September 2011 babies are rolling into 2012

[ssmileWithFairylights]

Hello in new thread come over and chat part two from the September edd babies arriving thread.
Just watched strictly dancing final part one but can't keep eyes open for part two so off to bed now will watch.it tom. Sleep well.....zzzzz

Hello again and thank you for my warm welcome back to join you all - lovely to hear from friends old and new - and of course a huge sense of relief and fascination hearing just how similar and how different these babies are!

Ok. I have spent several hours catching up on the news and have reserved the laptop for 10 mins to give a quick(ish) update on all things DS since he was born on 29/09/11 - 6 days late if you recall my mews of impatience from our ante natal thread :o

I think I already gave brief overview of birth story so will bypass that (sighs of relief all round) though suffice to say it was a speedy one and our darling boy was cuddled for a good half hour by his daddy before I stopped shaking and felt able to hold him. This still remains difficult to resolve - a bit of post-delivery guilt/shock/disappointment is hanging on, though thankfully this hasn't tainted or delayed my enduring love for my little boy.

We're 14 weeks in now, and have followed a routine from the early days - basically Gina Ford (I realise this is not a popular route for many!). I was EBF until around 6-8 weeks when introduced a late formula bottle and now combination feeding (aptimal x3 a day, rest b/f). DS is a big boy (around 16lb) but doesn't take more than 4-6oz at each feed and won't go longer than 3 hours during the day without a feed. On an ideal day I feed him at 7, 10, top up b/f before nap at 11.30, 2.30, split feed at 5 and then after bath at 6.15 and then dream feed at 10.15. He sleeps from around 6.30pm to 10.30pm when he has dream feed, then sleeps until between 5 and 7am. This is very variable at the moment - we have had a few lovely long sleeps till 7 but mostly around 5.30 when I b/f and then he goes back to sleep till 7.30 latest.

Daytime he has a morning nap (30-45mins), lunchtime nap (1-2.5 hours) and afternoon nap (20mins in pram). The lunchtime nap is great as it gives me time to get stuff done and have lunch myself, but recently he has woken after 45mins ish and sometimes hard to get back to sleep. If so I go for a pram push and he drops off again.

Writing it down makes it sound so much more settled and sorted - and easier - than it actually is! I do find it hard work and am constantly working out how to tweak the hours when something goes wrong - the downside of the routine I guess. It is also easier to feel that you are failing when it doesn't happen to the book. I would cheerfully throttle Gina Ford any day of the week - but then I'd also do it the same way again, as I am so grateful for a bit of predictability, and DS really is a lovely, happy (dare I say it contented?!) baby.

Tell you what - it's great coming into the thread 3 months in as I have skipped all the horrendous sleep deprived, cracked nipples, piles (yep), unidentified crying etc moments. Please don't read the above and think I am boasting or being smug as it is by no means perfect and frequently all goes tits up and leaves me feeling far worse than I would I imagine if I was just chilling out and going with the flow.

I have NO idea how to tackle the next phase however. Weaning, moving around etc bring me out in a rash. I need some company, good advice, rational thinking and a good kick up the backside (mind the piles) - hence am back to muck in with my favourite muckers :o

I would apologise for the essay but I did warn you, I'm catching up - and besides you lot write essays most of the time anyway

Happy evenings all!

@ essay writing!

Interesting that a lot of our DCs are getting a bit rubbish about daytime naps. DD has also become a bit temperamental and tends to wake after 30 mins or so but if I'm quick then I can boob or shush-pat her back to sleep and she'll stay down for a good couple of hours. She's also being rubbish in the evenings too and we are shush-patting her until she's in deep sleep which is a PITA but DS was exactly the same at this age and he eventually grew out of it at about 7mo. I'm tempted to just start leaving her to settle herself in her cot as she doesn't cry, she just jabbers away.

DS was this age when he completely went for a burton and wouldn't sleep for longer than 45 minutes ever, the little toad. I spent the whole of my first mat leave reading about babies and sleeping and for those of you who like to do the same, I really found that the the NAPS routine and The No-Cry Sleep Solution were my favourites. The NCSS in particular is brilliant and reassuring and very lovely in the way that it's written and there is no a whole series of No-Cry Solution books (including a napping one )

PS thanks Obsidian, I buy DS's eco pull ups on Amazon but I never thought to get DD's Pamers there too

Pampers

We took delivery of approx 1000000 pampers the other day from amazon that work out at 9p per nappy. DS attempting to fill one now as practise...

