Just mumming (viroids 1)

[fraktious]

So we don't scare the viroids on the antenatal thread with horror stories of no sleep, chomped boobs and endless laundry or make them envious with tales of cuteness....

I never gave cooled boiled water pre weaning, just BF more. The thing is that they don't want to eat as much - big feeds plus hot weather make them sleepy - so they do need smaller, more frequent feeds to get the calories as well as quench the thirst. Mother nature sorts it - remember humans evolved in the tropics

I really recommend reading a book called the Wonder Weeks if you're wondering whether weaning at 4/5 months will solve sleep issues. It explains it all really well.

We BLW with occasional laziness resorting to jars of fruit purée. It was a good week before M at anything and we started at 23 weeks when all the signs were gone. If the tongue thrust is there they physically aren't ready to cope with bringing any solid food that obstructs their breathing back up - the reflex is a protective measure until they develop that capability.

Oh and dummy on plane is non productive rather than swallowing - its the swallowing you need so don't stress about the non dummy.

He will root for boob if he needs it and the pressure changes are quite gradual so he can bob on and off.

Thanks for the dummy advice ladies and the flight/water quandary Frak

Truly awful day here, culminating in my telling DS to "shut the fuck up" in a public place :( Feel wretched :( Cried :(

I don't know what it is. Maybe teeth? His napping is minimal at the moment and he just can't get himself to sleep. It's my fault. I have always taken him for a walk to get him to sleep during the day and now I can't get him down in his cot to nap. He also now wakes almost immediately when we return so I get no down time. As for bed time. I feed him to sleep and then DH has to settle him when he wakes up 40 mins later, and the 30 mins after that. And after that :(

Feel like a failure at the moment. I have been so silly to get him in to this pattern and I have no idea how to resolve it. He just cries if I try and put him down in his cot during the day whether I get him before he gets over tired or try once he starts grizzling. His inability to settle in the evening is probably connected.

Just feel awful today :(

We've all been there. It's so tough - the nice fluffy hormones are wearing off, sleep deprivation is kicking in and you think you've ruined everything because habits start to show.

Good news is you haven't! You can try PUPD, or you can embrace it wholeheartedly (like us ), or the No Cry Sleep Solution has tons of other practical bits of advice. Just do what feels right to you.

Btw M still naps in a sling after a walk, feeds to sleep at night and cosleeps. He let's me know he needs the contact and I'm a crunchy hippy so that's what we do. I just read books to make me feel better about it lots

I could have written Fraks post. All babies are different, it isn't anything you have 'done'.

Oh val, love, we all have days like that. Don't beat yourself up about it. Sleep deprivation is such a draining thing and remember you've been putting up with it for more than 4 months. It's inevitable that you snap occasionally, but it doesn't make you a bad mummy, just human! You're doing a fab job with DS and don't you forget that!

About the sleep. First off, its great that DS settles back down for DH. Shows he's not totally dependent on bf to get to sleep. Can you exploit that so that you feed him til almost asleep then DH put him down? I have done the whole pick up thing (baby whisperer) which worked for us, though only for the first "going to bed" put down, not for naps or returning to crib. Try to read Elizabeth Pantely's website, or her book, no cry sleep solution. It's really gentle, both for you and baby. Also google the child of mind blog. I linked to it further upthread. 4 months is a bugger of a time for sleep anyway. Sorry for not doing links, am typing one handed and trying to keep dd off the iPad! I find it does help if dd goes down awake and falls asleep in her crib, otherwise she does exactly as your DS. It was hard work to get her to do it though, which is where pick up came into it, and as I say, she still doesn't like it in the day.

Keep posting, we'll hold your hand til it gets better! Xxx

Val your post brought a whole lot of memories from DS at that age flooding back. It was SO hard and things weren't perfect and I wasn't perfect and and and. And sadly unlike you I had no support and didn't know who to ask and nor did the people I did ask. The good news is we got through it and he is a happy well rounded little guy. Also with DD I'm not having a lot of the problems I had 1st time as I knew what to expect and made sure I was better prepared and am more relaxed. DS is your first and no matter how well prepared you felt you were, well you can see where I'm going with this.

Don't beat yourself up, take a step back and a deep breath and vent to us any time you need to xx

(Ps I too still feed DD to sleep, though we don't co-sleep anymore. And one of her naps is usually in the pushchair)

Thank your lovely viroids. Awful nights sleep last night but still feeling better about it all. He is such a lovely, smiley happy baby that the sad times make me think I have done something to put him there as he is so happy otherwise. Off to the library today for book recommendations and to Gymboree this arvo for a trial session so fingers crossed. DH out tonight so bed time is going to be a test. That said, I will probably go to bed with him at 7:30

How was today val? Hope you get a better night tonight.

