The Final Fruition of the Frolicking Forays for the First Time Frolickers

[Spirael]

We came, we saw, we frolicked.

Now our PFB has arrived and we can begin the stressful befuddled guiltridden exhausting wonderful journey of parenthood!

(Or at the very least we can stop bothering the antenatal bunch until they join us!)

Hey All!

So much has gone on, and my bouncy tiger is 24 weeks today - which for some reason feels a really big milestone

Sorry if any of this has been said or responded to already, but I start a post, then actually "post" it a few hours later - I also misplaced my head and only recently found it. Still working on being "normal", although I think that part of me which focused on perfection has been happily replaced ay a mummy who is happy if baby is happy!!!

I'll be blunt to confess I didn't know how consuming depression and anxiety can be.
I never thought less of a sufferer but always though I was lucky that it was "other people" who get it. But depression (like addiction) can sneak into your life, and I don't think/believe you realise its an issue until after it has it's hooks in.

I didn't think I would ever feel so useless as I did when things went down hill from the waters breaking to his being released from hospital the second time when he decided to try out the "blue look".

It took weeks to be able to leave the room (even if someone was in the room with Tom) to go to the bathroom or to make dinner, clean etc - and even then I would suffer from what felt like mild panic attacks - sweating, shortness of breath etc. but over the first few weeks (so when he was around 6 weeks or so) managed to cover them up so could appear normal if anyone was around.

I felt so awful that the worse had almost happened and I had been powerless to stop it (had been next to Tom when it happened) and felt that if I dropped my guard something would happen to "teach me a lesson".

I felt so angry that we had so many visitors (professional and family/friends) and no one had listened to my concerns and help me push for help from Drs or someone - that I hated everyone, and thought if they couldn't help when I was with them then how could I trust them if I left him for a split second.

It was around the end of the second month a HV made to comment about things had probably been failing within the womb that lead to the decline, however we would never know but to focus on the fact he was doing excellent now and was a happy and content baby. This made me review everything, and I knew I had to stop worrying as he was going to start to notice it the older he got.

It wasn't easy, but started to start acting at being normal even when on my own ? which was previously when I was at my worst for anxieties re Tom and anger at the world. It got easier, its no longer an act. I still worry, and still constantly stress over "what if" but I don't let it consume me. Its more regular worries now ? compared to the thoughts and concerns I had then.

I feel guilt about BF and the limited duration he was BF, and then on expressed milk ? One moment I think that he should have been given formula sooner ?the next that he should have been BF longer but I know I done my best at the time, and cling to this when the sadness and guilt tries to take over.

I also know if I had realised sooner - or had someone else noticed I was a mental mess I may have been supported and actually enjoyed the first days rather than trying to enjoy things on the outside but screaming on the inside at all the potential risks any environment could pose.

I thought my feelings were normal given the rocky start. I loved him so much but I wanted him in a hospital so he was looked after and safer then he was with me and could be hooked up to the machines 24/7 - so we would know straight away if there was an issue.

I can't say when I started to feel more normal - there were patches increasing to hours and then days, but it is now much more regular anxieties I experience.

Sorry this is so long - and possibly could be viewed as a bit of a pity party - its not intended like that. I am lucky. I know this. I have my health and we have a wonderful network of friend and family. I have the most beautiful, happy baby, and he is healthy. He has adapted to routines to get him to sleep through the night - I now rarely get woken by him till after 5am, and he doesn't "want" to get up till after 6 am - happily babbles to himself or the mobile in the cot till he is ready for his first fed (which is what he thinks his dad's alarm clock means!!)

We had a shaky start, and it spiralled downwards despite the fact we knew the signs to look out for.

I just think that if someone ?like me? found the need (without realising) to hide all this for so long then sharing can only be a good thing, as hopefully if anyone else is experiencing this or similar they will be able to see they are not alone and seek support rather than hide from it, and then end up suffering longer, feeling worse which then guilty for not feeling "as they should" etc

I think I take more notice from other mums then the government literature as you can relate better - so if my experience can help anyone it has a purpose, and was not just bad luck.