Morning all had a much better last couple if nights.

Have to say though ds will not go to bed until he is ready still. Tried last night to put him down as he had not really had any sleep during tge day. Took him up at 6;30 and brought him back down at 7:45 as needed to put dd down and he wasn't having any of it!

Glad to hear it's not just my LO refusing to nap during the day.. Although, having said that, she's asleep now! And after refusing to nap at lunchtime yesterday, she then conked out between 3 and 5 - contrary baby! Then wouldn't go to bed as she wasn't tired enough - sigh.

Loves it's nice to hear you've had a better couple of nights. Last night was a bit better for us too. Fed at 8pm, 1.30am and 5.15am. Would have been quite pleased with that but LO decided it was morning after the 5.15 feed and it took about an hour to get her back to sleep.. Still, feel a bit less broken this morning. She won't go to bed until she's ready either - if you try to put her down too early she screams the house down .

Thanks for the book recommendations Feral - will check those out on Amazon. I am completely obsessed with sleep at the moment so may as well have something to read other than MN!

TP I am very jealous of your routine . That sounds exactly what I'm trying (but failing!) to encourage my LO towards. She doesn't seem to need feeding as often now, and the last few days it's been 7.30, 11, 2.30, quick feed at 4.30ish, and then bottle at 6.15 after her bath. She's napping at 9 for around 45 minutes, and then for about an hour at lunchtime. Do you mind me asking you a couple of questions?!

Which feeds are bf and which are formula? We're giving one bottle of formula at 6.15 at the moment, but would consider doing this more often if it helps establish a routine and/or improves sleeping..

How does the dreamfeed work? I would like to try this but am hesitant to get her out of her cot in case I wake her up!! How long do you feed for and do you think it helps your LO sleep longer at night? Do you use a bottle or bf?

Thanks in advance!

Sorry - another essay

Hope you all have lovely days - Friday at last

Obsidian, I dream fed DS in a desparate bid to get a few hours extra (he was EBF). He did used to take a good feed and then go straight back to sleep in his cot and it was a lovely snuggly bonding time for us. I think, in theory, it's supposed to be possible to give a bottle without even lifting the babe out of the cot, just a bit of propping, and because they're asleep they don't gulp and don't get so windy.

However the downside was that the 10.30 feed became part of his routine and he eventually started waking for it, earlier when it was growth spurt time, and it meant that if we went out then I had to be back to feed him before he woke (although I suppose that if you gave a bottle then that wouldn't be a prob) but there was a whole series of The Apprentice where I never once saw a firing because he started waking at 9.45 every night ! Even now he is 3yo, when he's having a phase of rubbish sleep, he still has that wake-up time in his body-clock which is a right PITA as it's our bedtime too!

Since DD seems to be capable of going from bedtime to 1am-ish, I am resisting the temptation to do the DF as I want to be able to go out and not dash home! It is very tempting to see whether she would go without one of her night feeds if I did it but she only wakes twice in the night anyway and I want to see whether I can get through the 4 month regression without changing too much iyswim.

obsidian we actually do wake DS up for his dream feed, which is a bottle (expressed b/m). My DH gently wakes him at 10.15pm, changes his nappy and then gives him a bottle from which DS drinks around 6oz very sleepily. He then goes back to sleep in his cot. This takes him through till between 5-7am (last night it was 6am then he slept again till 7.30am). The idea is to slowly reduce the amount he drinks at the dream feed once he has started to wean. The calories consumed during the day eventually mean he drops it completely. Obviously feral has the experience of having done it this way before and found it can be restrictive - but I am not b/feeding at this time (as I go to bed at 9pm!) so less so for me. My fingers will be crossed that he doesn't pick up the habit - as yet he does need to be woken and doesn't wake up automatically.

The formula bottles we give are the bigger feeds - 10-11am, 2.30pm and 6.15pm. The rest are b/f (and the expressed b/m dream feed).

