Dec 2008 - Hello 2011 the Year of the Toddler!

[DeidreBarlow]

Totally unispired but hope you all find it...

I did promise, Rubes, you are right! Just need to sort out DD1 and I will be back...

Hi everyone

Beans your Dad's birthday sounds lovely, and just what you all needed. I'm v pleased it went well

I'm in a bit of a stunned state this morning. My friends who had a baby last week have found she has downs, and she us currently still in special care as she is struggling to feed. This was a surprise to all and I really want to help, but don't know what to do. I bought a lovely card the other day and now dont know what to write. I think probably a letter offering practical help such as cleaning, as I am good at that (not in my own home, but elsewhere I am), as I am so British in my fear of saying the wrong thing and so not saying anything. Any ideas on how I should behave or if you know anyone with a child with downs and how they cope much appreciated.

Must go now, as I've got to work, but will be back later. Oh, can someone fb me JJs address please?

Zoe: I have no idea what the 'right' thing to say is, but I'm sure a card congratulating them on the birth would be appreciated. Maybe ask someone on 'the SN boards here for more practical suggestions?

That's OK Lady, just don't let it happen again
I've been trying to get sorted this morning to go to toddlers for the first time this year but ds is really pushing it wuith the getting dressed, and everything is a negotiation. For some reason he doesn't want to wear his socks with his shoes dd is unsettled and rosy cheeked which only spells one thing.

Oh dear Zoe that is awfully sad. I'm hopeless in those situations too so probably can't offer any help. I'd keep it simple, aminly as I have a habit of rambling which can lead me to say the wrong things. So probab;y just saying if there is anything you can do to help yada yada, as you would say that even if all was well, however it also cvers the situation. I just don't know how you would start it off except with a general congratulations etc etc. eek sorry to not have anything useful, and so sorry for your friends news.

Right, more coffee is needed. Up late again un-baby related which is so stupid but I just don't get tired until late then I can't wake in the mornings (but obv have to)

Gosh ZJ that's a bit hard on them. I would say send the card, they have still had a baby and congratulations are in order on that front. I think the offer of cleaning help is a great one. Be honest and say you want to offer help but thats the best way you know how. They will appreciate your honesty. My experience of families with special needs is mainly on a professional level. But I can say that they get a lot of people feeling sorry for them, and looking on their new baby in a negative light. I think still sending the card with the offer of help would be a nice gesture. Also maybe you could post on MN to people who have been through what your friend is going through to ask what they can suggest you can do to help.

Coffee number two is consumed. DS1 is off school today, he's not too unwell but he still has this persistent cough plus the painful jaw. He gets this cough every winter and I'm sure it could be helped with some ventalin. I took him to a dutch doctor but he just brushed it off. We are registered with the international clinic now that looks after Expats and have got an appointment with a doctor there on Monday. Hopefully they will take it more seriously, he vomited his breakfast yesterday as he was coughing so much. I swear sometimes being a paeds nurse is so frustrating when dealing with HP about my own children. The GPs here are so blaze about kids health, GPs in England could be annoying too but when it came to kids they were pretty good, and took parental concerns seriously.

Oh took too long to post, Effie said it a lot better than I did.

Oh, Zoe. Your poor friends, what a mass of confused feelings they must be going through. I reckon a card saying congrats and also saying sorry at the same time. It's going to be a big learning curve for everyone, them, you, their families etc to know what their baby's particular downs needs will be and how to handle them. I wd also offer to help in some way but also offer something concrete like the cleaning. Also tell them to call if they need anything, and that if you don't hear from them you'll call on the mobile in a few days/weeks so they can choose whether to take the call or not. Ppl tend to really appreciate talking, but don't always feel like making the first call. Good luck. You are a good friend.

Due date is 22 feb.

Ditto Vg and effie

I am sad for your friends ZJ, it must be a bit of a shock. HOWEVER, let's all think for a minute: they still have a lovely daughter who stands every chance of leading a happy and hopefully fulfilling life. Yes, she and her parents have more challenges than most. But if it was me, I'd still want people to feel happy for me. I wouldn't want them to mourn, as if my daughter was a catastrophe one mustn't talk about. So, I would send an upbeat card, saying "congratulations on your lovely daughter - can't wait to meet her and hope she is out of special care very soon. In the mean time, is there anything practical I can help with?" and leave your friend to talk about the wider implications of her daughter having downs whenever she is ready

Rubes, I am glad you got the passport sent off. I forgot to tell you that when I was overseeing DP filling it in the other day, DD2 rolled off the bed! (Totally my fault!) It was horrendous. I think your passport application must be the most eventful ever As to the hols, could you leave the DCs in the US with DH whilst you nip to the wedding Upper Class? Otherwise, maybe see your friend another time, and tie it in with a visit home when things are less difficult midgey and floody wise?

