October 2012 babies - we meet them at last!

[YompingJo]

Getting thread in place in readiness!

oh God yes please Elpis- that sounds amazing! That is really hard for you on the childcare front. I would find that really really hard to bear. Does he not realise how much he is missing out on by not being a hands on Dad? If he is away a lot an hour or so on his own with the baby while you go swimming would surely be a wonderful thing? I hope you are OK.

livvy I am so sorry to hear you so down. It may be a good idea to talk to your HV about how you are feeling? It may well just be caused my tiredness and sadness that your sister is moving, but it could be some form of PN depression and if it continues, then you could benefit from some help maybe? Echoing what the others have said, I would make getting some sleep your priority. Whenever she sleeps in the day, try and either rest or get a nap. It will make the long night infinitely more bearable. And please don't worry that you don't enjoy parentimg more. The job of parenting changes so so frequently. Look at yompings story-already her bean has a whole new set of demands. I really do subscribe to the philosophy that good or bad, everything is a phase. It won't be lomg until we are where angelico and squid are, when things are starting to pick up and feel more manageable. And believe me, parenting a toddler is a whole different ball game, with all new joys and challenges. And a parent came up to me at a school event I had attended during my last maternity leave and indicated my beautiful sleeping baby. I thought, like the other parents I had met, she had come over to congratulate me, but instead she said 'God babies are dull aren't they? I hated that bit-it is great fun now though! I wish they could have been teenagers from the start!' she had four kids! So don't despair my lovely and don't hate me for repeating the mantra 'IT WILL GET BETTER!' xxxx

Not got long, got to get up in a minute

Just wanted to make cups of tea for livvy and londonmrss and smorgs and hufflepuffle ... it is so tough!! But it won't be like this forever, it will get easier. Everyone says so. I have had a relaxed settled few days, and baby squid is almost sleeping through the night, and no longer in my bed. Don't know if it will last, but at 4 weeks old she was a complete velcro baby never left my side, now at nearly 6 weeks she is happily being put down for 2, 3, 5 hours at a time. There are longer stretches between night time feeds, and breastfeeding has become very easy (I read, I sit up and eat, I type, I go to cafes whilst doing it - like elpis I am not bothered about public places). I didn't really think it was possible.

I keep meeting people who say "she's nearly 6 weeks? Ah, you're nearly out of hell then" - it feels endless at this stage but I think soon we will be able to enjoy our babies a lot more - I am certainly beginning to. And I felt super-guilty for resenting her early on - really wished I hadn't had a baby at one point (3 weeks I think). So pom-poms and cheers guys, you're doing brilliantly, and it won't last forever.

zara good! Glad you have a solution that works for you and baby and hopefully everything will seem easier from here on. I second what smileymummy says about breastfeeding being good in a population sense, but not necessarily for every individual - good way of thinking about it. I hope you feel better, and get some rest.

hufflepuffle - why DON'T you stay in bed, do you have to get up today? I did that once or twice - I got up for a quick shower so I didn't feel rank, remade bed, got tea and toast and just went back to bed with her to feed and sleep all day. - this works even better if someone else can make you tea and toast (apologies to those with toddler for whom this is not a possible solution!)

livvy and londonmrss - fantastically well done on the weights - particularly londonmrss with all the hard work you have put in you are an absolute hero mum

smorgs - slings - I have a moby (a stretchy one you tie) - everyone told me this was best for newborn but I found it a faff - lots of material and a bit intimidating (grandparents didn't want to try it to take her out). Then I tried a soft carrier one called a beco (there is a popular one called an ergo which I think is similar) which looks more like a baby bjorn and has buckles so easy to snap on and off, but I think is more soft and supportive and better for a newborn. I love it. It is v pricey (£100) but I got one on ebay for £40. I use it, boyfriend uses it, my parents use it. She seems a bit small for a pushchair still, when it's so cold out. I also use it around the house to cook etc, and to soothe her (sling + gym ball - exhausting but effective!)

Right I really do have to get up! Much love guys - you may not feel like it, but you are doing so well. xx

bella -crossposted- a lovely comment, thanks for that

(TBH before I got pregnant I always found babies dull and irritating, though I loved playing with children once they could talk and run about and do stuff.)

Just catching up - big hugs to all who had bad nights and shitty comments from those who should know better (I include husbands in this!).

Elpis can we go away over Christmas? Would love to escape that this year and sit on a beach with DD instead!