By the way I ALWAYS go for a pram push at 3.30pm every day and DS sleeps for around 20mins from 4pm. If he misses this sleep the evening routine (split feed and bath) is cranky and he either falls asleep before taking a full feed or cries until I b/f for comfort.

My routine has definitely made my life more restrictive as I am less inclined to do anything to disrupt it. I reckon if I had other DCs I'd have to compromise and be less by the book - but for now it is working really well and we are all happy. I haven't been out for a night out since he was born but this is cos I haven't wanted to yet! We've been able to have friends over instead as we know we have from 7pm 'free'.

Hope this helps - not for everyone I know.

I think gina Ford is like Marmite you either love it or hate it and that depends a lot on if your child conforms. My SIL has both her DDs in that routine& loves it, I now hate it. I tried endlessly with DD1 to do it. I feel rather bitter now at how much stress it caused me as with this DD I'm just feeding, napping on demand and its SO much easier and enjoyable experience. As mothers we get so much guilt and children are ALL different I think you should just do what feels right for you, if GF works then do it but if it doesn't don't flog a dead horse (like I did with first babe) just enjoy the baby stage it doesn't last long :)

100yrs, like the idea of the washing basket, my DH put him in a huge cooking pot the other day, nearly gave me a heart attack when I took lid of.
Welcome back TP hope things have gone well for you.
Thanks for book reccommendations, look forward to trying something new as read lots of crime books (Lee Child, Karin Slaughter)
Obsidian - is White Tiger about an avalanche as read it 2 days ago thought it was really good.
Watched OBEM and felt more empathy for the women though the stressy dad was a PITA. Makes me so glad that my LO is fine and healthy though.
Had awful night last night. DH away and LO had 3rd jabs. Started screaming at lunchtime and kept having crying fits - his legs were really red and a bit swollen with a temp so had no sleep till 3am when the smoke alarm battery started dying and damn thing kept beeping LOUDLY! He sleeps better during day as is on his front but am getting stricter about him being in crib so slow progress. Look forward to DH coming home and he really misses LO which is lovely.

The White Tiger I read was about India, and is here:

Amazon

Thanks for all the advice about feeding and sleeping - might try the dream feed idea tonight. Wish me luck

Poor you Candr Hope you have a much better night tonight.

DD has fed and slept reasonably well today, so have got my fingers crossed for tonight. She is quite fussy when she feeds sometimes though - pulling off and shrieking. Has anyone else had this? I spoke to a bf Counsellor today and she suggested it might be either painful gums/early teething or she's getting frustrated because the milk isn't coming out fast enough after the initial let down. I've got some bonjela to try on her gums, but I don't know what I can do about the milk not coming fast enough, other than try formula instead. I'll persevere for a few days, but I'm worried she's not eating enough during the day at the moment , which might be why she's waking up a lot at night.. But then she feeds really well at night - ARGH!

I'm with Ssmile on GF; I nearly killed myself trying to get DS to conform and it didn't make him sleep any better anyway! However I really think GF has a point when it comes to daytime kipping and trying to avoid letting babies get over tired. I certainly took some good ideas from it and also from The Baby Whisperer but I will never try to follow a book routine again as it's just not for me and it would be impossible with two anyway.

Candr, that sounds miserable I really hope DS is OK soon; and at baby stew!

Obsidian, DD is also fussy feeding atm. I put it down to (a) her teeth and gums beginning to make their presence felt (I prefer teething powders to bonjela btw, and so have both DCs. Boots are good) and (b) being 4 mo and having improved vision and being more interested in her surroundings than in my boob! unless she is starving my DD just snacks if I feed her anywhere where there are any distractions and, like yours, does a good big feed in the dark and quiet. DS was exactly the same, they grow out of it (or not, and then you wean them at 6mo and it doesn't matter anyway).

Still have no voice, or rather what I do have is very croaky. Bit sore throat and just general meh, not quite myself. But I'm chilling and doing very little. Although we did go out for lunch today with a friend which was lovely.