Spot, so London is back on, possibly? As to living in a flat again - well, if you think about it, the actual rooms are often the same. You just don't have stairs/landing etc!

JB - your new house sounds nice, we can go through the travails of revamping a garden together! Our new one is mad. Hmm, sorry about the health issues. Glad they are keeping an eye on you but sorry they are still a bit gloomy!

Effie, Vag mentioned all the places in Derbyshire I'd have picked out myself! Really uncanny - Bakewell, Buxton, Matlock and even Ashbourne (have fond memories of youth hostelling there). You can sample the waters at Buxton. Sadly I am not up on good places to stay there. Oh, and your CD idea - count me in. I will send you one at the weekend, and anyone else who would like one.

WG, sorry the food was so crap at your weekend but it still sounds like a lovely place. I was poisoned by Goji berries at about 36 weeks, vomitted so hard I bust a blood vessel in my eye (attractive) - and DD1 was fine. Do you have a list of names now? Glad your DH is finding the therapy helpful. BE has been smashing, btw.

Avo - hope your meeting at the school goes well about DD1's reading. Are you not happy? I know it sounds silly but I worry about all that. DP and I could both read when we started school (one of the few things we have in common, ho ho) and were held back horribly. I wouldn't like the same for DD1, if she turned out to be the same.

Vag - you asked whether it was hard to contemplate selling DH's bike, emotionally. Well, actually it's been a problem that I still have so much stuff because I can't let it go, as I have been paying hundreds in storage fees for years, and I just don't have the cash any more. I gave his kids whatever they wanted, and have been able to move furniture and paintings to the new house, but there are still boxes and boxes of other stuff. We lived in a three storey, 4 bedroom flat and it was packed to the gunnels Anyway, the bike is the one thing I have no qualms about as in all the time I knew him he used it once so it's not something I associate with him He was having chemo at the time and Scarlett Johanssen was filming in Hyde Park for Woody Allen's 'Match Point', and he wanted to see her and wasn't sure his legs would carry him there fast enough so he got on the bike. Ha!

Indith, poos in pants sound particularly grim. Poos in nappies are bad enough! I think we are going to buy a potty (but not do potty training) as DD1 has started walking into the loo and holding the seat when she does a poo, then going to the sink and miming washing her hands. What a funny little girl.

Off into Oxford today to meet FIL for lunch.

Morning all.

ZJ how sad and difficult for your friends. I think posting on specialised threads on MN is the way to go, but as others have said, maybe a card that simply congratulates them on the birth of a lovely baby would be a nice touch. I can't really imagine what they are going through, but perhaps it might be a bit awful having people say "oh I'm so sorry" all the time, when a child with Downs can lead a healthy, happy, delightful life. But hey, what would I know.

Right, Mr Tumble report. He was utterly delightful. Not only a lovely, very easy to talk to chap but had bought me DVDs for DD, plus did a little video for her on my iPhone which she was ENTRANCED by. Made me show her 17 times (literally) last night.

Not, however, that she deserves it as she is being utterly horrendous this week. Strops constantly, throwing things on the floor (cereal bowls and the like) getting up horrendously early (with you there, Vag..) and then being massively overtired.. vicious circle and I'm not being very patient with her. Even DH - generally a man with patience of particularly tolerant saint - got slightly cross with her this morning. Any idea what might be causing it?! Am slightly at end of tether.