For what it's worth just wanted to agree things improve! DD was 5 weeks yesterday, still no real smile but def makes more eye contact these days. And night sleeping is better than day sleeping. Last night was a 'bad' night but she still slept 11 till nearly 4 before waking every hour or so the rest of the night. Life is so much easier when you get at least one decent stretch plus I can be reasonably confident that tonight will be better.

Breastfeeding also much easier although I am also commonly feeding for an hour and hardly ever manage 3 hours between day feeds but am hopeful this will also settle with time?

Smorgs we have a Kari-me too, DD wouldn't go in the cross body position (I think she was too long) and it took me a while to figure out how to support her head when she's facing me but we've cracked it now and she'll normally go in it and fall asleep if I walk round the house with it on. Don't know if your significant other is like mine but DH refuses to use it so we've also got a mamas and papas own brand more structured one (thou he's not yet used that one either!)

londonlivvy I just realised that my mood has lifted since I started taking the iron tablets again. Not sure if it's a coincidence, and I'm only taking them every other day to avoid constipation the side-effects, but it's just a thought? Mine also have folic acid in them.

elpis that is a bit unfair of your DH, but I know mine can say things (and I often say things) I don't mean when I'm sleep deprived and have a loud persistent noise in my ear. I agree on the torture techniques too - loud noises, sleep deprivation, holding uncomfortable positions for hours and being covered in unpleasant liquids - the shadier elements of our armed forces must all be parents right?!

Thanks for all your sympathy for last night - I actually didn't think it was too bad considering he's only 2 weeks and I got two three hour stretches of sleep. I feel a bit more positive today, although he has just had a morning screamathon and pooed and weed on me when I changed his nappy

Livvy darling, you need to sleep- it makes everything more manageable. I~s there someone who can look after bubs for a couple of hours?

A really good article on the pressures of having a newborn in the guardian here

Livvy, just wanted to tell you what various midwives and a HV have told me... just because she sleeps all night does NOT mean she won't sleep all day - babies are not that logical. Mine seems to follow a pattern of around 72 hours of being a total b*gger, demanding feeding far more often than is surely necessary and refusing to be settled easily to sleep, then a few days and nights of sleeping nearly constantly despite whatever is going on around her. I too thought if she slept all day it would mean a night from hell but it doesn't seem to work like that. There are no patterns, there is no logic, there is just a little person trying to work out how to be a human and what her body wants. In moments of clarity and wakefullness, I feel a lot of sympathy for my little person, it must be really confusing and big. I feel a massive amount of sympathy for you too, you sound like you are really going through it. . I know what you mean about thinking you'd find it more rewarding. It makes me laugh when people say "have you bonded with her?" - what's to bond with at the moment? She is a little ball of demands, without any real personality yet. I can't even know her, let alone bond with her, and she can't know me yet because she is not aware of me as a separate entity to her. She is not aware of much except light, sounds and sensations. These first few weeks are like starting a new 24-hour job, wondering if you are going to end up liking it, doing most things wrong and not getting any feedback from your new boss, and your paycheck has not yet come in. It's relentless, all give and no getting back in return. I do love her, because she is my child, but I don't much like her sometimes! I at least have the benefit of hormones driving me to care for her despite the sleeplessness and screaming. I think DH just wonders what on earth we have done, sometimes! You're not alone, petal, and I'm just hanging on the the mantra that it does get easier and a bad day or night is not a sign of more bad days or nights to come.

On the anger front, thank you, it really reassures me to know that it's not just me. My dad has a very short temper and did lose control a few times when me and my brother were younger and it has always been my biggest fear about having children - that I have that in me too, that ability to snap and lose control and just not be able to stop myself from hitting out. Chatted to a friend about it yesterday, she has a 6 month old and said she felt exactly the same during the first few weeks. It's like a big taboo thing that no-one talks about but lots of people experience and worry about. Good to know I'm not alone

Elpis, can I join you on the beach? Pre baby that sort of holiday was my idea of hell. Now,m on the other hand... I blame hypnobollocks with its "you are on a peaceful beach..."

And... I GOT A SMILE!!! Never mind that she is only 3 weeks old tomorrow, it was in response to me smiling at her and it was too big and full and, well, smiley to be wind... wasn't it?

Yesterday I made decision to give up on breast feeding and move to formula as a result of it being so painful and the nipple thrush. I was literally in tears at every feed and dreading the next one.

DS has no problems gulping down the formula or with the bottles but doesn't settle afterwards in the same way as he did with bf. Prob as he was using boobs as a comforter

I might try a dummy to soothe him but feel like I'm giving up on all of my principles with ditching bf as well
I'm worried he isn't liking formula as much, that it isn't as good for his digestion.

