Post-grad Brookers, over here! We will Brook No Argument that all Mini-Brookers sleep 12 hours a night and behave angelically during the day

[TooImmatureTurtleDoves]

Over here!

Biscuits

Didn't Hawthers find that DS2's sleep improved after 6 months, Too ?

Hmm. Is it very wrong that I am now considering asking the dog to lick clean DS's dirty bottom instead of using wet wipes?

Only joking. Honest.

Too please remind me, is M napping well in her cot during the day? I found it easier to work on the daytime naps and found that the night improved at the same time.

I wonder if M hasn't lost her gag reflex yet. Anything lumpy seems to get spat out. Or it could just be that she's learned to spit and likes doing it.

at Biscuits and the pressure wager. The dog was a great help in cleaning up the avocado, and I just stripped M and wiped her down with baby wipes before putting her night-time babygrow on.

Thanks, guys. Pomme, it is totally crap and I didn't sympathise enough when M was sleeping well (which seems like months ago). I was feeling really miserable and weepy on Monday, so much so that I wondered about PND (is 6 months too late for that?), and then I felt a bit the same way today and realised that I felt really hopeless and useless not because I'm depressed, but because I'm not getting enough sleep, and it shows particularly when I'm not doing anything out of the house to take my mind off it. Pet, I think Hawthers did go through a similar phase with F - I just can't remember when he stopped it! I don't know how Dream keeps going - I at least had a good phase with M for a couple of months. She's had first B and now S sleeping dreadfully, so she hasn't had a break since they were born.

Yes, Pet, I started putting M in her cot for 2 daytime naps about 10 days ago and she took to it really well. She usually sleeps for a bit (anything from 30 mins to an hour), wakes up for a feed and then goes back down for a bit longer. She sleeps for 1-2 hours late morning and for 45 mins-1 hour at about 3/4ish. Then she goes to bed at 7ish. She mostly goes down easily enough - feeds to sleep in about 10 mins. It's just that she doesn't stay down.

Hello hello am reading and lurking but finally getting a bit more sleep so no 3am postings from me to catch up.

too F's sleeping git a bit better at 6 months poss to do with weaning but who knows then at 6 and a half months it got bad again when on hols and for a bit when we got back then he was teething with a vengeance and since his first two teeth popped through 3 weeks ago its all been much better. So in summary I've no idea.

But I have given up bf. Been winding down gradually over the last two months then went away for a night last weekend and fed f twice since then and now he is fully ff. In the end he was just snacking and being really frustrating to get to focus on the task so I was getting a little fed up.

Sorry been so rubbish that I can't remember who is having what issues so love to all and off to dive d h a bat around the head for being a pillock.

R is having a morning nap in the cot, also about 30 mins, maybe an hour max. afternoons a bit more unpredictable. i do plonk him in there if he falls asleep feeding, sometimes he wakes up almost straight away though.

i don't bother trying to put him in the cot before about 9 though as he still has a big feed between 9 and 10 sometime.

we had another go with a bottle today, he really can't get the hang of it though. I'm going to persevere and try and offer it more often before panic buying different bottles or trying cups.

It's such a shame he looks so confused with his wee tongue waving about. he can't seem to work out how to get the milk out. i even tried a size 2 teat, but no joy. got about 2 months uy figure something out.

I'm a bit fuzzy headed myself today, was a bit of an up and down night last night. think i might try to head for an early one tonight.

Jaggy I'm sure you'll have cracked it in 2 months' time. Hope you have a good sleep tonight.

Too :( I don't have any bright ideas to help. FX M will remember how to sleep at night again soon. Big hugs to you.

Hawthers was it difficult to give up bfing? Hope DH has learned his lesson now if not, give him another wallop .

Waves at too

I'm miserably tired. Tired, tired, tired, tired, tired.

How, how, how do I teach S to self settle without howling/ cc involved?? I feed him, he's either asleep or very much awake. He doesn't do 'drowsy'. If he's put down awake sometimes he'll lie there for up to 10 min. He never goes to sleep. The room is dark ish- getting darker as days get shorter, obviously, white noise is on (mainly for B), he's had his bath etc so knows its nighttime. he has a soft comforter thing he likes to hold and suck. Very occasionally, later in the night, I can get him back to sleep by holding in a dummy and back patting with him on his side but he never sleeps for long after settling like this. Last night he never slept longer than an hour. An hour!

I still think he's too little for cc and it'd break me first, but wits end springs to mind.

How does everyonr else teach their babies to self settle? If there is 10 minutes of crying involved I would think that was fine except it wakes B up. Is adoption the only answer?!

Waves at purple too, I LOVE my juju be prepared now, it is definitely a smokers bag though but you get what you pay for (was £52 posted). I'm also dairy free for B and I hate it!!!

