Sept 08 - Insert witty title 'here'

[ILikeToMoveItMoveIt]

Sorry about the crap title ladies, I was lacking inspiration and we were up to our limit on posts!

[ninja]

Starlight you always had a habit of turning up in time for a new title , been following your trials on fb, sounds like wading through treacle.

Thanks Splish and Debs good to hear the perspective of people who've been through it.

Yes Splish some very straight talking. Apparantly I've annoyed one of the posters more than anyone else on MN . It's an interesting brand of critical sympathy!!

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Ninja I've not read much of this thread but I'm truly sorry at how things have panned out for you and your H. I do remember some time ago that he was being an arse. I guess your children are growing up faster than him.

[ninja]

Well - I texted H about half an hour ago to say I'd moved back into the bedroom nd he's just replied:

'suit yourself but that will be the bed I get into when I get back'

I texted back no you won't - other bed made up with clean sheets, be reasonable.

I'll be keeping that text ....

Thanks starlight yes they are.

[splishsplosh]

well ninja - when you look at the bare facts, it's easy to dole out the advice etc. But it's not so easy and straightforward when you're in the middle of it unfortunately

[splishsplosh]

he's so outrageous and disrespectful ninja

[ninja]

He's insisting he's going to come into my bed whether I'm there or not

I wish I had an electric cattle prod

[Meglet]

what a prick (sorry, but he is).

I can't think of anything constructive to say, I can only come up with swear words.

Really hope he doesn't kick off tonight and he grows some balls soon ninja .

[ninja]

Thanks Meg if you want to read more here

[Becaroooo]

God, what an emotionally abusive twat he is ninja

Please please please get some legal advice and get a divorce lawyer on his case!

[Meglet]

Ouch . I just read your thread ninja.

I understand why you've been so reasonable (someone's got to be the grown up! He certainly isn't). But, he's well and truly taking the piss now. I understand you don't want to disruptdd's start to the term but tbh from where I am I'd change the locks today and tell him that's that. Then you've got just over a week before school starts to let the dust settle. And if the dust doesn't settle and he carries on being a prize twunt then at least you have got your house sorted and its up to him if he wants to behave like a prick. If you wait until your dd is at school he might still throw all of his toys out the pram then anyway. If he goes now then you'll be able to tell dd's teacher when you go back so they'll be aware she might not be herself.

Not sure about your holiday in wales earlier. I don't blame you for wanting to go, but he should get a separate caravan, or a tent. He can't walk all over you and expect you to try and hold it all together playing happy familes.

[Meglet]

Eek, that para was a bit bigger than I planned.

FWIW it's easy for us to say what you need to do, much harder when you're in the middle of it all. Hope you're ok and can make some progress sooner rather than later.

[ninja]

Thanks Meglet I might try and buy him out of the holiday and see if my sister wants to come

I'm going to see my parents Thursday and Friday with the kids so I'm thinking of giving him those 2 days to get his stuff out (saves me having to do it). I daren't write that on the other thread as I'll get shouted at again !!

As you say when you're in the middle of it but can see a light you just want to get to that light in what seems like the easiest way possible.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

I just read your thread too Ninja.

It loooks like he wants his cake and to eat it and feels guilty for being a twunt so is trying to contrive a situation where he can emotionally blackmail you into believing that the split is all your fault. Once you have 'accepted that' he can punish you for it by getting you to slave for him and be grateful.

His pitiful behaviour has you switching between confusion as to whether it really is your fault, and concern over his childishness and need to prop up the male figure in your children's life for their sake.

Well he isn't a child. And there are people with more problems than him that weren't of their own making, that survive perfectly well independently. But actually (if I can be a bit honest) your buying the beds etc. for the kids and helping him get sorted is you treating him like a child, or allowing him to continue to be one. The same thing with him having stayed in your bedroom because it has a TV. What is he? 5?

You raised concerns about your relationship on here just after the birth. I hope you don't mind me reminding you that you mentioned that he didn't think he wanted to be your dp any more. You also mentioned that he blamed you for that. That means you have had almost 3 years of having to feel insecure, guilt, worry about the future, being forced to tread on eggshells.