Dd has been a sleep monster today. 2.5 hour nap in car seat this morning then a 1.5 hour nap in crib in the afternoon. She was really grumpy too until after the pm nap. Still went down to bed on time and has just had her "dream" feed- though she fully wakes up for it, but has gone back in her crib without too much protest. I want to know who this is and what they've done with my real sleep refusing baby! Doubt it'll last though.
Dd got her first taste of solid food today, a little bowl of baby rice. She's 4.5 months, though would be 5 had she not been so late. For over a week I've not seemed to have enough milk to satisfy her in the afternoons (other times of day seem ok, though there's a ? over sleep at night). She wolfed it down, and managed a good few mouthfuls herself as I gave her the pre-loaded spoon. Can't say I intended to go with early weaning as I wanted to do mostly BLW, but she clearly enjoyed it. But she will be wearing a bigger bin tomorrow. And possibly a shower cap...

LOL Esk is it almost BLW if she was clearly happy to receive the food and fed herself?! DS is only a week behind her but wouldn't have the coordination to get spoon to mouth. He could probably grab it but we would need to plastic wrap the kitchen and each other!!

Posted on the feeding boards as wondered if some formula or baby rice might help DS. He seems to get a bit frustrated feeding at the moment and I wonder if the grump is hunger? They seem to suggest holding off and that it is a 'classic' 4 month growth spurt. So hard to know what to do.

He was an arse yesterday. Went to Gymboree for the first time which he cried through. The only time he wasn't in an arse was when feeding or immediately afterwards :(

That sounds like a growth spurt val. You don't need formula or baby rice if he has plenty of wet nappies and seems awake and alert (even if grouchy). It's normal, really it is. Tough but normal.

It's really tough about the food isn't it? I decided to give it a go precisely because of things like the coordination, and dd can just about sit up, not totally independently but is rock steady in her bumbo. She also shows a real interest in food when I eat and would have weaned herself on cake anything she could grab from my plate by now if I had let her. She was also very obviously hungry, especially in the afternoons, feeding hourly and clearly not satisfied.

It wasn't an easy decision though. I too thought it was a growth spurt but it's been going on for 3 weeks or more now, and a spurt should mean you catch up in days. I also did a lot of research into why the recommendation has changed to 6 months and not a mouthful before. Most of it seems to be connected to gut immaturity leading to allergies. However a friend of mine has both her children under the care of the country's leading allergy specialist and he doesn't agree with this at all, maintaining that allergies to common foodstuffs is primarily genetic. He encouraged her to wean them before 6 months. Also, the basis for the research of the EAT study is that food should be given in very small quantities from 3 months to prevent allergy. I was going to enrol dd in it but then started giving her formula in the evenings so she no longer qualified. There is no way that they would have received permission to carry out the study if it was believed that there was any risk of real harm.

Remember though that my dd was nearly 2 weeks late and wasn't your DS early? So although born a week apart there is a bigger gap.

I doubt though that food or formula will be the sole answer, if an answer at all. Dd has had a formula bottle before bed since she was about 10 weeks. She has never slept well. After her food yesterday she didn't sleep any more than usual.

In the end every baby is different, as is every parent. I really didn't think I would be happy bending current guidelines but through talking to the health visitor and others have come to the conclusion that it was worth trying. I can always stop if it doesn't go well.

Esk welcome to the world of weaning! It sounds like she is ready for it. And you're right, a growth spurt would be over by now. Giving a preloaded spoon is BLW at this early stage. Also don't be afraid to start giving fruit and veg straight off. Whether mixed into baby rice or as finger food/purees. The more foods she tastes now, the more she'll want to try later on.

DD had her first tuna sandwich today. She loved it. Although she did rather look like she was trying to use it as a mud pack... in the middle of Dobbies cafe

Nickel posted pics of Nickelbabygirl on her shops facebook page. Soo cute (and small).

The weaning talk I just went to was terrible. Not in line with nhs guidelines at all. I mentioned to my friend afterwards that I was hoping to do blw. Health visitor overheard and said she had meant to mention it. Then told me I just needed to realise that ds will take a lot longer to sleep well following this method.

So, experienced ladies! Is there a idiots guide to blw that I should purchase?

Not pure BLW but the River Cottage Babies and Children's book is really good. Sensible advice and yummy looking food that the whole family can eat. It does do some pureeing but she gives a nice explanation at the beginning as to why she chose to include them despite being a militant BLWer herself.

Of course there's always the original Gill Rapely book where if you have a spoon in the same room as your child you're an evil mother setting them up for a lifetime of food related angst...

Sorry the talk went against the guidelines. The talk here isn't until 25th jan so a while to wait yet. If anything the health visitors here seem to be the opposite, just spouting guidelines and parroting things at you even when they're clearly irrelevant. I was told that dd is feeding more in the night because she is teething (probably true) so she needs the immunity from the milk. Immunity from what exactly? I'm not denying that breast milk boosts the immune but unless teething is caused by a viral infection it's unlikely to do much good!