Kurly Tom has reflux. They decided he had a severe case so he was put on Ranitidine and Domerpidone - max dose of both.

I was told to keep him on it till he was weaned as the older baby gets the less the reflux will affect them.

Tom was not a sicky baby, but experienced the pain, brining up mouthfuls of sick mixed with stomach acid - but then swallowing it. Having read just about every article I could find, I now believe he was suffering from day one. (don't you just Love hindsight!!)
This diagnosis was the start of what felt like endless dosages of medicine - 7 dosages spread out day and night. Over the last 5 months, this has been cut down - we are dropping another dose this weekend. It feels like he was on it for ages ? but we did reduce until he had got into a bit of a routine with eating.

Because of the quantity, to accurately measure we use a syringe. It?s so easy giving him the medicine this way, I can't believe all babies prescriptions don't come with a syringe for this purpose.

If anyone wants me more about Tom?s reflux as a comparator - his medicine or symptoms, reducing the medicine dosages etc, I am happy to share - but think this is a long enough post for now!

Bunny hope Will feels better soon xx

Halo - Dummies are great! Tom didn't take one at first but it really comforted his reflux (sucking action apparently) - as we hade been giving bottles thinking he was hungry then wondering why he suddenly started being quite sicky at 10 weeks! Poor boy was over full and had no room left!

MrsW I had good times and bad - hindsight, had I talked to someone sooner, they may have intervene and discussed PND rather than me thinking I'll be ok soon day after day when the waves came in. Not saying you are, but may just feel helpful to share. With regards to the milk - some people have found comfort formula's made colic worse. If you do give it a try, Aptimal do ready made cartons, so you don't have to buy a whole tin, then find its not helping .

Worry Go Lochie knowing he wants to play with the forbidden things! Part of me can't wait till Tom is on the move - the other part wants my baby back as is already in some 9-12 month clothes... he is not even 6 months yet!!

Hi to everyone else!

Oneof8 great to hear from you! And so pleased you're feeling better now. Considering the tough time you both went through, you're doing really really well. Glad that Tom's reflux is getting more and more manageable too. I know what you mean about wanting your tiny baby back - Lochie is such a little boy now, he really doesn't look like a baby anymore which makes me very bittersweetly sad!

MrsW Hope you found my essay helpful! As I said, sometimes its just helpful to let it all spill out on the page again. How are you doing this week? Did you find out about other groups that might suit? DId the HV have any advice re the reflux?

halo I found the dummy a dream as well, it works less well now, or rather Lochie needs other things to help him get to sleep, but I'm glad we started using it! Well done on Hannah's weight gain BTW, thats very impressive!

bunny Hope Will is feeling better now and your nights have calmed down again!

kurly did you try the dreamfeeds and did it help?

Well, we've had a horrible weekend, at around 2.30am on Sun am I started having D&V. I was then bedridden for the next 12 hours, which was not the best for DH on his first Fathers Day! I'm feeling better now, and (touch wood) Lochie hasn't got the bug, but I'd forgotten how completely wiped you feel after that kind of thing. It makes looking after a complete scamp like Lochie a bit of a struggle! Today he worked out that he could cruise from the bookshelf, along the fireguard, and over to the couch...

oneof8 it's lovely to see you back here. Glad you're feeling better now - you and Tom had a tough start and it's great that you're getting to enjoy him now.

worrisome hope you're feeling better soon

William seems to have recovered completely, and we seem to be getting back on track with his sleep. He's still not back to where he was, but last night he only woke twice, and he resettled pretty easily both times.