Without wanting to sound mean, I doubt after all that time you have a clear memory of what a normal relationship should be like, or even what you deserve in life. For this reason I think it would be really helpful to contact an organisation and/or solicitor that is experienced in this to give you some independent perspective and help you rationalise it.

It might be hard for you to see clearly the situation, because you have had 3 years of him tying you up in strange and complicated justifcations that after all this time look normal.

Hope that isn't all too harsh. I really am sorry that it has turned out this way. But you are young. You have a future. You need to get on with it.

[ninja]

Thanks Starlight and tbh it's been more than 3 years. We were sacked from relate 6 years ago because of his arueing the counsellor couldn't cope!

I said I would go and get counselling but hadn't got round to it, in September when I have more time I will and try and figure all this out.

You're not being harsh and I'm not that young

I do however have a future which I am looking forward to

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Oh God, I just read that back.

So sorry Ninja, - that really WAS harsh.

See, I'm used to the Special Needs threads and have become a bitter hag and am now extremely blunt when supporting posters how to deal with idiots, because the SN system is evil and any weakness there will be exploited (they used my fathers death against me for example).

Please accept my appologies. It wasn't my intention to make you feel worse. When you read it can you maybe see me as someone who had like 3 seconds to post and not a very good grasp of English or something.......

[CappuccinoCarrie]

I like meglet's thread title suggestion btw! If the new thread goes on as long as this one it'll take us past Christmas into the new year!
ninja since you own the house now I'd totally change the locks while he's out and prove that you're not messing about and mean what you say.
Had BH every 5mins til 2am last night, and only the odd one this morning so I'm feeling sick from lack of sleep again. Can't believe I'll be a full week overdue tomorrow. I'd booked DH and the kids into a gym club tomorrow morning thinking it'd be a fun thing for them to do on paternity leave, instead he's going to have to take time off work to take them, doh!

[ninja]

Starlight really so much less harsh and so much more constructive than some of the people on the other thread who just made me cry!!

You're right his behaviour has made me confused about what's normal or not. Even when I complain about his part of me thinks am I just telling my side, if he told his side would everyone agree with him.

Even though I think he can be emotionally abusive I read things here and think - I do that, does that mean I'm abusive or he's accused me of that am I abusive without knowing.

[ILikeToMoveItMoveIt]

{ninja} ouch, you took a bit of a bashing on that thread. However everyone was on your side and I think the hurtful comments come from their frustration on your behalf.

I have learnt that you cannot have an adult, balanced or sensible conversation with someone who is unreasonable or who would swear black is White, just to win an argument. When people behave like this you cannot reason with them. It is impossible to reason with someone who is unreasonable - and that sounds like your H.

Therefore to have a conversation with people like this you have to be concise and forthright and tell them how the conversation is going to go. They will try and draw you into a conversation, but nip it in the bud. You don't have to be rude, just forthright. It's difficult to start with and you find yourself being drawn into a disagreement before you've even realised it. But one you've cracked it, it's easy and actually quite enjoyable having some control back!

I think you need to tell your H how things are going to go in the future because your current tactics aren't working. He will have a hold over you forever otherwise, and I'm sure you want to eventually move on from this.

Gotta go, Sainsbo's is here. Will return.

[ninja]

"Therefore to have a conversation with people like this you have to be concise and forthright and tell them how the conversation is going to go. They will try and draw you into a conversation, but nip it in the bud. You don't have to be rude, just forthright. It's difficult to start with and you find yourself being drawn into a disagreement before you've even realised it. "

That's what H does - it's really frustrating to have someone who won't discuss things with you. He's got there already

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Okay. Well we all do things that are stupid. And we all treat our partners in disrespectful ways that we would never dream of doing with outsiders. We have expectations and demands and we take out our frustrations on them. We sulk, we shout, we start an argument over a teabag that almost missed the bin.

That is normal on ocassion- yes, but not as an ongoing theme. We snipe at each other along our journey with each other, but the general direction and overall motivation is to look after, support each other and spend quality time together where we put up with the negatives from the other because of what WE get out of it in the long run.