Have had more very bad nights here. Last night was awful. Waking every 2 hours and having a tantrum lasting up to an hour each time. The longest stretch was before we went to bed when she slept a solid 4 hours. Am trying hard not to believe that it's the night time formula that helps her sleep that long then breastmilk not satisfying her so she still wakes up. Not entirely succeeding though and am seriously tempted to give more formula at night, but well aware that that would spell the end of bf. :(
I did only intend to bf for 6 months though. That's only 6 weeks away. Think it will be good to try to stick to that as a target as if I aim for any longer then I would be giving up now, if that makes any sense.

Meant to ask...how are you getting on val?

I have the BLW cookbook. I'm still toying with the rivercottage one the Esk has mentioned. Though DD did like the RC polenta chips. I've never had a weaning talk (had to cancel DD's due to V&D bug and they never rescheduled) and we seem to be managing just fine!

Think I would have been better without the talk . Added the books to my amazon shopping basket and feeling less stressed about it all. For some reason I thought that weaning would be straight forward (naive emoticon).

Esk, you have done a fabulous job bf for this long. Six months seems a good target. It will give you enough time to see if sleep problems resolve by themselves. Try and ignore the 'helpful' health visitors and just do what feels right for you and your family.

Hey

So so here. Not much better. I now have chronic headaches from the sleep deprivation I do have awesome support, stayed with my mum in Wednesday and went for a massage (and brutal bikini wax ) which was lovely but then still up a silly amount if times. I gave DS formula the past 2 nights only difference is his farts REALLY sink. It was such a hard decision. He only takes about 100mls of a 180ml bottle but still BF on demand. I can see why people give up completely on BF now as I keep thinking if he were fully FF maybe it would naturally dictate a routine Just Will keep BF as we do both love it. When we are back from abroad I am going to start offering water when he wakes at night to see if that makes him think it just isn't worth it.

Damn confusing babies.

His farts do probably sink but they stink too...

Oh Val, it's not good when you were getting the sleep and then have to do without it again. In my antenatal group half bf and half ff. The two best sleepers are bf. The two worst are bf (mine!) and ff (poor friend still gets woken every two hours). I go through little stages of being jealous of having a routine, so can understand. I think it would make us feel like we had some control back.

Is your ds napping in the day again yet or is it still big walks?

Val there are an awful lot of sad faces coming from you of late. If things don't start to improve for you in the next few days, I would suggest taking yourself to the Dr and getting yourself checked out for PND. Most likely you're just struggling with a tough patch, but it can't hurt to rule it out (or not and therefore get some help).

I've somehow just bought the Rivercottage babies and children cook book in the other window. Hope it's good!

Val have you got an iPhone/iPad? I've just downloaded the wonder weeks app (guess it might be on other smart phones too) and it has a weather chart of your baby's first 2 years in weeks. Weeks 14-20 have a huge storm cloud above them. That's right where your DS and my dd are right now. Problems with teething and massive leaps in cognitive development make for very unsettled babies.
You are doing a great job. There's nothing wrong with giving DS occasional, or even regular bottles of formula. It's baby milk, nothing more or less. That said I cried the first time I gave it to dd. it has made my life easier though and she is still mainly bf. I do think it's a shame that there's so little decent info about mix feeding out there. I stuck to giving set bottles at set times rather than topping up after a breastfeed, although a week or two ago I was topping up and about to give up bf altogether, if you scroll back up you'll see! That's where your DS is now!

Try to sort out those headaches out too. I have had some awful ones recently, sinus related but triggered by stress. You can take both paracetamol and ibuprofen, drink caffeine if it helps and get out in the fresh air lots. At least that's what helps me. Didnt you used to do lots of exercise? Can DH have DS for a couple of hours whilst you go for a run?

I had a lovely friend who is a health visitor in a different area round for lunch yesterday. I called her in in desperation about night sleep. She talks so much more sense that my real HV, possibly because she's a very straight talking person, possibly because she made it clear at the outset that she was not giving progessional advice, just telling me what she thought as my friend (and therefore didn't have to refer to guidelines constantly or worry what would happen if I reported her for giving "wrong" advice) she made everything we're going through so much more normal. She also reassured me on the weaning that she meets hundreds of parents and the vast vast majority have started weaning by 22 weeks.

Dd is loving weaning. She gobbled 2 ice cubes of sweet potato and a lot of baby rice then cried when it ended. She puts the spoon in her mouth herself, the only problem with that being that I can't get it back off her to reload it, so we have to have about 4 spoons on the go a t once! She tries butternut squash today and apple and pear next week. I'm looking forward to 6 months when we can give up on the mush and do BLW properly though. I might see if I can get a pic of her eating on my profile later hopes this doesn't completely out me!