I had a massive PFB moment on Sunday We went out for breakfast and I'd given Will a bit of the toasted French bread that came with mine to munch on. When we left there was no bread in his hands and a little pile of it on the floor next to his pram so I assumed it was all either eaten or thrown about the place. Will was due a nap so we lay him flat in the pram and started walking and chatting. I then looked into the pram to see Will had produced a massive chunk of bread from inside the footmuff and was proceeding to gnaw on it while lying down. Cue me screaming oh my god stop the pram he's going to choke while trying to prise the bread back out of his mouth With hindsight, I think I may have overreacted, and simply taking the bread off him without the associated screaming fit may have been a more appropriate response

Just a quick stop - but does anyone remember the calculation for weight = X oz milk to give you the minimum quantity they should be drinking (if on formula)?

I know the side of the formula tin is a guide for amount/age and I am not overly worried atm, but Tom is getting really fussy with his milk, so drinking far less.

Last week he started leaving more and more of his milk, so yesterday and I kept a note, and he took around 30 - 31 oz in total.

If is just a temporary thing, then not worried, but if he keeps refusing a large part of his bottle, then I just want to be sure he is taking the minimum amount.

Thanks!

oneof8 is he on solids yet? He will start reducing his milk intake as he eats more proper food. 30 oz sounds like plenty though, and if he seems happy then he's probably just having a less hungry than normal phase.

Not sure about amount of milk for weight - I used it when Will was about 6 days old and that was a long time ago. I think once they're past the newborn phase then there's just a guideline amount rather than being specific to weight (but don't quote me on that) I think the guide is that they should be having approx. 1litre a day up to 6 months, then it'll drop back to at least 600ml a day from 7months (and that includes the dairy in his diet too)

Will's really dropped back on his feeds at the moment, so I think he's getting ready to go from 4 feeds a day to 3, but I have to admit I panicked at first as I didn't realise that they would drop a feed at this stage.

Good news from the bunny household - William only woke once last night I actually had to wake him to get him off to nursery on time......he was not happy about that one

Thanks Bunny - He has Rice with 2 feeds, and a small veg serving and small fruit serving with the last feed.

Its during the day he is losing interest - the first and last bottles are the ones he still nearly finishes/almost finishes 99% of the time.

I guess as an average he is around 900 ml - so not doing to badly. Think I'll try taking out a bottle over the next few days and see how he responds if given 4 bottles of 7 oz, and then the 4 oz top up as a routine. That way he may drink more of the bottle so getting the same amount as he has been taking but will not have constant bottles offered to him every few hours! Think that may have added to his not wanting the bottle!

Agree with bunny, sometimes they do seem to go through less hungry phases. It sounds like he's having a good amount and as long as you're offering it to him when he's hungry then I wouldn't worry.

We had a bit of a bad night last night. Having done three nights of dream feeds and A not going much longer in the night after them, I decided to see what happened if we just left him. More fool me. He woke up at 10.45, 1.30, 4.15, and 6, and - apart from the 6am wake where I just brought him into bed with me - he wouldn't settle without a feed. ARGH! I think that he was struggling with a poo at the 10.45 one, but obviously didn't know that until he got up at 1.30 with a very stinky nappy!

He is 14 weeks now (8.5 corrected) and must weigh at least 11lbs - surely he should be able to manage longer than that? Especially since we've had some nights where he has slept from 7pm-1am, and then from 1.30am-6.30am (that was the best night he's ever had, so he's proved that he CAN!). I haven't tried a dummy or water to settle yet but I think that I need to start being a bit of a stricter mummy. How has everyone else managed it, or have their babies just sorted themselves out in the end? Am I expecting too much of my little man? Ridiculously enough, his "reflux" doesn't seem to be as bad - he's managing to feed quite well in the day at the moment.

Help!

Thank you!

I offer the bottles like clock work! Because of having to push him with feeding at the start as was such a whippet of a child have always worried about him taking enough - and when he started stopping earlier and earlier into a feed I just started offering more bottles to be sure he was taking enough which meant the time between bottles was shrinking. Think this put him off more! Glad he done it whilst I was home rather then when I was working!

