs - i think that is calcium deposit.
Also believe blood doesnt affect/bother babies at all.
Orenishii I think you have a great plan - i am attempting something similar.

I let Paul cry when i have something i have to do, including having a mini break Brew.But never just as an exercise. He is asleep on my lap now, not having a smoke. It cannot be bad for him.

I saw a programme on Henry 8. As an infant he had wet nurse and 2 rockers on the payroll! Fuck it girls we are great!!

Had some retail therapy today. Paul was v cooperative (asleep). Feel better, thanks all. Hate being a mope.

bella2012 · 27/11/2012 23:26

thank you so much smorgs, livvy and squid for saying nice things. I always feel like an idiot after posting one of my parenting big-ups (especially with my hideous typos!) Not feeling very positive tonight i am afraid. Isn't it weird how the world can change so much from day to day? Some days I am so happy and loving it all and others I just feel so down. Will has not let me put him down since we got in at 5pm. In the last 6 hours we have fed almost continuously. He has cried every minute that i haven't been feeding him apart from the 15 minutes when i sat him next to the hoover so that i could make ds1's dinner. dH was meant to be working super late but managed to get in at 8 so i copped out and let ds1 stay up until he got in. I couldn't even get his pj's on as couldn't put will down for long enough. I know I have to just let him cry sometimes as for the next two nights dh won't get in until 11 so there will be noone to help me, but his crying hurts me so much, i can not bear it. Poor little ds1 is being such an angel, i just feel so guilty that he has to wait for everything. Plus i keep getting impatient with him because i need him to do things like put his coat on the instant i ask because i know the baby will be cryin again any minute so we only have a tiny window. Sigh. What is really getting me down though is that somehow I have fallen out with my lovely Mum who somehow got the impression that I was inferring tonight had been so bad because she wasn't here to help. Once she has made an assumption like that she will not change her mind. I really really didn't mean to infer that, i was just having a rant. She has helped me massively so I am gutted to have fallen out, even though i know it will be ok tomorrow.

Sorry to be such a moaner. My day is nothing like as bad as yours smiley. I am so sorry they are both poorly! What a horrid time for you. Get well soon smilettes! Xx

love to you all and good luck with nightshift everyone! X

hufflepuffle · 27/11/2012 23:34

Snorgs gah! Feckin cracks!! Something not right avec your pumping- aperture too small or suction too strong or fast? My cracks caused by baby with poor latch and was then easier to express. May be wrong of me to assume this but worth looking at. Or maybe u just did too much too soon??

Be careful of cracks. Can end up with bloody thrush or mastitis. Need to moist heal them. Do you hav lansinoh?? Am sure it exists in France. Hand express small amount milk often and rub it over and let dry. Then need lansinoh or similar.

Feed or express, whichever more comfy , don't end up a mess like me!!

Baby will happily feed on bleeding boob but no idea on storage.

I get wee bumps like that too, they disappear with feeding

Must go, tonne weight asleep on my shoulder. I better get stronger soon!! Xx

Smorgs · 28/11/2012 01:02

Thanks for the advice ladies, yes have lansinoh will do what hou suggest huffle. just so scared of getting thrush or mastitis. F-ing pump grr.
Paediatrician thinks he has reflux too but not worth giving him anything for it?! He's 3.95kg now - a whole kg in a month, porker Grin

Smorgs · 28/11/2012 01:06

Ps Bella sounds like you've had a shocker, hope you can sort things out with your mum and baby lets you put him down for a bit tomorrow. Smorglet was like that last week but has been loAds better this week and has happily sat on bouncy chair while I shower. Long may it continue Hmm

Beccus · 28/11/2012 01:45

Oh, smiley, cant believe dd is now sick :-( bella, agree life is either great or shit, it generally depends on how tired i am. i am therefore obsessed with sleeping. i am actually clocking up a fair few hrs of sleep, but as they r never more than 3hrs at a time, i still get v. tired if i have to stay up for more than a few hrs at a time.smorgs, a little blood in breast milk is fine for baby, i do agree with huffle - could be worth getting them checked to see what the prob is. local breast feeding team threatened with closure due to funding cuts - so awful, my mate and i have found them so helpful, so was pleased they called and asked me to write an email about the input they gave me - hope it helps. re bedtime routine, we dont really have one. we bathe most nites, but not every, and until today we had taken bean out if her romper suit and put her to bed at nite in just her vest, but aftet reading squid's and livvy's posts, am keeping her suit on now to ensure she is not cold...and to keep her asleep :-) cant be arsed/see the point in changing her from one suit to another that is basically the same for the sake of a bed time routine...i do dim lights and minimise talking at night ( which is when it is dark outside) and there is no playtime at nite, just feed and cuddles, or walking her in sling to get her off. oh, and i always feed/hold/pram/sling her to sleep...no self settling going on in this household....i will look more into it at 6 weeks when this feed/express every 2-3 hrs torture to build up supply is over and i am (hopefully) getting longer asleep. crazy, happy bitthday,hope your day gets better. lisbeth, re poohing in labor - i was really worried about accidents in 1st stage as i did not want to leave gas and air to go to toilet...i was, however, completely psyched up to poo when pushing and warned dp there would be poo for sure....i just knew that pushing basically involved trying to push out a massive poo....i just figured if that's what i needed to do to get the baby out, poohing would be unavoidable...give yourself permission and forgiveness for your poo- it happened because u were working hard with your body, which wss doing all the right things, to get little paul out

OctoberOctober · 28/11/2012 03:11

smiley glad bean is getting better, sorry to hear dd not well. Bean may not catch though - Ds1 here has had tummy bug for 12 days here but luckily ds2 didn't catch. I was super fastidious about hygiene between them and now have old woman hands from continual washing.

bella diesn't sound like you to be so down sweetie. Can you clear the air with your mum tomorrow? I know just how hard it is dividing your time between 2, although i feel like it is ds2 getting short changed as ds1 shouts louder and gets more attention.

orenishi I feel pretty clueless too and worry that I'm not doing enough stimulating stuff with bean. All the 'nice' things that we did with ds1 like baby massage have gone out the window as not enough time with 2.

Also, thought I'd just explain why seem so clueless with ds2 despite having ds1.. My female partner gave birth to ds1 and took maternity leave with him so was primary caregiver, plus she bf so all a bit different this time round with ds2: me giving birth, taking mat leave and ff. So although this is my second time as a parent, it is first time on the sharp end with doing majority of feeding and esp nighttime stuff. Interesting to have diff perspective on it even if I do get short straw coping with 2 this time round. Grin

hufflepuffle · 28/11/2012 04:56

Oops. Bath time routine has backfired a bit. Nev er before hav we been up at 4.30...... Need to reassess timing methinks. !!

Bella lovely pet I hope U r ok and night better than day, one extreme to the other all this, bloody exhausting. Hugs to u.

Beccus we too don't do jammies. Change him that many times in day anyhow, not wasting a babygro!!

October how did I totally miss that your DP is a she???? Passed me by, that!! Flip, it is a shock to your system with DC2 then!! You are doing brilliantly, how do u ever get a minute??

Right, he's asleep, back to bed. Please please don't be morning awake yet!!!

hufflepuffle · 28/11/2012 05:12

Grrr. We had not had heater on in room. No wonder his hands were cold. And woke at silly time. Gah. Now cannot be sure if bath was too early. Back to drawing board!