Dec 08 Ladies - Waiting for BabyLady & the usual grumpy tots with stinky bots

[DeidreBarlow]

Hope this is ok...

Lady I think as well as some realistic birth books someone needs to write a book that explains that at some point after the birth you may want to fling your offspring off the nearest bridge. Crikey Moses but I've had enough today. Both boys have been all strange and hyped up. DS1 has been ok but has been pushing a few boundaries, DS2 has drifted between screaming for no apparent reason to screaming because he seems to enjoy it. And both boys have just been barging around the house and full volume this afternoon. At one point DH & had to.shout to speak to each other. Both almost asleep now and I'm Sooooo looking forward to some quiet. I.might actually put some classical music on instead of the Tele. We watched all last weeks masterchefs already so nothing else to watch.

But seriously very true lady. I had a brilliant midwife with DS2 who followed latest research that said that if women are fully informed about the intricate details of birth realistically they are more likely to have the birth they want. She also listened to me and picked up on the fact that I hadn't felt the push urge with DS1 & gave me other techniques which did the trick. They are probably similar to all the hypnobirth opening stuff, but at bit more kind of physical & practical. She also listened to how much I loved G&A and ordered 4 cylinders of it. [:)] the best most helpful books I read on childbirth were ones that had birth stories in them. Nothing flowery or new age just exactly what happened feelings the women felt and all that jazz. Oh & it was helpful knowing all the hormone stuff. Well done to your friend though, the dinner must be really good if they ventured out. She must be shattered.

Spot sorry about bad nights. Im really feeling for you, this morning I went a bit mental at DH as I really needed some sleep as I've been sleeping in.with DS2 alone so DH can get some sleep. He wasn't too bad last.night.but still up a couple of times. Anyway he got the boys up but DS2 didn't want to leave me & screamed. DH took him downstairs but left all the doors between us open then let DS2 scream his way back up the stairs. I gave up on a lie in in the end. However, DH is downstairs making dinner so can't really complain.

We had a little ride out to where the place is that we looked at yesterday. DS1 has swimming lessons right near it so we dropped him off then had a walk around. We now like it even more.

Vaggie, interesting I was just wondering if I should sleep in the spare room with dd so dh can get some sleep as tomorrow is his only day off and he's knackered.

Spot, I hope you are sleeping.
You probably don't remember but when you were here T was playing with a pair of dd's socks. I had been looking for them ever since and tonight I went to get the last () of the lemon biscuits you brought, and at the bottom of the box (which was in the fridge) under the plastic bit I found them! gee I laughed. See he might be always sick but he's very cute putting them in there! dd thinks they are a bit cold though

Took the dc's to the shopping centre. All was fine until I ran out of the raisins i was chain feeding ds to keep him chilled. then dh arrived from the train and ds wanted out of the buggy, and dh let him but i said make sure you make him hold your hand and if he acts up, warn him he's going back in the buggy. Sure enough, he acted up, and a screamathon broke out. Oh well, he will learn [?] won't he? Anyway, we were set to leave at that point anyway, and I quickly shoved a cup of milk in his face as I just wanted it to stop. that was bad wasn't it. as then he didn't want dinner.
Anyway, I'm talking to myself I believe, so bed.

Naughty T. Sorry about that, Rubes .
Been awake all night so far, T screaming for milk but have decided to go hardcore as his body is now just primed to eat at night and not in the day so I don't see how we can reverse it otherwise. But lordy I'm exhausted. DP took T for a fair bit of yesterday but I was so het up I couldn't sleep. Honestly, it's like in the bad old days of PND when I was so anxious that even if I had a chance to sleep I couldn't.
DP was up for doing tonight, but as he can sleep through T's crying with his earplugs and I can't, there didn't seem any point two of us being awake. Not sure how I'm going to keep my eyes open tomorrow though.
Oh, bless him, he's just crying for 'milk' at the too of his voice, has been for 3 hours. Surely he must go to sleep at some point, no?

Rubes, I think if you are out, if a cup of milk kept him more peaceful, an unwanted supper isn't going to matter a jot once in a while.hope you're feeling less grotty. Manage to buy anything?
Oh, and the scar is infected, I think. It is slightly open and pus is coming out (not much) and I felt sick as a dog yesterday. No wonder my glands have been up. Have to get ABs on Monday. Hope it's not serious.