I'm expressing to aid the transition from bf but haven't been giving him the expressed milk as I didn't want him to reject the formula in favour of ebf plus I am just sick of anything to do with bf.

I really don't want to go back to bf but I'm worried that I'm not doing the best for my boy.

I didn't like bf much anyway but the thrush was the last straw, v painful and worried I would pass to him. Plus feels likely I would get again as prone to it.

Trying to be rational, but I feel like I've let him down by stopping bf.
I know everyone says it gets easier but I was just finding it so painful, prob due to the thrush.

Sorry this is so self indulgent, sitting on sofa in pjs feeling like a shit mum, why can't I give my boy what he needs?

october sending you the biggest biggest hugs. I am exactly where you are right now. WE ARE GOOD MUMS. We are doing what's right for our babies by not carrying on with something that is wrecking our heads and making it impossible to do all the other things that go along with having a baby. I posted a thread over in breast/bottle feeding about making the transition easily to ff, perhaps the responses will be useful to you too.

We and our babies will get through this [hugs] and in a few weeks we will wonder what all the fuss was about.

October and Zara I've been there with DS1 and you are both great mums, making the right choice for your personal circumstances. Formula milk is a fantastic alternative to Breast milk, it's not poison. It's got a bad rep but no-one ever mentions all the good things that have come as a result of formula milk being thought up in the first place and readily availble, before the stuff was invented babies would've been put straight onto cows milk if the mother couldn't BF. In third world countries babies are given flour and (dirty) water mixed to a paste if their mothers can't BF.

Breast milk is ideal but formula milk is a very good subsitute.

Afternoon all,

My day has flow by. Back to back come dine with me and a snooze on the sofa. The come dine with me must stop! Such an unproductive use of time.

Just wanted to say to anyone who is worried about loosing control with their baby. EVERY parent will feel like that at some stage. May be not now but as the challenges change there is not one parent who won't feel pushed to the edge. This is normal. To not feel like this at some stage is not normal. My mum was a midwife and a pretty good mother and she wisely says that if you feel close to loosing it you put the baby somewhere safe and you close the door and you take as long as you need to calm down. The baby will be fine. I didn't feel like loosing it with DD when she was tiny but boy has she pushed my buttons since. I have taken this advice and still not even smacked DD bloody miracle as she is a cheeky little monkey. Don't feel bad about negative thoughts, it is negative actions you want to watch.

Orange Quite wise to focus on the best way of feeding for you. There is so much more to parenting than the food you put in them. It will not seen important when you look back and having had thrush with DC1 I know it is fecking agony. I think it all becomes so much easier once you make your decision.

I am with Elpisin that I would BF anywhere. You can be so discrete and I have never had anyone be negative about it. If in doubt, whip them out.

Right master midge is sleeping soundly so I should tidy the house and walk the dog whilst I can. He has slept nearly all day. He has a cold and I am amazed at the size of his bogies. Such a small nose how do they get up there? Baby's are miraculous.

Can't remember who said at 3 weeks it can't be a smile but I would say yes it can - master midge had given us some very definite ones really early on. He is a happy fella although I tested his patience this morning by stretching a feed more than 3 hours. He was furious - he takes after his parents. Pretty chilled until
Someone messes with our food then the shit hits the fan.

Sorry I meant october not orange this is what happens when I post from my phone...

Just ventured out with the pram for the first time and I'm having a freak out. We went over s bumpy curb much harder than I meant to with a definite thunk. Could I have hurt LO head/brain? Sorry first time mum paranoia getting the better of me!

honey - highly unlikely. Babies are very durable.

DH has just got home from work all depressed and said that he feels down and is struggling to adjust. I feel like a prize b*tch but I'm really finding it hard to be sympathetic... He's getting full nights of sleep as it is pointless us both being awake. He can still go out easily. He is not tied to a small person who needs to latch onto his body frequently during the day.

I know, I know, it's a big change for him too. But I'm still struggling to lend a sympathetic ear. Must not get competitive about whose life is shitter right now. Not constructive at all. Must be a bigger person than this.

wanders off trying not to seethe... 3 2 1 relax!

wantan - kiddiecare.co.ukcurrently has 'jubilee special edition' lightweight travel system, ok for newborns, for £50 reduced from £150 with free UK mainland delivery. I just bought one as need airline approved size for trip home to australia - can report back on quality if you like?

