I can't tell you how much I hope the Conservatives win the election.

[AntoinetteOuradi]

Just had to get that off my chest.

Please come and join me if you feel the same, and then I can stop annoying myself (and others) by hijacking the anti-Tory threads.

From the telegraph;

"Crime, we are told by the Home Office, is going down. Maybe. But violent crime, according to the Centre for Crime and Justice, has been going up."

Yes they did, they were that powerful. I was a teenager in the 70's. I remember the 3 day week. Car strikes, miners strikes they were constantly on strike. They made themselves unemployable. England had one of the lowest productivity levels in the world at the time.

Exactly Bruffin - I was a bit younger than a teen but I remember Red Robbo at British Leyland and the constant strikes.

Bruffin when you talk of the Poll tax riots fuelled by the Militant tendency are you thinking of the Trafalgar Sq riot which started due to a bunch of anarchists setting fire to then appartehid ridden South Africsn embassay? Or where you thinking of encoursgement to not pay the damn thing? The protests outside of courts and not letting the ballifs into houses to steal the assests of non payers? I'm rather glad that people stood up and took on Maggie. My rates at the time where £200 prior to the poll tax then my household of 3 adults had to find £1200 A YEAR. My council tax bill in 2010 isstill lower then what my then household was asked to pay that first year of the Poll Tax.

Magenta, you had to find £400 for your CC, as it was based on the individual, so it was not comparable with the rates. The problem was that the Rateable Values hadn't been uprated since 1973, the last general domestic uprating, so whichever way you cut it, what you paid was going to increase substantially, either by increasing the RVs, or the rate poundage.

The only reason IMO and IME that CC was scrapped was that it is easier to slap a tax on a property that doesn't move and for whom ownership/tenancy agreements can be provided, than an individual. Having worked in both CC and CTAX, I know.

Scaryteacher, I realise I didn't have to pay the lodgers Poll tax but out of the household expenses pot my then DP and I had to find £800 opposed to £200.

Where the fuck does this "Tories don't care about the most vulnerable members of society" come from? Seriously - wtf? Do your really think people in your community who "vote blue" will be piling their old folk on to a bonfire come May 7th?

And once again, I have to ask - where exactly do the Labour supporters think the money is going to come from to carry on with this game of cash for all?

I see that you all want to carry on with your hands out - but not ONE of you has been able to say "the money can come from x because y". Gordon has run out of other's people's money to spend. I don't know how more simple it can be made to comprehend!

This Labour administration has killed more manufacturing than the Conservatives did in the 80s. That is a fact.

We have more more than 3 million unemployed right now today - why the fuck aren't people rioting in the streets? I'm as confused as any of you on this point - why the complacency?

The poll tax actually was a fairer tax. Paying per person in a property still makes sense to me. Why should an elderly person living alone in their house, where they have possibly lived for 20 years and have seen the value skyrocket, pay as much as a young family living in the same house?? The rates had to go up, people were protesting mainly the fact they had to pay more, not the system of how they had to pay it

In the 12 years I have been a single parent, I am much more worse off. My wages have gone up but my basic outgoings have spiralled. I used to be able to save, I have spent every penny of my savings and can no longer afford to put anything away. I want to see someone else in power as right now, my life sucks.

EXPATINSCOTLAND Whoever gets into power will have to make massive cuts! I suggest you think about leaving the country, because you'll probably have a better time ina Banana Republic, which is what we will have become, but at least you'll have the sunshine in a real Banana Republic!.

I agree, Lady BlahBlah

scaredoflove: Of course we were protesting about how much we had to pay. My elderly next door neighbour at the time was happy9ish) to pay her £200 a year it was the 100% hike to £400 she objected to!

so you think would be fair for a middle aged man in a 6 bed detached to pay less than a young family with 2 children living in a 2 bed flat?

Just clarifying.

is that to me?

I think it is fairer, council/poll tax pays for local services - refuse collection, education, social services, police etc. A single middle aged man will most probably use less services than two adults with children. The size of the property is irrelevant

So many good posts here (love your name, flockwallpaper).

Skihorse, LOL at putting old folk on the bonfire come May 7th.

Speaking as someone from a family of manufacturers, I can second your point about Labour killing off manufacturing. My father runs a small manufacturing company that flourished magnificently in the mid 80s. On top of everything else that he has had thrown at him since 1997, he was told last week by some government busybody that he has to have all his packaging available in seven European languages in addition to English. They don't have to use this packaging, but they have to be able to tick a box to say that they possess it. This waste is costing him a fortune. Fortunately for him, he can retire in another five years' time (assuming, that is, that his pension is still worth more than peanuts). Labour knows as much about manufacturing as it knows about living in the countryside (namely stuff all).

LadyBB, nice to see you here (even if you don't agree with me).