Better night tonight, Veg? Your midwife sounds amazing, I have to say. It's not just the books, it's some of the classes. This couple went to everything going and emerged with the idea that doctors all want to force you to do xy and z and so the girl was terrified when she was taken from the midwife unit when things started to go tits up.

Spot, I know it's grim but better to break the milk pattern now than when you have your next one. I would go off my rocker if DD1 was awake as well as DD2.

Right, still posting hurriedly on phone! Just had no time, what with MIL's visit after I got back from London.

Back to bed in a moment. Ouch, my head is splitting. Think that's the lack of sleep, though.

Love to all

Why oh why do I stay up until midnight then wonder why I'm tired in the morning...

Spot, hope T gave in and not you. Has to be done I'd say. Probably take 3 nights of it though like most things do. He's just screaming because he knows in the past it's got him his milk. He's a persistent little one, but you'll be happier if you can get this sorted before ds2 arrives and I reckon it's the only way.

dh and dd are asleep. DS came in to our room at 6 (went back to taking the gate off again since it's not 5am anymore)
He screams blue murder of a morning at the moment as he wants milk first since his teeth are hurting I'm assuming

Right, breakfast now. (wish I was saying right back to bed like LadyT )

Rubes same here. What did you think of X factor last night?

Lady hope ypu got a fairly decent night sleep.

Spot how was it. Did T eventually fall asleep?

I have a very long question about PND will have a think how to word it and get back to you all later. V worried about my very dear friend.

Ruddy DS2 woke at 5.15 today and yesterday. grr. DH gone for a run. Single parenting Sunday again.

Morning. Spot I hope things got better and he went to sleep. Sounds like he is in a right confusion about eating and night and day. I hope you manage to sort him out. Could you check into a hotel and let dp do tonight? Also when ds used to do waking for milk and screaming the house down I would give him cereal before bed which helped fill him up. Worth a try if he will eat it?
Avo I have to agree with the 5x mortgage thing being very scary. And also would be worried that drastic change in lifestyle not worth it even for a dream house. Would the finance situation improve when both dd's at school or are you likely to get pay rises that would mean mortgage more affordable in a few years? As I think cutting back and watching pennies for the forseeable future would be quite depressing

Oh bugger. The iPad is about to run out of batteries. Ds a bit Ill and me too. I want to go back to bed but lazy dh still in bed. I have updated his facebbok status to "I am a lazy bugger". Haha!

The medical profession fear thing is a problem and a lot of these courses base their anti medical thing on the US obstetrics & gynaecological system, which frankly deserves the reputation (with Australia not far behind) but although there are funding problems in the UK in general the actual experienced doctors are pretty good. There are some issues with some new registrars but usually the midwives ensure they keep in line. Unfortunately though fear has a terrible effect on how things progress so a routine cautionary move to the consultant led unit can completely slow things down. I think in these cases where things haven't gone to plan she needs to first of all focus on how well she's done but def need to be thinking there is a good chance of PND. Unfortunately if she sees a medical intervention delivery as some sort of failure she might see PND in the same light. I think most of all she needs to give herself time to heal and stay at home and enjoy her little family. I know people think baby mooning is indulgent & unnecessary but it def reduces the risk of PND.

Now to you young lady, do you now understand why we wanted you to slow down before your DD2's birth. I can't help feeling all these little post CS complications are a teeny bit to do with you being run.down already. Please take care of yourself for once, I know you care a lot about your friend but you need some TLC yourself. I wish I could send you a masseuse and a beautician to pamper you for a day.

Alreet ladies

I am still in my pyjamas at lucnhtime (again!) and every day I despair at how little I have achieved. But I definitely felt like this last time and it did get heaps better. I am just jumpy as DP has to return to work tomorrow and and I might have to go to London to get my scar checked. I will phone first. I could see my GP around here but I just want my consultant to check it if I am honest. Maybe she will just prescribe ABs for now and see how it goes. It's a bit yucky though and I made the mistake of googling infected incisions and it frightened the life out of me.