Got a referral done for the Tongue Tie, so it's wait for the appointment now, have a lovely NCT lady at the BF group who was the lady who saw me(at home) before Christmas and she got one of the HV to do the referral.

Also got LO weighed (I snuck in before the other mums were there) to be honest I don't think I'm carrying a cold virus, not really snotty or temp etc, just got a bad throat like I get when I am tired if that makes sense. Anyway LO is now 12lb12oz, bless her, following the 25 centile line, although she's a little under it now as opposed to over it.

Sorry for not catching up with everyone.

Just a quick check in to say hi!

My running thread is doing well, and it's surprising how much it has motivated me! I'm determined to keep it going but did find it difficult with DH getting back late from work yesterday.

My lo is not too bad at the moment, had a bit of unexplained crying today though, but he settled after patting and singing to him, bit embarrassing when shopping in debenhams with a friend!

Sorry can't catch up with everyone, I'm on my phone - do I have to do the hash tags?

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gosh ive missed a lot!! just scanned thru a few posts- highchairs - if still at all relevant. if space is an issue or u like things neat and tidy get 1 that folds flat for storage. look for 1 that will be easy to clean- not with a seat full of nooks and crannies :) if u will be moving it about eg visit other ppl a lot perhaps weight may be an issue? be good to look in the sales.

sebs i think- re sleeping and feeding. some babies sleep thru from birth or just a few weeks old, everyones different just like u and I. neither of our 1st 2 slept thru til they were in their own rooms, both bf on demand with formula when i was out and about and some evenings. this lo is bf on demand and not sleeping thru but at least i know he's feeding well. theres no harm in trying different sleeping methods if u would like to-i imagine different methods work for different people. just as for me I wouldnt have the mental strength so will stick with things as they are. good luck

sounds like a few lo's are rolling over i really need to give our lo more tummy time and less cuddle time!!!

Thanks for your reassuring words Feral, although not sure I can cope with the snacking, pulling off and screaming for another couple of months! She's sometimes only feeding for seconds, rather than minutes, so am still worried she's not getting enough. I tried expressing this morning, when she wouldn't feed at 11ish (last feed before that was 7am) and feeding her the EBM with a bottle, which she happily guzzled .

Not sure if this means she prefers a bottle (she's only had one a day since 11 weeks) or can look around more when bottle fed. I don't really want to express every day as I find it uncomfortable and don't get that much even with a pump. Not sure whether to try introducing more formula during the day?? I don't really want to yet, but I'd rather she was feeding well, particularly as if she hasn't fed she doesn't sleep as well.

Plus, it's getting rather embarrassing and stressful trying to feed her in public when she constantly screams and pulls off, leaving me rather exposed and with quite a distressed baby!

Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated!

We had a much better night last night thankfully - only two get ups.. Fingers crossed for tonight.

Hope you are all having lovely Saturdays, xx

obsidian the behaviour you describe is similar to what we experienced until we started to introduce more bottle feeds. I lost the use of one boob just after the 6 week growth spurt - it was always the lesser producing one but got increasingly more sore with blocked ducts and then thrush (which was v painful). DS was very frustrated feeding on it and kept pulling off, headbutting my boob and crying until I put him on the working one. I couldn't express anything at all from this boob, so this combined with decreasing feeds was a killer for left boob - now defunct completely!

Anyway, I have discussed situation with other NCT friends and the slow let down or lack of milk does seem to frustrate the babies and lead to the snacking approach you describe. It appears your LO likes the efficiency of feeding from a bottle - but I do empathise with your reluctance to introduce more formula. I am sure others (especially those successfully EBF) will have advice as to how you can prolong the b/feeding, but I would just say that we have resolved similar problems here by combination feeding and mealtimes are happy and calm as a result. Try not to feel guilty if you end up going down this route.

Bought a cushi tush (who makes up these cringeworthy names?!) today on Amazon. DS is increasingly enjoying being upright and less happy on his lambskin rug, which was previously favourite place for a kick.

We went for a walk to see the ducks today, both in navy blue padded ensembles and DS in his carrier - a lovely sunny walk with a happy boy. The spring bulbs are coming through and deceiving me into thinking the change of season is on its way. No doubt we'll get some snow in Feb!

