FESH Spa & Creche - Queue-jumpers accepted with open arms

[AlpinePony]

How exciting for a new thread - two FESHspring due shortly!

moo tell me to STFU if you think I'm getting all health visitor on you, but are you feeding every hour because he's crying or because you know he's genuinely hungry? Ditto night times?

If he's feeding every hour it suggests not feeding but snacking and that's an insidious habit to get into, I know because I was you 4 months ago . I found it worse when the kid and I were sat in staring at each other because I didn't dare go out. He got bored and restless, and probably tired and I interpreted it as hunger. And yet if we went out or did something different away from the house he could go cheerfully for 3 hours.

My breakthrough came when I got over my phobia of feeding outside the house. A couple of discreet nursing tops and the first few times going out with someone (mum, Hom) and my shyness was overcome. Costa Coffee are all BF friendly if that helps (they advertise this in the window).

At night: the woman I went to for a sleep and routine class put a stop to me feeding at all hours of the night. Once he is 12lbs he should be able to be fed at 11.30pm and go through with just one feed before, say, 6am. BUT, they need to be able to settle themselves to sleep - it's this inability to self-settle that causes the crying, not necessarily hunger.

If you like I'll bring the 'course notes' with me on Wednesday so you can have a look. They really helped us, and although she reckoned he should be sleeping through by now, we still have a feed around 3.30am but that's fine cos there's two good chunks of sleep either side of that.

Bollox - lost my post!!!

Will try to remember my points:

moo same here, we progressed from two hour feeds today to hourly. So tues I think your comments make sense. We've not been out the house for two days which may have a bearing on things.

Tomorrow we are going out to the yard and then next day we are off to my workplace.

Espressing - need to know when and how to introduce. Isn't it something like feed on the boob for 10mins and then finish feed with espressed stuff. How much to offer in one bottle etc?

MB has NOT SLEPT ALL BLEEDING DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

moo I am way off my pre preggo jeans and even then I thought I was a tad porky then so now I am just a lump. Good job I have no social life cos I have no clothes anyway!

silvia what are you doing to get MB to sleep? How do you go about it?

Ermmmmm, put him in his bouncer......... he ends to normally put himself to sleep....

don't be daft! Christ whatever it takes to get by... I didn't even put Rastus down for a nap for the first 12 weeks, if not longer - I assumed if he was tired he would go to sleep (visions of babies sleeping cutely on playmats having played themselves to exhaustion). My dear, the fractiousness and overtiredness in the evenings!! When I suddenly realised I should be factoring in nap time into the day and enforcing it, I could have drummed my head against the wall in annoyance at my own abject inexperience.

If you are in any way trying to introduce a routine, however flexible, then I would heartily recommend a bed/naptime script and going to sleep in the cot or moses basket in the bedroom. It takes a few days for the routine to stick but life is much easier when it does - set nap times (more or less, I'm never rigid, esp if out and about obviously), set speech, set environment where they are shielded from goings-on in the house. I felt so much more in control of matters once I had this nailed. Not that Rastus always plays ball, but 85% of the time it works well.

I feel like I'm preaching and being know-it-all, I don't mean to, just I've been in yours and moo's situations and am out the other side, and this is what worked for us. Do with it what you will

I think using the Moses during day again will help. I have no idea how to even introduce a routine, Totally winging this Motherhood lark.........

We all are! You don't even have to have a routine if you don't want - some people just let their baybee dictate their own day which is fine if you are able to be that flexible and some people won't draw breath unless GF has said it's ok to do so, which is also fine if you can be that rigid. However there is a happy medium which works on a 12 hour cycle:
7.30am wake and feed
8.30 play
9.00 nap time
10.30 wake and feed
11.30 play
12.30 nap time
14.00 wake and feed
15.00 play
16.00 nap time
17.00 play
18.00 wind-down bath/bedtime routine
18.30 feed
19.30 bed.

Rastus doesn't stick to this schedule because he doesn't sleep for that long at a time, but then there's more play time to make up the time. As long as each feed is a 'full feed' you should be able to go 3-4 hours between feeds. A proper feed = first breast more or less 'emptied' of milk and 'pudding' from the other side. Look for swallowing, and aim for 2 or even 3 let downs from the first side. This should minimise snacking (which can be a sign that your latch is a bit skew-wiff or that MB is only taking what he needs to temporarily satisfy his hunger and lull him into a snooze, whereupon he wakes up/is hungry an hour or two later). Most babies need a good 20-30 mins on first side. There is a 'feeding hour' when all feeds completed in that hour are classed as the one feed.