Does also make me wonder why I am so desperate for number 2 - not that there is, alas, anything to report in that direction

Cross posted with LadyT who expressed what I meant to say about your friend's baby much better, ZJ x

Lady, that's much better
Very good advice on the upbeat card too. I felt better for her just reading what you advised to write. Nice work.
On the hol front. yes I had considered going off while dh stayed in the US as it does seem a hell of a lot of back tracking, but I would have to fly sub load on another airline which means sadly no upper class. That was my only reason for going back to LHR first then I could fly with my company all the way. not a chance I'd do it though if it was only 2 days and had to go economy. I don't know.... still unsure. We seem to talk about it and get nowhere. DH says the more he thinks about it, that idea of me just going might be for the best, with just a quick trip to the US before I go. But I'm sure you're all tired of me banging on about holiday drama's when there are bigger issue's about! So I'll shut the heck up about it.
Hope dd2 is ok re the fall off bed. DD has come close! And I did chuckle at dd1's toilet behaviour. That's hilarious! Think I'm going to try and call the HV today to see about ds's 2 year check and the talking thing.
Mr Tumble sounds lovely Kiwi - no mention of the tallywhacker then? Not sure about dd's tantrums, but just to say, ds has been very similar. I'd say it's a phase they all go through at different times. he's been lovely recently, so no doubt she'll come out of it soon. I was at my tit's end when ds is was moster.

Made it to toddlers but drove. How it's literally a mile - not even perhaps.
He enjoyed it, and I drank too much coffee so intended to carry on in the car and do some stuff but needed the loo so badly I had to come home. Good thing as I was able to intercept the dog ripping up the mail.

Kiwi I am glad that Justin lived up to expectations. I guess you didn't sneak a quick look at his lunchbox then? Just for research purposes. That is v cool about the phone vid, T would be super .

Sadly no advice on the strops as we are in tantrumville Arizona here too. I had thought it was all about DS2's arrival but the more I hear about other people the more I realise the terrible twos are just living up to expectation.

WG glad you had a good weekend away despite the poor cuisine, it sounds fab.

ZJ, as ever others have put things far more eloquently than I could. I think something simple and congratulatory at this stage is a good plan, with specific offers of help. I always find it's easiest to take people up on specific things they've suggested rather than a "if you need anything call" more general thing.

Lady we're just looking at options at the mo! But the only thing with flats is that even if they have 3 bedrooms they only tend to have one reception and we'd need an extra for DP's study. Plus if we're all on the one floor it's a lot noisier for working than if he can tuck himself away elsewhere...
But did see a v nice on on Ally Pally Park Rd last night. Hmmm...DP has also been looking at Saffrom Waldon. Any thoughts, Essex ladies?

In other news, DS2 has been total Windy Mc Windybottom which was really getting me down yesterday as it's horrible to see him in so much pain. But I then got out to the park with some friends and felt a bit better. He is really very sweet and I wish my own mindset wasn't so dependent on whether he is screaming or not. Still, it's amazing how much quicker you have to be on it a second time.

ZJ for my two pence worth. Be honest and congratulate them and offer help.

Oh Kiwi Mr Tumble sounds fab and I love the video clip on FB, so sweet.

Vag poor DS, we too have the persistant cough and get fobbed off all the time.

Went out to dinner with my friend last night who lost the baby. Blimey I feel for her. The funeral is Feb1st. It all is just so heart breaking. SHe really is drinking alot which is worrying our little group but not really sure how to handle it. We were quite honest with her last night and said it cant go on forever, but alos it has only been a month. SO hard to know what to do.

Off to NY next Thursday so excited. Have bought the boys DVDs to bribe them with so they dont get to upset when we leave.

ZJ - I think Lady's suggestion for what to write in the card is perfect. Have a look at this birth story. Its a blog entry by a lady who unexpectedly gave birth to a Downs baby. The blog itself is a little too American-upbeat-twee for my liking but I found the birth story very touching. And your friends may eventually find the blog inspiring simply because of the joy the author has found in raising her daughter.

Spot - I was thinking about your moving options. I thought the problem with Brighton has been that your DP feels isolated and removed from friends. Is that not going to be the case in Essex or anywhere that is not his old stomping ground? Why does he think things might be better in Essex? If I were you I would be plugging to stay put or move back to London. Every time you start a new its going to be a big risk. BTW, I got your FB message about picking-up the chair from my SiL. I am sorry I have been so busy I forgot to reply. I am glad DS2 likes the chair. How did you find my SiL? Was she friendly? She is never very friendly to me and it makes me a bit sad sometimes. I think she made an early judgement that I was not her type of person and that was that in her mind. Its sad as I see her a lot at the PiLs and I think she has the potential to be a laugh.