Has resulted in so much wasted milk - but at the time I though it would only be a couple of days, so don't mind! Will just offer his normal, and then if needed only increase the top up. Will see how we get on!

Hope everyone else is doing well? xx

Hey Kurly We used a dummy (from around 9-11 weeks I think?) Cant remember exactly when but he didn't take to it immediate. Worked a treat once he got the hang of it - originals were different shaped teats from the bottle so I went out and got some which were similar to the bottle teat shape. Sometimes he just wanted comfort, not feeding. For Tom, dummy has worked fine. Hope this helps? x

oneof8 sorry, didn't mean to insinuate that you would withhold the bottles! There is a lot of wasted milk, unfortunately it's just one of those things! I took a while to get past the initial struggle we had with feeding and it coloured my mindset with Lochie for a long time - I found it very difficult to trust that he would let me know if he was hungry or not. Maybe that's the same for you guys?

kurly I would just feed if he wakes. What ive found is that although Lochie CAN go the whole night, and often does, sometimes he's just more hungry - growth spurt, teething etc. So I've always offered a feed if he wakes and I've not had any problems with him developing a habit of waking for it so far. (Touch wood!). A is still so tiny too, I would just go with the flow - you might find you get more sleep because of it! I would definitely not try to offer water in place of milk yet, he needs the calories b

Well DH has got the bug now, poor thing. So far Lochie seems unscathed so hopefully that will continue! He's started really babbling too - he sounds like hes trying to have a real conversation.

Hee hee obviously I mean Lochie is babbling, not DH!

Hey guys!

Am feeling good this week thanks Worrisome spoke to HV last week about the things that were bothering me and we have arranged for me to go and see the senior MW from the hospital I had R at to discuss the things I was unhappy about after she was born. I'm going today at 2pm, not sure how I'm feeling about it, a little bit nervous I guess but glad that I'm doing it!
I also mentioned to HV that it would be good to have a support group for non-BFing mums and she agreed that it has been mentioned before but nothing has ever come of it so she will look into it. Also she is starting a baby massage class in july so will put me down for that and she gave me the name of some mother and toddler groups to go to and a story time group at the local library so will try to get to some of them over the next few weeks.

As far as Robyn is concerned I think we have turned a bit of a corner over the last week, she is now consistently sleeping 11-5 and then again til usually 8.30/9am so feeling a lot more positive during the day now I'm getting a good sleep at night! She had her first set of jabs yesterday and wasn't too fussed about them but was a bit grumpy by the afternoon! Didn't upset her routine too much which I was worried about so all round happy happy :) Just have her second hip scan next week to get out of the way and hopefully we can ditch the 2nd nappy!!

oneof8 that's exactly what William's doing, although I didn't really appreciate just how little he was taking at some feeds until I switched to mix feeding about a month ago.

My feeding routine is currently feed at 7, 11, 3, and 6:30 and he will really only take either the 11am or the 3pm feed well, never both. He'll often only take 1-2oz at 11, then has water with his lunch at 12, and will then drink 5-6oz at 3pm. So he's having the equivalent of 3 full feeds over the course of a day, just split over 4 feeds. I can't quite get him onto 3 feeds at the moment - I tried over the weekend, but his middle feed and his lunchtime nap clash, so he was waking halfway through his nap demanding milk, then going back to sleep

kurly sorry you've had a bad night but try and remember they all have bad nights occasionally - it might just have been a one off. Not sure whether you should age correct for growth spurts and sleep regressions but they generally have a growth spurt at about 3months, and then there is the dreaded 4 month sleep regression to contend with as well. He could well be more settled tonight though so I wouldn't panic just yet

Does he normally feed to sleep? If so he might be feeling that he can't resettle without a feed even if he's not hungry, in which case breaking the feed to sleep association might help. It's up to you how strict or otherwise you want to be at this stage though - he's still only little and he might settle down to being a good sleeper again in a couple of nights.