I have no words of advice for getting people to sleep. My own method was to pick a husband with 2 settings - awake or unconscious. This seems to have translated into children that sleep (not that I'll be tempting fate with any more children) so I really can't advise. I just wish I could help

He has to get the hang of it eventually? When you say he'll lie in his cot for 10 mins is that happy awake or noisy awake? Not that I know an answer depending on which one it is. I so wanted the co to be a magic fix.

Oh, on the point about waking B up, could you have S back in your room until he gets the hang of it? (He WILL, he WILL, I'll brook no argument about it). Or B back in your room?

Or S at the end of the garden?

Just a quick one - does everyone know about the Bumbo safety thingy?

When I was at the children's centre on Wednesday, they said they had had an email from the Bumbo people saying they shouldn't be used until you've emailed them and they've either issued you with a free safety belt, or told you otherwise.

More info here (though that's mainly about raised surfaces...) and email address to contact here.

Sorry if someone's mentioned it and I've missed it, and you probably all know anyway. I just saw a picture on one of my friends' walls of a Bumbo being used on a raised surface and it suddenly reminded me, so I thought I'd share it just in case.

Will catch up properly tomorrow. Dream, brooking for a better night for you tonight. I like Biscuits's suggestion - S in your room, which might make life easier for you and him? Or would that disturb your DH so much (who is one who really needs sleep, am I right in thinking? Mine's like that..). Then again you desperately need sleep, so I'd go for whatever's easiest for you...

Oooh good point Musical - I keep meaning to say about that. I phoned the number on the link you posted and they sent a strap out to me. Just arrived yesterday but we haven't put it on yet.

Is it just me, but I am a bit that people put them on raised surfaces? Doesn't that seem a bit daft? I once put ds2 on my dining chair while ds1 was eating his tea so they could see each other but the whole time I was knelt (is that a word? Looks weird) down at the side of the chair with my arm round the Bumbo. I know that if the baby flips themselves out they could hurt themselves but I think certainly the majority of injuries have happened when the baby has pushed themselves out on a raised surface and thus the injury isn't really from falling out of the chair, it's from falling off a table .

I guess people use them for weaning etc so maybe then you might have it on a table to reach more easily, but even then, I wouldn't leave it unattended?

Dream what about it B went back in your room because he won't disturb DH, and then you can sort S out without disturbing B or DH? Or would that disturb B? I know ds2 here starts snuffling etc when we go to bed and often wakes up when DH thumps around gets up in the morning.

What about a spare room? It must be even more difficult to try settling a baby with the risk of waking another sleeper. Hmmmm. So so so difficult

My DH only has 2 settings too! He can sleep right through M crying in the same room. It's not fair. And he always wakes M up in the mornings - his tiptoeing is louder than my normal walking, and he's got a bit of hayfever and sniffs incredibly loudly and obnoxiously. M seems to have bat ears. Maybe I should start closing her door and taking the baby monitor to bed with me, rather than leaving her door and ours open so I can hear her at night and leaving the monitor in the living room. The bathroom is next to her room and I woke her up last night flushing the toilet.

Last night was a bit better - still up every hour or two, but M settled back down again after each one, rather than letting me drop off and wailing again. I think I might have fallen asleep in the armchair in her room for an hour too, but perhaps I just got confused about what time it was really - surely I would have dropped her if I did fall asleep?

Biscuits, I have been guilty of putting M in the Bumbo on the kitchen table or the worktop and then getting on with cooking/loading the dishwasher. However, if, God forbid, she did fall out, it would be entirely my fault and not the Bumbo people's, so I wouldn't be suing. It says on it not to put your baby on a raised surface, so how can they be liable if you do? I also took it with us when we went out for lunch and put it on a bench seat (banquette?) in the pub, but she was next to me all the time and I would have caught her before she could fall. I'm not going to phone up for a safety strap though, because M has lost patience with the Bumbo now and would rather be in the bouncer/walker/rubber ring thing where she can move about a bit more. She starts arching her back and trying to get out and if she tipped it in the kitchen she'd be on a hard floor. I do sometimes use it outside while I'm hanging the washing out, but M is fascinated by nature, for want of a better word, and sits still staring at the grass and the hedge and the bees and everything moving in the wind. Besides, if she falls out on the lawn she won't hurt herself.

Dream, the suggestion of separating B and S at night seems good to me - is there any way you can do that?

Jaggy, I meant to be in bed by 9.30/10 last night and instead kept on reading my new book until I finished it at midnight. Oops. Therefore I can't complain about tiredness today, because I could have had an extra 2 hours sleep between M's 10pm wake-up and her midnight one.

Hawthers, you can go out and buy beautiful new bras now! I was trying on some of my old bras yesterday and it is amazing how much better one's boobs look in a proper underwired bra. Or does it take a few weeks for your boobs to settle after stopping bf? Do they shrink? Mine are still a 32 FF at best guess, so part of me wants some shrinkage and the other part is worried about the dreaded sag.