ZJ, that is very clever of your DD to know she has done a poo. My DD1 just looks blank if you ask her or says "no", BUT this morning she said "pooh!" and made a 'this is smelly' face so I suppose it's a start

Oh, Trace, I meant to say that I think your niece's name is very pretty.

How are our illies? Kiwi, Beans, Mom, Syb? And Jolly - how is the sickness? OH yes, and DB, how is your Grandad? I guess your parents are back now. Effie hasn't been on for ages, has she gone on hols?

NJAN, glad you had a jolly time with SL. And Summer, I had such a fab parcel from you yesterday It was all lovely, thank you so much.

Avo - the houses. Hmm. Tricky. As others have said, maybe neither place is right though you did mention before that there's a shortage of properties in the category of what you are looking for. I would be sorely tempted by the more expensive house (though I am sure the other one would work out, but if it needs nothing doing to it, is it as good an investment?) With the dearer house, only you and DH can know how much the change of lifestyle would bother you. I worry it gives you in particular less flexibility than is desirable, and it also rests on how you are feeling about a DC3. I love hearing about other people's houses though, so keep telling us. I guess tomorrow's decision by the vendor will narrow things down a bit.

Veg, I liked the watery house, actually, though the other one was of course nice. My friend has hired a full time maternity nurse to live in for a fortnight for his wife, which I think is a really brilliant idea. I bet you are looking forward to your break next week! I so fancy a hol. I tell you what, though a pampering sesh would be ace I would swap it for a few hours of sleep or just to feel more physically and mentally on top of things...But I am putting too much pressure on myself, I know. (Bit hard to escape, though, that, as it is my fundamental personality )

Rubes, I don't think midnight is too bad, don't beat yourself up. It was Saturday night and sometimes one wants to make something of the evening. I didn't watch X Factor last night but I did watch Strictly. How is the shoulder now, a few days on?

Shower time. DP is asleep on the bed. I don't begrudge him the rest but even if I could sleep in the day I couldn't allow myself to do so. I always feel the need to be 'doing'. I wish I didn't.

I'm in my PJs too LadyT. I have come down with some horrid virus. I have totally lost my voice and I am all achey and feverish. I only have myself to blame because I felt it coming on Friday but I still went out both Friday and Saturday nights. And last night we didn't get back until 1.30am. DH has taken the girls to his friends' house for Sunday lunch so I am lying in bed in a silent house with the Observer, MN and some property porn. It is quite a treat really. If only I were feeling well enough to enjoy it.

Lady, I am very worried about your scar. Do you feel feverish at all? If you have any signs of systematic infection (rather than just the wound) then please, please go to an out-of-ours doc ASAP. If its just the wound I suppose its OK to leave it until tomorrow but I worry that rushing to London might be too much for you. Do you really not trust your local GP?

Spot, how did the sleep training go by the end of the night? MrsSleep always said it takes three hours to break a pattern in the under 18 months, and up to 5 nights in the older kids. The key is consistency. I really feel for you. Good luck.

And how are the loud Veggie boys today? Quieter I hope. I love the most recent pic of them on FB, Veg. Your DS2's smile is so cheeky and gorgeous. I like the inside of the most recent flat you linked to Veg, esp the kitchen, but the garden looked a bit small. Are you used to more outside space than that?

Any more poo warnings ZJ? DD2 always denies she has pooed. Even when she sticks. If I smell her and say "Shall we change your nappy?" she always chimes "No thanks" and runs off. On a more impressive not, this morning she said "I uv you mummy" and clasped my head in her hands. It was the sweetest thing.

Effie, are you lurking??? You usually drop-by more. Are you OK?

Lady I'm in my PJ's too - as is dd The shoulder is aching a little more than I thought it would still. dh reckons give it a few more days as it was probably quite badly inflamed but thanks for asking. That scar doesn't sound great so get it checked as soon as you can and onto the AB's

Vaggie dh read your post over my shoulder, and he wanted to be MrRubena and reply He and I both can't stand midwives obviously, so as you can imagine.... Regardless of his thoughts on them and if I never knew him I still think they are a bunch of over rated nurses with chips on their shoulders. Worse than the Qatas check-in staff and that's saying something. However I will bight my tongue.