Fingers crossed for good nights for all :o)

Not sure how old your Lo is obsidian but mine had a very disruptive couple wks around 15-17wk mark. Now she 19wks generally feeds better but if its too noisy busy she more interested in what's going on around so I take her somewhere quiet to feed. I've even fed in pub/cafe toilet as she was hungry but too disrupted by the surroundings.

Today been ouch day! Babe keeps clamping my nipples when feeding. She been very hungry and not want to be put down much, endless norring of my fingers &muslins and loud groaning. But flipping heck my poor nips! I've taken her off with a firm No each time but she just seems hungry She has not rolled over yet but really doesn't like play mat or floor time just wants to be held or sitting up watching world go by in her chair. She always has very limited tummy time as always makes her sick. She strong though so I'm not unduly worried. It's nearly full moon so my eldest DD all day been manic LOOK AT ME day, bloody hard work as DH been in garden most of day mending fence that blew down Thursday so been solo parent. Phew be glad to sink into my bed tonight.

Hows it going with three jimmijam must be very hard work! I'm finding two very tough at times, I get short tempered with my 4yr old then feel like bad mother when really she just being very lively and I'm ttttired..

Mine's just started pulling on and off the breast, hope this isn't a sign of things to come...

Thanks for high chair advice! Jimmi you speak such wise words of experience, I'm glad you're on this thread!

Ssmile my LO has drawn blood from my breast with his fingernails! Hope your feeding gets more comfortable soon. Obsedian I hope that your feeding solves itself too, whatever route you take.

OMG. Ds has just turned over . Put him on his front to 'talk' to daddy cause he was showing signs of wanting to go to bed and he rolled over on his left! So of course put him back on his front and he did it again. Not being statisfied I put him back in his front and he rolled to his right nooooooo he needs to stay my little baby

On phone before I crash out so sorry for quick replies or if I miss somethings...

Jimmi - thanks for reply. She's naturally changed her feeding times funnily enough - we're in a whole new feeding times today so going to see how it spans out, especially tonight. Mind you she's just kicked off big style trying to get her to sleep but unlike before we've managed to calm her quickly and she's asleep now!! A week ago she did the same and we took ages to calm her so really pleased tonight. Must have learnt something!!

Feral - got the no cries sleep book today - have managed to skim read a few early chapters and looks a really good practical book with lots of ideas to take or discard to suit - looking forward to reading it properly - thanks for tip.

TP - walk to the ducks sounds lovely :) has been a better day but wind picked up again tonight

To those bf with issues - can I just say I'm in awe of you and think you're doing a brill job and well done for getting this far.

Seems to be getting a little harder these days as LOs become more aware and demanding but without capacity to play for long ... But equally an exciting time and LO seems to be learning something new each day and her full on chuckles just make me burst with pride and love for her... Challenging but rewarding times!!!

However, knackered now with capital K so off to sleep wondering when LO will wake for a feed in her new feeding times!!! Night all, sweet dreams mums and babies :)

OMG my reward for the full on day yest of endless feeding and demanding DD1 was heavenly sleep 7-6 with one fed 2am for which I was only awake 20mins :) the downside woken up feeling full of cold again Noooooo I've not shifted the one I've had last two wks :(
For those with fussy BF issues have a look at the kellymom.com site. I've also read that around 4mths couple things happen. Milk supply changes and babes become a lot more aware so do look around more. But it does pass I do remember getting through this phase before. Sorry its short I'm always on phone need to go stop DD1 waking up DH as he too full of cold again. Have gd Sundays

Does any one else have a LO that seems to be having growth spurt at 16w?, have gone from 2 or 3 feeds at night to waking hourly. Don't know how I will manage when he is in own room and cot in a couple of months if this doesn't settle down. Am half looking forward to him being in own room but love having him in bed with me for part of the night. He is teething and can feel a top tooth now which hurts more when I bf as he tries to chew me. Why has someone not invented a chew toy for babies that is the shape and texture of a finger?

Candr my lo did that at 15-16 weeks, settled down now at 17-18 weeks to once a night waking again. I'm reluctant to call it a growth spurt as he still hasn't put on any weight! But hope your lo's waking is only temporary too.