Kiwi - Glad Mr Tumble lived up to his friendly reputation. Re DC2 are you actively trying to conceive? With both of mine I found unprotected sex was not enough but as soon as I got on the case and tracked ovulation (using the sticks) and timed sex and slung my legs in the air for a while afterwards, it happened. It can't be said it was a romantic time but needs must.

Jolly - have you had your blood results back? I hope they don't make you do a 24 hour urine collection. I had to do several due to the pre-eclampsia and they aren't half messy.

Lady - Thanks for asking about the reading meeting. It was a meeting for all new Reception parents so that we could understand how best to help our kids learn to read. I was a bit sorry to see that although there are 30 kids in DD1's class, only 7 parents showed-up. I suspect many could not get time off work but I had made a huge effort as I really want DD1 to know I am engaged with her schooling and that it is important and I care. Although I do need to strike a balance between showing enthusiasm and pushing her. Like you, I could read when I started school. DD1 can't. She can read a few words and she knows all the letters and their phonetic sounds but she gets put off easily and doesn't seem that interested. My instinct is to make a big deal about reading and even to bribe her to practise but I suspect she will be totally put off if she senses that I am pushing. The most important thing is that she eventually learns to love reading It. Must. Not. Become. A. Battle.

Rubes - I would do the Upper Class trip. Yes, you may miss the kids. But would that not be a good test of what it might be like to go back to work? If that is something you are considering then a dry run might be wise. Imagine two sets of 24 hours where you can just watch films and read books and get cheerful without ever being interrupted. Bliss.

zoe - lady is, as ever, spot on with her judgments and being upbeat is a great way to go. feel slightly ashamed that i was way-laid by potential gloom.

spot - if you were where i think you were, YOU WERE ABOUT 2 MINS AWAY FROM MY HOUSE LAST NIGHT. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! and apparently saffron walden is, like st albans, apparently one of the best places to live in the country, according to some social indicators. i second what avo says and COME TO LONDON AND LIVE AROUND THE CORNER FROM ME PLEASE!

kiwi - sorry it's not happening yet. am sure it will. fingers crossed, legs in the air and all that jazz. oh, and try not to punch the people who tell you to relax. i found that pretty hard.

Avo, I did think exactly that yes - so very good point. Perhaps I will. It is a lot of flying but not bad at all in upper dinner and a movie really. After 9/11 when the planes were empty and we all got furloughed we often flew SFO-LHR and back just for dinner, drinks and a movie without stopping since First class didn't have one paying person! DH would still be on leave though which might be a bit silly if we all don't go, but he also agreed that he is terrible with jetlag and terrible with lack of sleep. We once went to a wedding in Australia and he had to go back to the hotel room for a catnap mid reception as he was falling asleep at the table
You go away all the time for work, I really need to toughen up. never thought I'd be like this (I mean this bad) about leaving the kids - should've known though as I had trouble leaving the dog at the kennel on our first couple of trips back home and even emailed them for an update how she was

Spot I was wondering the same as what Avo said about essex or anywhere that isn't where you used to live and how dp would react? Guess he could get to his old friends easier though maybe?
Sorry bout windy baby - do you keep him upright after feeds? I found popping her in the Bjorn for a good 30-60 mins after feeds helped. Obviously not an ideal scenario at 2am though.

Avo Yes we are trying, though recent months slightly scuppered by illness at what we assumed was right time etc. But I've just been given one of those fertility monitor things by a friend so am starting to use that, so that hopefully our timing will be better.

I find it quite stressful and I am very bad at waiting. DD was pretty much instant, and then the pregnancy that ended in MC last year was literally a one-shot-chance, so to speak. So this waiting every month thing is both new and not very nice. Of course I fully appreciate we were very lucky with DD not to have to wait at all, so it's only kind of karma really.. but anyway. Want it NOW. [stamps foot]

Hello peeps,

zoe I do research with families of people with learning disabilities and people with learning disabilities themselves - although I'm no expert on 'breaking the news' and diagnosis. Finding out after birth is very different from ante-natal diagnosis and
I think what ladyT said was absolutely spot on. Although they are bound to be going through conflicting emotions, they have a newborn baby which is a wonderful event.

The down syndrome association should have some good information if you want to read up on the sort of problems that a baby with downs might have - feeding etc, so you can understand more about what they might be going through in special care. And re help, I think meals are an excellent help - the best thing anyone ever brought me when DD was born! Even more useful if they are in one of those throwaway trays so they can just stick it in the freezer till needed.