I don't know whether that is any help. The naps can be in the buggy or car if you are out and about - I often time it so I'm out at nap time if I have to go out - but the best thing of all is to take him up to bed so it become habitual.

Okay I get you. Thing is I am not even sure I know when I am empty or if/when there is let down (could this be when MB fusses and pulls - mainly on the right boob)..... honestly I couldn't sound any dumber if I tried.

I only offer one boob at a feed....

I consider it empty when Rastus stops swallowing when he's sucking, although I unlatch and re-latch him a couple of times before making that call because sometimes he's just playing silly buggers (especially if he's tugging and fussing) and will suck again if prompted. Once that no longer works I burp him and give him 'pudding' - sometimes he'll go at it sometimes he won't.

You will always let down after a couple of initial suckling minutes unless there is something stopping it, e.g. stress. I really feel that as pins and needles and a swelling feeling in both breasts (it happens in both at once). The second letdown I gauge from Rastus's suckling - he will suddenly speed up and start gulping after a period of either slow sucking or inactivity. I don't generally 'feel' the second let down as such, and it usually occurs after about 20 mins or so.

Rastus fussed and faffed on the right boob all the time until I started holding him rugby ball stylee with his head resting on a cushion. All problems were then solved.

Ya I am thinking the fussing is a poss latch thing.

Guess what? MB is ASLEEP. He is. For Now.

He got all colicky when MIL was here earlier - so you can imagine cant you?

a) have you burped him?
b) he's drawing his knees up! Burp him.
c) he's crying - time for a dummy?
d) he's sucking his fist - time for a dummy?
e) his legs and feet are cold - he's cold! (the room is 21 degrees!)

NO HE HAS COLIC ANC IS MASSIVELY OVER TIRED! ARE YOU LISTENING WOMAN!!!

ah the wisdom of the community elders...

Wisewords from Cunty and I 2nd the hourly snacking. Even if it is growth spurt then they should be feeding no more than about every 2 hours (during the spurt) and not every hour as this is a sign of snacking to me.

I found mini Oke could not go longer than about 2 hours before needing a nap, with Peppa it is less. Think of the Baby Whisperer EASY - Eat, Activity, Sleep, You and try and work this around 3 hour cycles. I never let Peppa sleep through a feed time and will wake her to feed.

I can't feel the let down however and I just keep offering until I think she is really satiated. Generally she feeds in about 30 minutes from start to finish with usually a nappy change mid way through to wake. This is quicker than mini C did at this age - he was more like 45 mins.

With regard to the once a night wake up thing clearly I drug her I am lucky at the moment. I feed her about 10.30 which is a bottle of expressed milk (currently I give about 100ml) and also endeavour to put her to bed between 7 and 8 in a quiet and dark room. Sometimes it works sometimes she is awake all evening and gets wired. I have tried the dummy and she loves it but at the moment I am only using this as a last resort. She generally wakes at some point between 3 and 5 for a feed. Last night it was 3 and then again at 6am but I was tired so I kind of ignored her and I woke up again at 7am and she had fallen back to sleep . However, if she is asleep at 7am I will wake her to feed as I need to get up and get mini cokie sorted and also I see this as the start of our day. I know it is tempting to sleep in especially if you have had a shitty night but if you feed at 7am then the rest of the day can start from there IYSWIM.

Cunty ALL of your wisdom is hugely appreciated. Would be brilliant to see these notes on Weds if you don't mind too much.

I think you're right about making sure he is hungry and not just assuming. He's definitely getting more and more alert now, so I need to try and stimulate him a bit more and not just shove my tit in his gob for an easy life so I can watch telly ;). Most of the time he does go 3 hours so I think we judge it right most of the time. However, I am definitely guilty of not feeding for long enough and letting him sleep and then he is hungry 1 or 2 hours later. That's basically what happened at 12.30 last night and then he fed at 3 and 5 as a result... my fault I'm so bleeding tired then.

We do aim to do that wake, feed, activity, sleep order of things a la GF and Baby Whisperer - and make sure he sleeps no later than 1,5 hrs after waking. Most of the time that works, although sometimes I split the feed so he doesn't get fractious. Like before bedtime. And we do the bedtime routine: wake up after nap, feed, nappy, bath, feed and then cuddled to sleep and down.