Jam I'm loving XFactor. I really like Matt, Cher and Rebecca. I think Katie is good too and I like Diva Fever

hello ladies,
superSpotofSuperGreatness I wish I could give you a hug and come round and do a night shift for you. It must be so exhausting for you, not only physically, but emotionally as well, having a LO who is so prone to catching all the bugs going, and whose sleep is dsirupted by his illness After your post the other day where you said you just wanted to walk away, it crossed my mind abut the PND. I know I have a tendancy to freak out and over react err on the side of caution with this topic, but I do just want you to keep a close eye on yourself, and perhaps have a chat with your GP or MW if things don't pick up. I guess your PND with T puts you at a higher risk of Antenatal depression, or PND again, so just be aware. I don't want to sound like the voice of doom and gloom, and I know that pregnancy, lack of sleep, a poorly LO, a subdued dh and a potential house move are plenty reason enough to feel low, but if it persists there are meds that are safe in pregnancy.
Now ladyT. I was the person who thought "I really ought to take this time while X is alseep to have a rest, but I think I'd rather wash the pots/clean the bathroom/catch up with the ironing/change the bedding...", because, as you say about your personality, it's part of me too. But I do look back on my early days and wonder why I didn't just listen to my body. Please try to let yourself off the hook - if only for a few weeks - so you can get on top of this infection and give your body a fighting chance of recovering. Your girls need you well and rested, not efficient! And you said you despair at how little you achieve. Have you read "what Mothers Do"? It says in there that 'even' if 'all' you've done is sit in your PJs and feed/ cuddle your baby, then you have, by the end of that day, fed, nourished, loved, stimulated a little person, who, if you had not done that, would be in a terrible state. So your 'nothing' is actually a huge 'something'. Lesson over.
veggie I love all these properties you're looking at! They all seem enormous inside! Such a lot of space. Have you got any more to see?
jam how's single-mum day going?
I bumped into an old uni friend yesterday at the park, with her 3 children, who told me that her husband had left her - when her youngest was 5 weeks old (he's now 2). So sad and horrid for her, but she's so positive now and says you just find strength you never knew you had - and learn to trust in God for real! It's really stupid, but when we were talking (DH was there too) I felt guilty that my DH hadn't left me!
summer I love that you wrote your DH's status! Hope you and ds are feeling better soon. Is your dh's chest all better now?
It's quite suuny here today so think we're going to go and feed the ducks once P wakes up. Oh I forgot to say - she has a bruise on her cheek and eye and a cut by her eye too - my fault I took the straps off her high chair (to wash) then walked out of the room, leaving her a bowl of grapes to munch on while I got her a drink. Of course, she knocked the bowl off then dived out the high chair to rescue the grapes, whacking her head on the table. Stupid me.
Right. L and her friend have just yelled and woken P up. Grr.
Back soon x

Hi Trace - weird. I was just chipping weetbix off the highchair here. Spot I checked the weight and it's up to 18kg or 3 years so T would still be fine in the clip on high chair. DS eats loads more sitting in his rather than a regular one. Maybe worth a try.

X posted Avo. What's the latest thoughts on the houses after everyone's 2 cents?

Hey Rubes, we are waiting to see what the vendor of the expensive house says tomorrow. DH's parents have offered to help out a bit. So if she accepts our offer we could now afford to buy the house with a mortgage that is 3.35x our joint income. Still a big mortgage but less scary sounding. Do any of you guys have a mortgage that is a similar multiple of your income?

I have been number crunching all morning and if I continue to work 40 hours and we chose the five year fixed rate mortgage I have found, then I reckon we can have a similar quality of life to now but no foreign holidays. DH's parents have a cottage in Pembrokeshire so we would still have a place to go for a break and the kids love it there (although you will all remember how much I love staying with them in Wales, NOT).

My only outstanding worry is private schools. The state secondaries around here are atrocious so I feel I shouldn't shut off the option of privately educating, and I fear this mortgage might do that. Gah.

I should have just given you the short answer: we still have no bloody clue!