I think I managed to cross post with just about everyone then

worrisome lol at the thought of your DH babbling.

mrsw glad you're feeling better. I think getting some decent sleep definitely helps things seem less overwhelming

ha ha - worri - no offense taken, I didn't read it like that, as if anything we have offered him too many bottles and this put him off further as when when I realised how much he is leaving, when over 3 oz, I have offered another bottle a bit later to make up the difference so he was given the same

Although different circumstances, I also do worry about how much he takes and if he is getting enough as wasn't interested in eating at the start - and whether he would be able to communicate this - despite a couple of examples how well he can tell us!

How lovely with Lochie "talking" T has started squawking, followed by giggles - is the cutest!

Thanks bunny - although they are going to all be different, I like being able to compare others experience to T - Its good to know we're on the right path!

Good luck at the meeting MrsW. And hope everything is ok with R's scan next week. Not sure what I didn't read/missed, so will go and have a read. Hope its not serious and your little girl is ok x

hmm - part of that messagfe is missing. It should have also said to Worri "given the same as normal" that it is my bad grammer that looks like I was at you suggested something, but was actually laughing at the regualrity we try to feed him!

Lol oneof8 glad all is well! I think we did a similar thing when Lochie was around 4 months - I convinced myself he was a natural snacked and then realised it was because I'd been giving him food almost every 2 hours!

worrisome and oneof8 I also ended up doing the feeding every couple of hours thing for a while.

After posting yesterday about Will reducing his daytime feeds right down he's just downed 240ml of formula without even coming up for air Maybe he's just got sick of me muttering about pouring money down the drain after each half drunk bottle

Haha bunny Robyn has heard me banging on about wasting milk many a time!!

Oneof8 Robyn has a clicky hip but I'm pretty sure it's all going to be sorted out by her next scan, she's been wearing double nappies since they discovered it! Can't wait for her to get them off!!

Was well impressed when I woke up at 7 this morning to realise I'd not already been up to feed! 8 whole hours kip and yet strangely I feel more tired the more sleep I'm getting!!

mrsw how did Robyn's appointment go? Hope you've managed to ditch the second nappy...although now you might end up having to deal with the full force of a poo explosion

Well, William got better for all of 3 days - then he got another cold and now has conjunctivitis as well! We'd just got used to having 8-10hr stretches of sleep and then he started waking every couple of hours with a blocked nose again. Friday night was the worst - he could only sleep upright, so ended up on my or DH's chest for the duration of the night.

Then he gave us a major scare on Saturday. He slept really badly on Fri night, but seemed happy enough on Sat morning until after his first nap. When he woke up he was just really listless and kept whimpering. After about half an hour he felt really hot so I took his temp, which was 38.9, so we stripped him down to his nappy and gave him some Panadol. He then just went completely floppy and kept dozing off on me while I held him. Took his temp again and it was still climbing, so we decided to ring our version of NHS direct for advice. (I was pretty much ready to drive him to A&E at this point). While DH was on the phone the cheeky monkey woke up, started giggling and went back to crawling around like nothing had ever been wrong. He's been fine since then, so don't know why he was suddenly so poorly, but it certainly sent my blood pressure skyrocketing.

He's got a taste for sleeping in our arms again now, so he's refusing to settle in his cot. Looks like I'm going to be spending this week redoing our sleep training for the 4 millionth time

Hi all
Sorry for the radio silence, has been a crazy few weeks. Can't believe my little girl is one month already, 5 weeks tomorrow! Where does the time go?!

MrsW wow that was a good night, well done! Hope you didn't tempt fate and that the sleep has been good since then.

Hi kurly can't believe your little one is 14 weeks either...seems like yesterday we got our BFPs. I am using a dummy with T, she doesn't seem that fussed by it most of the time but sometimes if she is having a big cry it does calm her. Is he warm enough? I know T wakes up more in the night if she is cold...

