lefties 7:compare the tory.com

[HerHonesty]

sorry couldnt think of anything else. gideon in charge of the economy..

I could try again and write that in a less clumsy and opaque style

No Eleison, that's completely clear. That's all the pieces that I've been trying, and failing, to keep in my head at the same time.

I agree with you.

Motion to conference: fixed-term parliaments are an acceptable development given a 60%+ dissolution threshold and a 28-day safety valve following a VONC.

Think that is now my position anyway

does dissolution of govt mesan that govt can re-group with existing MPs after a VONC And dissolution of parliament means calling a General Election?

who are we referring to with 'constraining exec power?'

Sorry, struggling to find time to keep up with this thread (super-interesting!!)

Eleison I agree with what you say too and have just about got this sorted in my head now.

Another question I have is this 10K tax thing - will this be offered only to people on low incomes or will everybody get it? In other words will someone earning 50K get the same tax break as someone earning 12K (on the first 10K obviously)?

Thanks, I don't live in the UK so I don't really know how the personal allowance thing works anymore but wasn't it done away with for people on high incomes?

Lefties (insert numeral): Not Completely ConDemned Yet?

I think the following is true...

Government cannot regroup following a VONC; the whole point of a VONC is that the government falls. However, in current situation 'government' refers to the libcon coalition. So if that government were to fall, it is possible that the Tories would attempt to put together a Tory-only minority administration; technically this would be a different government.

It is basically up to Her Madge (acting on the advice of constitutional experts, who to be fair did very well in the election--coalition interim IMO) to decide which parties or combinations of parties would be best placed to form a gvt after a VONC. But what could not happen is a reinstatement of the libcon coalition in its present form.

'Dissolution' refers only to the dissolution of parliament, leading inexorably to a general election. Government aren't dissolved; they fall.

'Executive: the branch of government responsible for executing plans, actions or laws'. In the UK, this refers to government personnel: there is an important distinction between ruling party MPs who are not on the government payroll and those who are. The latter are part of the executive. So PM, all cabinet and non-cabinet ministers, parliamentary private secretaries, etc.

Don't worry about being confused - UK (Westminster) system is tremendously opaque. The executive/legislature distinction makes much more sense in the US system: President = executive, Congress = legislature. Entirely distinct from each other.

No, the 50% tax rate is still there, I think and personal allowances scrapped (in a phased way) for those earning over £100k

One thing about the 10K personal allowance is that it does nothing for those whose incomes are already below the current personal allowance (around £5k at the moment?) - ie those who most need some help.

[coughs]

if i don't go starting anymore threads about threads (promise) can I be here? I can't promise not to get hot under the collar about things (I do that, and promising not to is shite cause I will fail).

onebat I've been thinking a lot about what you posted yesterday, and yes, contempt is disrespectful and not good, but i think you are pretty contemptuous of libdems no? is it ok, if I don't take it as contemptuous of me and vice versa?

will slink off and start lowly worm thread if needs be, but all the intelligent and interested in politics people are here...

onebat, proles, BIWI, stewie, lenin can't remember who else was really pissed off with me but you too, i NEVER meant to disband or damage this thread, and so i am very sorry if i have?

I am very upset by some of your dismissal about what I see as massive gains on civlibs by the libdems, but so be it? is it ok?

and have any of you checked out sunny hundal on twitter (he of the liberal conspiracy). he has been great.

I thought simon hughes defended the libdems deal robustly on question time too: holding his hands up to the stuff that they couldn't get like trident and defending their position.

further to lots of thinking, and the bloke on HIGNFY who I thought made loads of sense:

what is wrong with the libdems doing everything they can to get some power (to instigate changes)? would any party do otherwise? given the proportion of seats they have they have done incredibly well with the concessions they have achieved and the number of ministerial and cabinet positions imo.

ANY party that got in right now would have to make very very unpopular cuts to public spending immediately, i think both the libdems and labour were wrong on this...things are too fraught and although i hate the meerkats they exist and our debt is mahoosive. better that that cons are tempered in this by the libdems than that they go alone? billy bragg was saying that the shadow of thatch loomed large still in the consciousness of us all (def does here doesn't it?) and that it would be fantastic if the libdems meant that the the right wing of the party really could get cut out of the equation, with the cons moving further towards the centre allowing labour to take the left ground that it has moved so very very far away from in the last 13 years?

that's where i am with it. i think any talk of a prior to election conspiracy sits badly with the massive smearing of clegg that went on once he was acknowledged as a contender after the first debate. I don't condemn him for the race, sex or background (i don't do that to anyone, inc DC) and i am very very happy that there is someone SO internationalist sitting at the heart of cabinet.

that's where I am with it all...hopeful...is that ok?

I think it is linked to the national minimum wage, Pol. So theoretically impossible to earn less than that, unless working part-time in which case income supplemented by benefits. I think that's the theory.

Yes, fair point - but lots of people do work part-time, esp. those with caring responsibilities. I don't have huge objections to the £10k thing so long as WTC, CTC etc continue to be doled out at a generous rate (as they are at the moment in my experience )

I'm not party to any of the earlier arguments bcs have only just joined the thread, but it seems wrong to castigate LibDems in principle for forming coalition with tories: their membership and support are sufficiently diverse to make alliance with either party about as (un)comfortable as alliance with the other. And their commitment to electoral reform and coalition govt was always going to pull them to do a deal whereever they could secure the former.

The bugbear I have with them is that they don't seem to have secured a commitment to electoral reform - only the promise of a ref on AV, which the Labour party itself was offering even before the election results. That means that the one reason I had for voting LibDem has gone in puff of smoke.

I prob should have said 'prop rep', not 'electoral reform' in last post

I have nothing to say I just want to show off my name.

very interesting that the Friedmann article in the Grauniad portrays DC as a liberal.

So, where does that put the DC/Tory?LibDem on the political compass?

If VC seriousl;y puts the boot into the banks alongside planned cuts, I will be very happy

I do like the suggested thread title above..and it's lefties 9 if we wish to carry on and respect numerical convention.

In the OP for it though maybe we could add:

Marking a line in the sand and stepping across it together?

Glad you're here. And I'm back and not going anywhere either.

I have really enjoyed these threads and am learning a huge amount. I have realised how ignorant I am about politics and the machinations of government.

It's also woken up my inner radical, and I'm feeling energised about politics in a way that I haven't since the mid 80s. In those days, I was a lowly advertising executive. Not an especially good place to be if you are a Labour voter! I hated going to dinner parties, in the Thatcher heydays, because I was always picked on for not being a Tory voter. I think, in the end, I just gave up trying to argue my point.

Eleison, do you think that in recent times the LibDems have become a very broad church (mentioned below), but people have confused liberalism with 'left-leaning' in economic terms? I certainly did.

great to see you sophable.

thanks BIWI and highlander and all...

i LOVE the renewed interested in politics...it's exciting at the moment isn't it? will ED run is my biggest question mark (if he doesn't i'm a bit in despair).

yes sophable- despite my despair at the Tory 'victory' I am delighted to see so many lefties and liberals getting back to their roots....