Lots of white light to your friends. Life for children and adults with downs is much, much improved on what it used to be years ago. Independent living and a job are realistic aspirations for their daughter in the future. Hope she is out of special care soon.

WG Having a doula sounds like a great idea because of your concerns about monitoring etc. Did you settle on any names?

kiwi I felt like that when we were trying for DD. Monitoring your cycle is great as you get a much better idea of what is going on. 'Taking Charge of Your Fertility' is a good read, it gives examples of all your fertile signs etc, including some delightful snaps of cervical mucus!

Jam It is so hard for your friend. It was brave of you to say that the drinking can't continue. Has she been offered any support so she can talk things through?

avo I've done a few of those 24 hour collections in my time! Such a nightmare taking a massive tub of wee out and about. Did you feel unwell? Were you further along? I'm 28 weeks 2 days now.

Thanks for all your nice comments re my crappy health! No word from the hospital so I've just rung to chase them up. The fact they have suggested steriods has just really scared me because they must think there is a realistic chance that the baby will need to come out soon. Anyway, keep those fingers crossed for a storm in a teacup! Maybe no news is good news from the hospital.

JB I had no idea that is what you did? What is your background? How did you get into this work? It's something I would love to do, I did loads of special needs and complex care work and often felt frustrated by not being able to change a lot of care because research didn't exist to cover it. I also felt (and this is based on paeds obviously) that I could get more money for much of the physical and developmental work if I could use research to show the cost effectiveness and positive patient and family outcomes.

jolly - no, have a shortlist of boys' names, but didn't get round to girls' names yet - i think they are easier, though. and i have secret favourites (please don't tell ANYONE, but i like constance/conny and frederick/freddy. unfortunately i got those names from madam's first childminder whose children are called... guess what?)

kiwi - i second "taking charge of your fertility" - great book, although with a strange biased slant against the american medical profession. and those LH ovulation kits never worked for me, claimed i was never ovulating. which was initially worrying, and subsequently ridiculous as of course i was. i know what you mean about getting impatient and wanting it to happen NOW. i tried acupuncture with madam, and who knows whether it was luck, synchronicity, placebo effect, or actually worked, but we got pregnant (and stayed that way after 2 mcs) immediately. it is like doing something to help the process which is actually doing nothing and getting out of the way. apart from the obvious getting the right fluids in the right places at something like the right time, and letting someone shove needles in you. i would seriously recommend it.

Ooh I love Constance, and both Connie and Con as nicknames (too many Chalet School stories, though I draw the line at Len).

I've just ordered the book from amazon, thanks for the recommendation!

ZJ That is quite hard on your friends, especially with the baby still being in SCBU too. I think ladyt's suggestion is fabulous and definately second some practical help eg, cooking/cleaning etc. A friend of mine from church has a little boy who has Down's. He is just adorable,and the same age as DD. It always makes me smile just how completely unjudgemental children are. He has to sign a lot of the time due to hearing problems but to DD he is just her buddy and she nevers sees him as 'different' to any of her other little friends iyswim! Anyway that is a little of the point but they have a new baby and that is definately cause for celebration

rubes Oohh a little mini trip on your own - sounds brilliant! Hope that you get your head around what to do soon.

kiwi I hope it happens for you soon. People always say to forget about it and try and not let it dominate everything and it will happen. Easy to say but not if your getting impatient!

Wg Constance is lovely.

avo Re:DD1's reading. I am a bit of a com petitive mum when it comes to DD's reading, which isn't fair on her really given that she is by far the youngest in the year. I try to 'chill out' about it and not push her but it is hard not to. However, when we are calmand relaxed about it she does much better than I think she can. We went to a 'reading workshop' too. It really sticks in my mind that the teacher said if they aren't interested leave it, or when they've had enough just close the book because pushing them is the quickest way to turn them off wanting to read.

spot Don't move to London move up Norf it's cracking here and then I won't be a billy no mates anymore

I've just skimmed and BUGGER me - KIWI I have that book and you could have HAD it - can you cancel the Amazon order? Reason being - I bought it after 4 months of trying and then it arrived and a week later I had the positive test. I say it was the reason I conceived the following month! The pages have never been turned!