Well rather than subsidise shipbuilding to save jobs and communities Thatcher allowed everything to move abroad. That was not about the unions and is only one example.

'I was a teenager in the 1980s...' Good for you I was in my 2os, trying to get a job after university, living in a hell hole of a city with no jobs, decaying buildings and thousands on the dole because no jobs existed for the poor sods who were skilled manual labourers.

Labour didn't kill off manufacturing - fact.

Fifitot, have you had daily experience of manufacturing for 30-odd years? If you had, you would know that there is more to it than a refusal to subsidise shipping. You would also have more sympathy for anyone trying to run a manufacturing business under a Labour government that seems hell bent on putting them all out onto the streets (or to work in the service so-called industry - God, what a misnomer that is).

'My children will never afford property, they will all start work with £20k of debt'

Why? Because you feel you're entitled to free higher education?

Where I come from, you have never gotten that, ever, unless you served, were serving or commited yourself to serve in the military, are extremely poor or someone else pays for it.

Other than that, you either take out loans or you work your way through so you pay for both it and your expenses.

And it's not cheap.

But no one blames the government for not handing them a free degree.

Where do people get that? Talk about a sense of entitlement and socialist! Get real!

I've actually lived in several banana republics, b4. Many 'non-doms' do, too, on paper.

Instead of bitching about having to pay tax, because a society with a good infrastructure is just such a hassle, they bitch about blackouts for days on end, lack of a steady supply of clean water, things like that.

I think everyone who moans about taxes should go live in one. For real.

Don't forget the DEET!

expat, I have given my children free reigns to chose the career they want. They have all chosen professions that require a degree bar one, all have chosen teaching for some bizarre reason, the 3 have chosen special needs teaching in particular. I have no sense of entitlement at all. I would have been happy with whatever they had chosen

I am a single working parent that earns less than 20k a year. I do not fund them at all, I can't afford to. They ALL work, even the ones that haven't got to university yet. The one that didn't choose a degree profession, now works fulltime on minimum wage

Are you honestly saying, that because I am not a high earner, my children do not deserve to try and get 1. a profession they would enjoy 2. a profession that actually gives something back to society because I don't have the money???

Personally, I think everyone should be entitled to a free shot at higher ed/further ed/vocational training. At the moment, it seems quite right for people to pay university fees, as so many students shouldn't be there in the first place. I'd be more than happy to pay tax so that everyone gets a free shot at something that they're good at and that they find worthwhile (I would say 'that would make them employable', but given that I don't use my degree I can't in all conscience say that!) - but I would say that the vast majority of students shouldn't be at university at all, and I would object to paying tax for someone with three Ds at A level to study Media and Communications at Nowhere University. The idea that a university degree is a 'right' is ridiculous. And I admit that the Conservatives started this particular rot, little knowing where it would lead...

'Are you honestly saying, that because I am not a high earner, my children do not deserve to try and get 1. a profession they would enjoy 2. a profession that actually gives something back to society because I don't have the money???'

Um, no, because I never wrote that.

I wrote FREE! Free higher education.

So you're telling me, with your level on income, they don't qualify for any grants at all?

Plenty don't where I'm from. It's never been expected or seen as a barrier to getting a higher education.

You work, something the Tories are so adamant everyone does, so why not students, too?, you get loans/grants if you qualify, or you volunteer for military service.

Or you're superstud or supersportsperson and you get a bursary.

Oxford and Cambridge crew teams are full of Yanks there on scholarships.

So don't go twisting my post around because it's weak.

'Personally, I think everyone should be entitled to a free shot at higher ed/further ed/vocational training.'

That's hardly a conservative line of thought. LOL. That's about as socialist as it gets.

Expat - American universities have way more scholarships than UK ones, because we have a tradition of government-funded higher ed and less generous alumni, plus a uni system that is not yet structured around allowing students to work. Things will need to change here.

They get/will get the maximum grant available, they do/will have to work to support themselves and will have £20k of debt at the end of it. I'm not wanting free higher education but would like affordable for everyone higher education

They usually have more scholarships, too, because of the high number of them with athletic teams.

But again, Seth, it is not expected to get a free education.

Even the very poor will get grants and perhaps some scholarships, but a true 'free ride' is quite rare.

It's also much more expected for students to combine work and study.

Beyond a discount at the cinema and other attractions, they don't get breaks, like decreased council tax (well, property tax is usually rolled into your rent) for being a student.

Even with military service, for university courses, a GI grant will usually only cover tuition and fees.

There are some exceptions, such as military academies, vocational education undertaken during active duty and/or medical personnel.

"Thatcher allowed everything to move abroad."

That's funny because she did a deal to bring foreign manufacturers ie; car plants to the UK, how many workers benefitted from that?

Haven't seen Labour supporting the manufacturers lately have you?