Oh hell no- what NC said about WW2

[atlantis]

Yes, it's true i'm a conservative voter at this election.

Yes, it's true I've done a little NC bashing because I don't believe in some of his parties policies and his holier than thou image he's trying to convey.

But hell NO , if this article is true this man had better not come to my local area because if I see him on the street I'll do more than egg him..

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1267921/GENERAL-ELECTION-2010-Nick-Clegg-Nazi-slur-Britain.html

"Nick Clegg has claimed that the British people have ?a more insidious cross to bear? than Germany over the Second World War.
In an astonishing attack on our national pride, the Liberal Democrat leader said we suffered from ?delusions of grandeur? and a ?misplaced sense of superiority? over having defeated the horrors of Nazism.
He said we found it hard to accept that Germany had become a ?vastly more prosperous nation? and that ?we need to be put back in our place?.
His views, outlined in a newspaper article when he was a member of the European Parliament...

The passionately pro-Europe Mr Clegg revealed his views in an article for the Guardian newspaper in 2002.

?Watching Germany rise from its knees after the war and become a vastly more prosperous nation has not been easy on the febrile British psyche,? Mr Clegg wrote, before attacking Britain?s approach to the war.

?All nations have a cross to bear, and none more so than Germany with its memories of Nazism. But the British cross is more insidious still.
?A misplaced sense of superiority, sustained by delusions of grandeur and a tenacious obsession with the last war, is much harder to shake off. We need to be put back in our place.?

I wholeheartedly agree with this;

"Tory MP Nicholas Soames, grandson of wartime leader Sir Winston Churchill, said: ?These views will disgust people the length and breadth of the country. They show that Nick Clegg is unfit to lead his party, let alone the country.
?They are an insult to the memory of Britain?s war dead and to a time when the British public all pulled together for the common good.

'They prove that Mr Clegg shares the European view of Britain rather than the British view.?

I am disgusted. This isn't a case of NC bashing, his views are clear, it's revolting.

Its all about context really isn't it?

"All this came to mind last week when I read of the plight of Mr Puhle and Mr Sawartzki, two Germans employed at Motorola's international call centre in Swindon. They were so upset by the barrage of anti German jokes from their British colleagues - "they used to call us fucking Germans and sing songs about Hitler", said Mr Sawartzki"

How unpatriotic of him not to like British people discriminating against or slagging off other people based on their race.

"How unpatriotic of him not to like British people discriminating against or slagging off other people based on their race. "

Rubbish. He could defend the treatment those men got without slagging off this country or the British people.

i'm sorry, but when i think of my dad i agree with him. my dad's a nice enough man & wouldn't ever treat people like those call centre workers were treated, BUT he is convinced that certain nationalities have a certain 'type' so believes in the whole germans-taking-the beach-towels stereotype.

he also believes that to 'buy british' is best - because british IS best, even if it is more expensive, poorly made and ugly. just by virtue of being a british product it has inherent 'bestness' within it.

he is also a staunch conservative.

whilst i would hate to think that anyone would show disrespect to service men & women, i do think we need to get over the whole 'we're better cos we used to have an empire' attitude.

look at how england v germany is seen as THE rival football event.
look at fawlty towers 'don't mention the war' sketch
look at how often the 'late again' comment is applied to americans
look at many of the stereotypes of other countries & they all rest on an assumption that britain is somehow better than other countries. other countries do this as well, of course, but that still doesn't make it right.

saying that we need to get over loving ourselves cos we won the war (which we didn't do single handedly) is not the same as a lack of respect for the armed forces.

so much of the 'british is best' was govt propaganda after the war, surely we are able to move on from it, in the same way that we moved on from the 1950s housewife.

It is true, that there are other countries more prosperous than the UK, we should acknowledge that, and deal with it.

I think he should be able to discuss this without being handed a white feather.

"look at how england v germany is seen as THE rival football event."

And it's not in Germany? I think you'll find it is seen there exactly the same as here.

"I think he should be able to discuss this without being handed a white feather. "

He's not discussing it, he's being disloyal to the people he claims to represent. Sucking up to his eu chums.