'Don't feel bad about negative thoughts, it is negative actions you want to watch.'

midget that is just about the best advice I have ever heard.

honey - I've been a campaigner/fundraiser for acquired brain injury for seven years.

There is zero chance that you have injured honeybaby in any way.

Thank you for the reassurance. I'm just totally terrified of something happening to him/me doing something wrong.

Hi everyone

Thanks for the votes of support. It's been a v tough couple of days. I know that sleep would help, but trying to get it ain't the easiest. I tried to sleep at lunchtime when DD slept but just lay in bed fretting about how I'm going to cope. Not constructive .

My sis came to visit and say goodbye this afternoon and I basically sobbed on her for about 2 hours. She's of the view that we should get a maternity nurse a few nights a week for the next couple of weeks, just to get us through this tough period as we have no family who can help. I feel that that makes me a failure, that I just couldn't hack motherhood.

We also had a moment when i had put DD down a bit too late for her nap and she was really struggling to settle. Sis said just leave her to cry, she'll settle herself. Baby whisperer also says this. I couldn't do it. Where do you guys stand on this and how long do you leave them to cry for before going in to reassure etc? I don't want DD to feel unloved or abandoned, but equally don't want to be rocking her to sleep til she's four. I realise I'm probably over thinking this. Tiredness will do that to a girl.

Debating going to bed at about 8pm tonight to see if I can get some more sleep in. DF has volunteered to give her a bottle of formula at ten so I can sleep til, say, two (when she would normally wake up) but I fear engorgement and also feel like this is my job and I should do it. He is shattered and has a huge amount of tough studying to do. So he needs the sleep too.

Sorry to be so self centred. I am reading everyone else and sympathising .

livvy you are not a failure, this is bloody hard work. We are barely holding it together and we have DMIL staying with us!!! When I came home from the hospital I was googling maternity nurses....

There is no doubt it's relentless.... Massive highs (DS staring into my eyes ) but also giant lows (errr everything I've posted in the past week about the feeding issues)!

Also I can't bear to let DS cry - when we were preparing his last feed (one of the new formula ones we're introducing) I couldn't bear to hear him cry for the 1 minute longer it was going to take for the water to cool - I ripped open one of the pre made Aptamil cartons instead

DH suggested I could leave the room when DS was crying if it upset me... Cue me hissing at him to NEVER again suggest I leave my hungry child crying .....

livvy your sis has kids right? And she loves you and knows you, so take her advice. If you can afford it-get some help! All of us lucky enoug to have parents nearby accept help. You are not so fortunate, so don't feel remotely bad for getting help elsewhere. I bet you will look back on this time once the hormone haze has lifted and wonder why you have put yourself throug the ringer so much. Clearly you are a devoted and brilliant Mum. Having some help does not undermine that at all. Some proper sleep will help you so much, and of there is a way to get that, then I say do it.

yomping I am with you on this and would struggle to be sympathetic too. Yes, his life has changed but not to the extent yours has. You need him to be there for you right now, to cheerlead and tell you what a great job you are doing. From everything else you have written about him, he sounds like a brilliant hubs so I think you are doing the right thing by keeping your temper! I am constantly reminded of that quote about how being married is like having your arms in the air holding the ceiling up to stop it falling down on you. And just when you think you are too tired and you can't keep them up anymore, you realise that he is there to take over for a while, until it is your turn again. Not sure if that translates really-but that is what our house feels like at the minute-each time one of us is at the end of our tether, one of us has to find a bit more tether! Well done to you for managing to do that tonight, you are brilliant.

My boy keeps writhing around and biting my nipple-ouch! Don't know what I am doing wrong! And I have a toddler upstairs screaming for me. Feel like running away for a while. Sigh. Sesrching for a bit more tether...

livvy I just cried down the phone at my mum and she came round for an hour to keep me sane. If you haven't got family nearby to help then a maternity nurse sounds like a great idea. Anything that helps keep you sane makes you a sensible parent, not a failure!

bella yes, she has two kids. When she had her first, conveniently her hubby was on gardening leave for several weeks. And I used to come round a fair bit after work once hubby had gone back. Ouch re writhing baby. DD does that to me sometimes.

Thanks for the encouragement, bella, zara and honey that taking on paid help wouldn't be failure. I still really want to try to sort it out myself. Just need sleep!

I'm not sure how we go about finding a maternity nurse. Obviously there is google but a recommendation would be preferable. DF suggested asking our NCT course leader. I couldn't face calling her today as would just have cried I think.

Right. Off to bed with me.