I think the times you describe are pretty much GF/Baby Whisperer. Do you stick to them quite strictly? Sometimes we manage to stay on track. Sometimes we end up an hour later or earlier if he doesn't sleep, but I try and make sure we've caught up by bedtime so he goes down between 7 and 8. I'm thinking now that later better so he gets his last feed later??

I think he settles ok. I don't run in there at every grizzle and he sleeps in his room in the day mostly and in his moses in our room at night, so he gets when it is sleep time by where he is. I try and keep him downstairs in the day. We do jiggle and rock him to sleep a bit which might not be the best but necessary for a bit when he's not dog tired. He does tend to wake up for a second when you stick him down and I think he's getting better at deciding to stay put but it does take a few goes sometimes. I can't get him to take a dummy, he just gets irritated by it. I wish he would!

I don't get a massively definite let down so it's hard to know if I get what you describe. Although I do get the booby tingles in my arm pit which i guess is the let down? Winding half way through is the way forward I reckon - or nappy change. Otherwise he'd never feed for more than 10 minutes.

I feel like there's something really obvious I'm not doing cos I'm trying so bloody hard and everyone I know seems to be having a much easier time getting their babies to sleep at night! :)

X post okie!

Moo the once a night thing I am sure will not last

I find my let down has become more pronounced the longer I've been feeding for some reason, but yes, tingling is it.

We don't stick to it rigidly as per the routine, we have a broader spectrum of timings but the certainly follow the 'regime' and probably now get within around half an hour of the above most days.

There are two things I find guarantee a "nap". A car ride and a trip in the buggy. I know, I know, it's in all the books - but sometimes we overlook the stuff staring us right in the face.

moo If you do want to persevere with a dummy then it's worth trying a different brand. We have about 10 I think, he'll only use 5 of those and 3 I won't let him have unsupervised because they're actually a touch small (IMO) now and I'm terrified he's going to choke on them. He's gone a couple which are supposed to be age 3-6 months but he HATES them and they look physically bigger than his 6-18 months ones.

I had a wonderful night. Bear went to bed at 7, I went at 8. JB came and got him at 10 for a feed and I slept through (give or take) until 6!

Oh lord we have the beginnings of a crawl . I thought I might have a few months to relax a little before this happened

haha we have that too cunty. Back legs are crawl a-go-go, but the front end is a bit confused and he ends up with his face being buried in the rug and his bum rising further and further in to the air! Is it wrong for BadMummy to laugh at him?

Entirely reasonable I would say

Sooooo is that everyone who has labelled themselves a bad mother at some stage this week now? This mother's guilt thing... if your child is alive, unscathed, not malnourished, not forced into slavery and reasonably warm how can anyone here be a bad mother? At this stage there is no such thing as bad mothering, only trial and error.

Oh I'm pretty happy with what I'm doing with him truth be told. I am comfortable with the way I am doing things - I just occasionally waiver and wonder if there is something I should be doing - e.g., SAHM. But for the best part I have faith in my decisions.

Crawling you say? How exciting... now you need eyes in the back of your head as well as everything else.

We had a good night - back to 2.30 and 5.30 feeds again. however since waking at 7ish he has been very very sleepy and only taken 3 lots of 10 minutes up til now. Really different to normal and as his chest sounds quite mucusy I think he might have a cold virus or something. Rang the HV as they said to keep an eye on him and as long as he's eating something and producing nappies not to worry too much. He has literally been asleep all morning... and here I am willing him to wake up.

She suggested he might just be more efficient as so big, but I don't know, it seems a bit suddenly different to be true. Anyhoo, quiet day here for us I think.

honey What did they tell you about temperature? It was one of the things they drummed in to us, 36.5 - 37.5 = normal, a bit over = stick in a "cool" bath, take clothes off, over 38 = doctor, over 39 = straight to casualty, do not pass go. Do not stop for a Chunky Kitkat. So when Bear's been "sickly" I've taken his temperature and it calms me down a bit. He did get VERY upset though with a bogey that was "stuck" - once I'd manage to excavate it we had smiles again.

It doesn't seem high, although HV didn't mention that on the phone at all from memory. I measured it under his arm after changing nappy (which fortunuately was dirty) and it was 36.1 - presumably normal? He was asleep and just partially stripped off, so I imagine fine. He didn't wake up at all for nappy change and he is asleep again. He fed again for 10 mins at 1 pm and then back to sleep. So at least eating and pooing ok... hopefully just a 24 hour thing and will be back to normal crying and smiling tomorrow. I think I'd be at A&E now if his temperature was high...