God help us if this man ever comes close to power.

atlantis, stony ground i'm afraid... your disgusted of dailymailland attitude won't wash much here. his comments in context are absolutely fair enough. and my grandfather fought and was wounded in WW2 before you start.

i think you'll find i said 'other countries do this as well'.

saying germany has this attitude so it's ok for us to have it isn't right. if germany jumped off a cliff would you do it too?

he wasn't sucking up to eu friends, he was defending some people who were racially bullied, by pointing out to the bullies that they aren't so great themselves.

i used the example of my dad, but he isn't the only person i know with this attitude, that somehow being british makes you a better person. i have taught scores of teenagers with the same attitude. when you discuss it with them, they have no solid grounds for britain being a 'better' country, except that 'we stopped hitler'. well, yes, AND others, did, and, of course that was the right thing to do at the time, but it doesn't mean we can claim to be better than others forever. nor does talking about this in any way lessen that.

what kickass said.

"and my grandfather fought and was wounded in WW2 before you start. "

Yes and mine died in WW2 and I believe we should honour their sacrifice for the rest of our lives.

It's okay for the British people to have to grovel and apologise for our ancestors, re the slave trade, re the colonies etc, etc, etc, but we mustn't mention that those 'nice' german's started two world wars and killed millions of our ancestors because that would be wrong?

BS

I think his comments are fair to be honest. I honestly cannot see how he is being disrespectful or disloyal to veterans, more a case of "let's move on now".

your utterly and totally simplistic view of the war is not something I subscribe to tbh.

i don't think that pointing out that anti-german sentiment has no place in our society and that britain harking back to empire and winning WW2 as demonstrating some kind of national superiority is unbecoming at best and plain ugly at worst is in any way unreasonable. and proclaiming that it somehow defiles the sacrifice of your ancestors is even uglier.

argh.

this thread is based on an article from the dm. and this conversation is like talking to my dad, who still thinks thatcher was a force for good.

all my teenage angst is flooding back to me.

time to go.

atlantis - i really think you're projecting. I don't think he's dishonouring the sacrifices people made at all.

I think he's talking about the here and now.

Those people in the factory weren't making sacrifices comparable with the ones people made in the 2WW. And they were certainly not honouring the memory of that sacrifice. Sadly, quite the opposite, I feel.

I think Mr Clegg was making the point that casual racism is not honouring the memory of those who fought in the 2WW. And he was making the oft-made point that Germany is enjoyed a post-2WW economic success.

yes - the DM conveniently leaves out that he was speaking up against a racist attack on two men.

"Nick Clegg speaks out against Nazi slurs" - that's more like it.

And also more generally against "the Germans are against us! they can't be trusted!" sort of stuff that you get when people talk about the EU.

Like animula says, the casual racism in the Motorola factory does not honour the memory of those who died in the war, fighting an ugly racist ideology.

The Mail is really going or the jugular with this one, hoping that people of my Dad's generation will be riled up enough not to vote Lib Dem.

However I tend to agree with what he has to say. We are very superior over the Germans. I remember being in a bar watching the game where England beat Germany 5-1, the chants about nazis and winning wars etc drowned out the game. The men were so bloody excited because Germany are our greatest rivals.

Really its a non story, and I cant really see any 'Nazi Slurs on Britain'. I see it as him saying its time to move on, and not let Germany be defined by 2 World Wars which happened along time ago.

It's not stony ground with me sophable.

I think it's a shocking article and says a lot about Nick Clegg.

Thanks for pointing it out atlantis

to be fair, I can't see what's wrong with what he said.

"God help us if this man ever comes close to power."

I think you should go and lie down in a dark room with a nice cup of tea and try to calm yourself down, dear. It's hardly the end of the world!

hahahahaha atlantis and lemonmuffin. what a ridiculous reading of what he actually said. i cringe for you.

lemonmuffin, do you mean the Daily Mail article or anastaisia's link to the original article the Daily Mail doesn't want you to read?

Thanks for the link anastaisia - context is everything.
He is making the point that we should try and take a considered view of the world today and not display prejudices generated by events over 60 years ago.

vesela - the dm article

"mustn't mention that those 'nice' german's started two world wars and killed millions of our ancestors because that would be wrong?"

Noone is saying that you cannot mention it but to allow it to colour your view of Germany and all German people today is ludicrous - would you not laugh at people who judged all British people in the context of involvement with the slave trade?

read the original one then lemonmuffin - don't let the DM do it for you!

There's a point to what he said and you need to take it in context, which of course you won't get from the Daily Mail. Having read the whole article now it makes sense, although to be honest I'm not keen on the phrase 'We need to be put back in our place'. If only he'd known when he wrote that that hacks would be hunting down the slightest transgression a decade or so hence!

I agree with him.

WW2 was then. We are living now. And there is no place for anti-German sentiment.