If you make a list of what you get out of the relationship now and what he is getting you will see that it is very skewed in his favour.

It is also worth thinking about how much of your behaviour is a result of his. If you act like an idiot, is it after days of taunting? Is it after years of stress?

Your behaviour is not independent or unaffected by his, which is why it is so essential that it ends.

[MrsArchchancellorRidcully]

I just had to add my bit ninja having 'been there done that (without the massive addition of the kids though)'

You do need to take a stand and make a clean break so the DDs start to come to terms with what is happening BUT do not beat yourself up on your coping strategies.
It is incredibly easy for people on MN to tell you what to do, that H is a twat and change the locks and be done with him.
The reality, as I remember all too well, is somewhat different.

My exH threw things, shouted, pushed me over, slapped me whilst we were breaking up yet I still went on holiday to India with him just before he moved out cos we had paid for the holida. There he pushed me over so hard he bruised by breastbone but that's another hellish story.
Thing is, when you have been in love with someone it is incredibly difficult to break all ties clean, even if you know it's the right thing to do. You don't just fall out of love with someone even if you don't love them anymore.

When he moved out, I felt sorry for him cos financially he had very little. I even paid for his cable TV for another 6 months as he couldn't afford it!

Yes, 7 years later I look back and gasp at what I did for him. But at the time it is very difficult to be the brave Amazonian 24/7.
So, what I am trying to say is, try your best to be the one in control but also don't beat yourself up if you choose the easy route to reduce your stress.

I think the idea of you going on the holiday while he moves out is a very good idea. I'm not sure changing the locks without telling him is the best way to go, although you are well within your rights to do so.

starlight wonderful to 'see' you again. I haven't seen any of your threads but I hope your DS is getting the support he needs (and that DD is thriving too).

Oh and ninja thanks to notcitrus and others, I am looking into reusable nappies and am joining a bf group for after the baby is born!!

Carrie what can I say - hang on in there. Go for a long walk if you can?

[MrsArchchancellorRidcully]

Shed a little tear this morning btw when I heard that NICE finally confirmed a 24 hr blood pressure monitoring is the best way to diagnose high bp cos of white coat syndrome.

If you remember, my bp readings when pg with C were very high and I was put on tablets from a very early time. This led to induction (failed) and they also stopped my milk coming in. Now it looks like I have severe white coat hypertension as my readings at home are perfectly normal and I'm 28 weeks and no tablets this time.

It makes me very sad to think what could have been with C......

[ninja]

MrsA please don't be sad - Charlotte sounds lovely and I think you've more than made up for the start that wasn't as you'd wanted it. Keep strong

Thanks for your comments, I do really appreciate it from someone who understands.

[ILikeToMoveItMoveIt]

It must be really hard if H has discussions with you like that whilst being unreasonable. But he clearly isn't going to change the way he is, so you'll have to find a way to converse (easier said than done I know). Christ, it must be like hitting your head against a brick wall.

I agree with others when they say that it is easy to give advice from the outside, but when it is you in the situation it's a very different matter. You have had years of having to behave a certain way to try and manage your home life and H's behaviour. To then change overnight is nigh on impossible. But change you must, and you probably need to find ways how to do that.

You are a strong woman and a great mum. You have your own house and financial independence. You are so much stronger than you think you are, and sometimes it is shit being strong all the time, but once you get rid of H and access to the girls is all formally sorted, the load you are carrying on your shoulders will get lighter.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

MrsA,

If you contact a bfc they can help you deal with the feelings about C, but it makes me really angry when I hear of a woman blaming themselves for not being more knowledgable than the medics who are PAID to do right by her and her baby. It happens all the time, and it suits the medics. If you think of the language:

Incompetent cervix, failure to progress, poor maternal effort etc etc etc.

In reality these things don't exist or at least are very VERY rare.

I'll find a favourite paragraph of mine from Politics of Breastfeeding (I think) that you might like.

Also, - You might have actually had high bp with C? The trouble is the doubt that is now cast upon that.