Hi to everyone else, sorry for not doing individual posts but T is just waking, little muffin is so hot in this weather!

Hope you are all well

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for all of your reassurance after A's bad night. He's been much better since then, only waking up twice in the night, topping it last night by sleeping from 7.45pm to 4.30am, totally missing his 1am-ish feed, his best effort ever! He also had a two and a half hour nap at lunchtime - it must be the heat. I'm not getting too excited though, as I'm sure it's not going to happen again.

You're right, crazy, Alastair has never liked being cold. In fact, he likes to have more covers on than he should in such hot weather, which is quite difficult to deal with as he won't sleep unless he's properly tucked in. I've managed to wean him off being swaddled though, which makes my nerves a little easier in the heat!

Sorry to hear that William hasn't been very well, bunny - they're such worriers aren't they?

Gotta go, morning nap has ended prematurely...

kurly that's great that A is sleeping so well....hope he's managed to keep it up. William's always liked to be really warm to sleep - not sure if it's because he was a summer baby and just got used to it being at least 27 degrees in our bedroom for the first 3 months of his life or what. He currently sleeps in a long sleeved vest, long sleeved sleep suit, 2.5tog grobag and two blankets.

I had a massive battle with William last night. After waking 6 times on Tues night and me being shattered at work I decided that as he's no longer poorly he's spending the night in his cot, and getting one feed maximum. So he settled off to sleep really well, and I gave him a dream feed before I went to bed at 9pm. He then woke at 11:30, and I spent ages patting, shushing and dummying, which only served to wind him up. I decided that I was going to be strict and as it would be extremely unlikely that he'd be hungry 2.5hrs after a feed I refused to BF him back to sleep. I did decide that if he's genuniely hungry then he'll eat what he's offered, so after he'd been up for an hour, I gave him a bottle of formula......he downed the whole 240mls of it Feel a bit guilty that perhaps he was genuinely hungry after all, although it still took us another hour to get him to settle, but by this point he was wide awake and massively overtired. Thankfully he then stayed asleep until 7am and he seems to be having a decent nap this morning.

So my new plan of action is:

1. Move him onto 2 naps a day (he's been randomly doing 2 some days and 3 on others, and it's the 3 nap days when nights are bad)
2. If he wants a feed in the night he's having formula so I can see how much he's taking
3. If (and this is a big if) we can get him back to only one wake up then I'll start reducing the amount in the bottle to see if he'll eventually go through without a feed.

I anticipate that this plan will take just enough time to work that he'll sleep through the night for about a week, I'll be all smug about how great I am, and then we'll hit the 9 month sleep regression

Bunny Sounds like you're having a right time of it! Do you mean to tell me I'm going to get the whole sleep routine nailed in the next couple of weeks only for it to go back to square one at 4 months!?? Waaaah

But yes, good news, double nappies are off!! Didn't actually notice how many wee leakages we were missing because of them. First day she only had one nappy on and she needed a full change an hour after she got up!!

Sleep wise things seem to be going well, Robyn mainly goes down between half 10 and eleven and sleeps til about 6 or 7. Hoping this will continue for another few weeks and we can start making bed time a little bit earlier once she's sleeping a bit later in the morning!

Robyn is not a fan of the heat at all and was a grumpy little madam on Tuesday (our one sunny day) just as well we live in Scotland really!! However we are going to France in August and I am dreading it as my mum is there just now and informs me it has been as hot as 45 degrees!!! It's not going to be too relaxing with a screaming, hot, mardy baby!! I also got told there was a measles outbreak over there too and that people with children who have not had their MMR are being advised not to travel!!! I am awaiting advice from my HV on that.

So, those of you with older LO's can anyone recommend a reasonably priced stroller that a) lies flat and b) has a good sun shade/parasol?? I really don't want to spend a fortune as it's really just for taking on the plane as I don't want my proper pram/buggy wrecked!