That's nice of the in-laws Avo. Is it a gift or loan? Either way it takes the pressure off, although we have just paid back my parents and dh's mum an outstanding loan, and although they were very very small, I hate owing family money. I reckon our mortgage would be about 3x or slightly less, but that is without dh's second job he started so have no idea now. We have the property tenanted though and rental income covers the mortgage so can't really compare I suppose. But then we have other debt so the rest isn't exactly freed up by any stretch.
Well at least tomorrow when they give you a decision it will either be a no or yes and you can then eliminate certain options.
Come on holidays with me and you can fly stand-by and just have to pay the taxes - Standby with kids is not stressful at all !!
Hope you feel better with the illness soon.

Rubes, well, I am not the biggest fan of midwives either, as you know, and you also know I love my consultant-led care with a passion I had a super bunch of midwives looking after me this time, though. Mind you, in the interests of truthfulness they did only dole out the drugs and do my temp and blood pressure and all the other usuals, but I was still massively grateful and they were all kind. Veggie's midwife sounded great but I suppose I do feel that the good ones seem thin on the ground. But I am talking out of my hat really as my experience of them is almost entirely secondhand. Mind you, the one I saw for the home visit the other week did typify the worst of what midwives are for me. To go back to my friend's experience, part of the problem when she was taken up to the ward was that everyone was too busy and overstretched to help her. It was UCH, a place I have never fancied myself for various reasons. Ooh, dish the dirt on the Qatar staff

The scar - well, it's very very slightly open in the middle about a centimere and that is slowly oozing pus. The scar isn't hot anywhere but the one end is feels (though weirdly doesn't look) hard and swollen. I was going to ask your DH's advice but didn't want to prevail on him yet again I don't have other signs of infection (well, thought the nausea all day yesterday was, plus headache and swollen painful glands, but not sure if last two aren't just a function of v little sleep. Oh, and no appetite). I haven't put anything on it - just three showers a day and making sure I dry the area carefully with something clean. Urrrrrrrgh, it makes me feel so manky and I wish it would just disappear.

Avo, I have never actually met my GP round here. DD1's is lovely but he is not mine. I am sure my GP is great but the urge to see an expert, and the expert who knows me v well and did the section is overwhelming. DP is going to Reading tomorrow and I could go with him and sit in the car for a a few hours with the girls (I can't manage the double buggy) and then hop on a train. But it might not come to that. Listen, I have had a mortgage on my tod for 4x my then income. That was fine, actually. I have a mortgage on my flat in London now for several times my income but that is being paid out of savings and other stuff (in fact, there will come a point when I have to get a proper job). Foreign hols, I crave them - though I am entitled to use a writers' retreat in the French countryside for £200, but could confer that privilege to friends like you if I wanted, for £235 per week. It's nr DInard, about 4.5 hrs drive from Calais. I have never used it. It only has two bedrooms and numbers are limited to four people (inc kids). If anyone else fancies it, let me know. I trust you! It may get very very booked up, I dunno. Private schools - Avo, I feel your pain.

Trace, you are right, as per usual. But you know very well what it's like - the little voice in your head saying "I must just do this..." I haven't read that book, no, but heard good things about it. It's so sobering when you hear of people being on their own with kids, isn't it? I was only thinking that (again) last night. Anyway, I am actually going to try to follow your advice and try to let myself off the hook. I had promised myself just to concentrate on kids and house until the New Year, anyway.

Meant to say to Jam - thank you for the lovely card, and you have v nice handwriting.

Spot - how are you, m'dear? Do you listen to much music? I have a reason for asking.

Heard an inspiring thing on the wireless yesterday - an oldish woman backpacking around India and Pakistan on her tod. She was great.

I've actually had pretty positive experiences of midwives. Graham, the midwife who delivered DD2, was amazing. He was supportive and informative and a really calming influence. He had no agenda other than to support me and get the baby out safely. He gave me the confidence to believe I could push without intervention and he was right. My obstetricians on the other hand did nothing to install any confidence in me about my body's own abilities.

I found doctors were a weird mix between being quite dismissive and disinterested while also being quite dictatorial and scaremongering. My midwives were also very supportive when I did need medical intervention the first time round. They didn't push the natural birth line at all. The midwives actually thought to talk me through what was happening while the doctors seemed to forget that the body they were working on had a mind to go with it. The doctors were not evil, both they and the midwives were working towards the best outcome of healthy mother and child, I just felt stressed by the doctors' lack of communication and their cocky assurance that what they were saying was unquestionnably right. What I will say though is that the midwives in the delivery suite were by far the best. IME the midwives that do the pre- and post- natal care are very much second rate.