Too might it be worth getting the safety strap anyway? It is free and you might use the Bumbo for the next mini-too (and the one after, and the one after that....)? I was also thinking that I'll sell mine when ds2 is done with it so it should help to sell it with the safety strap.

I hope I haven't offended with what I said about the raised surfaces

Oh God, you talking of bras Too has reminded me of something I've been cringing about for the last 3 weeks. We took DS to a theme park and DS and I were on this ride which goes round and round really fast and we were sitting in the car thing with just a bar over the waist. Anyway DH decided to film it. I didn't give it a second thought until the next day when PIL were round and DH decided to plug the camera into the tv to watch our latest footage. My boobs looked horrendous!!! As we were flying round and round the force was sort of flinging them out sideways, as in different directions. It looks like I was about to take off. We all just sat and watched it in silence like this I can't WAIT to get back to wearing underwired bras.

Thanks musical I had no idea about that! A uses hers in the bathroom and my bedroom in the morning and occasionally has a meal in it. Have ordered strap now.

Too - when I stopped feeding dd1 my boobs went to a D (an E pre dds). I was delighted! Bit saggier but I didnt care! I adored my boobs in between the girls and am hoping that the FF's I am sporting currently go back down to a D (or maybe even a C - I could then buy bras from ANYWHERE ). It did take a while to shrink and settle from memory though.

Oh Dream :( I have no advice either. I suspect babies either sleep or they don't. Much as we'd like to think it's our brilliant techniques, I imagine it's all innate really. With S being an example. :( :( Will he drink from a bottle? Could you get a night off by asking DH or one of your parents to have him for one night with lots of expressed milk?

at Scarlet and the mammaries. That sounds awful! I wish somewhere did underwired nursing bras. I'm sure if you were properly fitted you wouldn't get blocked ducts/mastitis. On the Panache discussion thread (which I joined because I was hoping to win the Panache vouchers) someone mentioned getting underwired nursing bras from Rigby & Peller and I got all excited despite being stony broke and unable to afford a pair of pants in R&P, much less a bra, only to discover that their online store has precisely one nursing bra, an Anita one. I was really peed off. I thought R&P were supposed to be the most amazing bra company ever, and they only do one nursing bra? Pah!

Oooh, imagine being able to buy bras from anywhere and not only from Bravissimo or similar large-chested expensive shops! My sister gets lots of Topshop bras on sale. I told Mum that I was a 32FF and she was shocked rigid. She always wears a 36B. But if you go with the old-fashioned measurements - ie adding 4 inches to your actual underbust measurement to get your band size - then your cup size comes up small, whereas if you go with the newer (Bravissimo) way then you have a smaller band size and larger cup. Which fits better. DH will be miserable if my boobs shrink, though.

M has gone down for an early nap. Clearly the effort of being up so much in the night is wearing her out! I remember having counted 4 wake-ups by about 4.30am - and that's starting when I went to bed at midnight. Either that or she wanted to get away from my singing...

Biscuits, you didn't offend me! I know it's silly to put a baby on a raised surface. That's a good point about getting a safety strap for the next mini-Too to come along. Did you have to pay for it or are they free?

I seem to be unique on the boobage front see what I did there?

I hate underwired bras so am quite happy with nursing bras. If they still fit after I finish bf then I will continue to wear them. Also the add 4 inches works for me, if I get measured the new way then I get given too small a band size and it cuts into me. Not nice having a sore red line around me at the end of the day.

I much prefer wearing a non-underwired bra too Rubber. It feels like I've not got one on at all. Problem is it also looks like I've not got one on So I will go back to wearing horrible, uncomfortable wired ones.

DD still full of snot, but still smiling bless her. DH was out last night and I spent the whole evening pacing up and down with her to try and help get her to sleep, it wasn't fun. Still, I am out tonight and DH will have his turn

DS finally has his blood test this afternoon. He still has a lumpy scabby head but he's still not unwell. The anti-biotics obviously haven't worked. So it remains a mystery.

Joining the bra size chat, I've been trying to figure how to measure and when to measure for a nursing bra. I'm 36wks today and out of curiosity I measured myself the other day. I measured 34 underbust and 38 around. Before pg I was in a 34A and my maternity bras are 36B (although 36 may be a little snug) Have looked on the internet for advice and its all very confusing. I don't want to buy too many bras or spend a huge amount either.

R has missed his nap so has been awake for hours apart from a doze while feeding. despite his big brother's best efforts to cheer him up he was v grumpy. currently in sling chewing and dribbling.

somehow need to get DS1 onto and off of potty (both a challenge) and down for a nap with nappy on with no screaming.