Lady - I've only just realized you haven't called the GP or anyone about this? DH just read that paragraph and at first said if it was at the end of the scar he'd have said it was an abscess from the stitch knot inside (could be the hard bit) but the opening and the pus etc in the middle doesn't sound great and he's not sure without seeing it. You need to go anywhere as soon as you can really as the longer you leave it the more chance you will end up with a worse infection and could need to get admitted for an IV etc if it gets too deep, but sounds superficial at the moment. If you can't get to see your consultant right away, have anyone look at it that you can see soon.
Is there any way I can help out? If only you drove you could drop the girls here with me if you needed to.... I'll have a think.

Oh and I meant Qantas - oh they are just all a bit chip on shoulder-ish. They think they are really important for some reason.

Oh and I didn't mean to open this midwife vs doctor argument up. I am just generalizing of course. Some are lovely agreed - well I have met 2 total out of about 20 who I'd class as nice. However if you don't opt for an elective C-Section, I'm sure they are ALL lovely.

DS is scared of bubbles (in the bath) and dd giggles if you talk in the same voice as the Tree of Temptation (if you watch Big Brother) Strange kids

Possibly Avo, but it's amazing how much people suddenly respect the surgeon, when medical intervention is the only thing to avoid serious consequences in a natural birth that has gone wrong (as noted on that TV show one born every minute)

Of course doctors have important skills Rubes, but sometimes their approach to labour makes it more likely that those skills will be needed and that is a shame.

You are lovely to offer to help but seriously, you have enough on your plate, bless you. Yes, I agree that I need to get it sorted asap (thank your DH). DP has to leave at 7am to go to Reading, we will get there at 8.30 in the morning traffic (daft as it must only be 30 miles away at the most), and I will ring my consultant's asst. I will have to wait in the car with the girls as I can't even manage the sling or push the buggy. DP is anticipating finishing at 11ish, and then, the consultant will either have faxed me a prescription, or else she will ask me in, in which case, when DP comes out I can hop on the a train to London and he can take the girls home. The area in question is quite small. But when I felt, well, sort of poisoned yesterday I was getting in a panic. Maybe I feel better today cos my body is fighting it off a bit.

Avo, very interested to hear about your experiences. Obviously, some consultants can be bowtie-twizzling idiots with a Zeus complex I came across one or two of those when DH was sick. I guess if we are asked everyone on here we would get a complete cross section of views. I guess it's a case of whoever one feels more confident in the hands of and that is going to vary wildly. If my consultant asked me to put my hand in the fire I would, such is the faith I have in her

Other thing is, all the doctors I know socially are magnificent people for whom I have the greatest respect, and I suppose I expect other ones to be like that too. I had an interesting chat with my consultant about this where she was slagging off a certain element of the anaesthetists she works with. She rates four that she works with in the hospital very very highly, and the others...er...not so, as she says their highhandedness in dealing with vulnerable patients ruins whatever medical brilliance they might have.

It's a topic I find interesting, though. I talk to my sister about this on occasion, (a nursing sister as you know).

Well since I haven't experienced that, I shouldn't comment. I can only think that perhaps they are one step ahead and can foresee and potential problem, whilst the midwife is dithering about with breathing techniques, affirmations, and why not to have an epidural [ducks for cover] If that isn't the case, it's not a good attitude, agreed, but neither is a midwife's crappy attitude towards me, just because I haven't chosen to have my baby the way she thinks I should. They are there to support you in the birth of your child, not to clock off because I won't go all tree huggy and home-birthy like they think I should. Right time for me to step out of this one as I can feel the vein in my forehead expanding. Sorry, possibly just bitter from my own experiences, but I find it quite a coincidence that I've experienced this in 3 different area's of the country. (Devon, London & Surrey) or perhaps it's just me!

Sorry Avo, I sound really wound up. I'm not honestly!
Crossed with you Lady. Oh good. I hope they sort something for you in the morning then At least dp will be free at 11.
dh has to get to Reading at some point before I can get the car back as he has left his bike lock there