Britain's pensioners are the poorest in Europe.

[ivanahoe]

Millions of elderly people in Britain are having to choose between eating and heating their homes because the UK's State pension is so low, and what's more the media are sweeping this issue under the carpet.

The basic state pension for single pensioners is just £97. 25 a week, and this is following a 30, 40, and 50 year working life contributing to the system both taxes and NI contribution which were mandatory

The State pension used to increase with British male average earnings, or inflation whichever the higher to protect its value prior to 1979, but when Thatcher took office in 1979, she broke to state pensions link with male average earnings, and the state pension has decreased in value ever since, being linked to inflation, and New Labour have continued Thatcher's pension policy.

Because we British are not generally politically motivated until things happen to ourselves, I wonder how many on this site know about the very serious plight of pensioners in this country ?

'Here's one for the Tories on here.

Should our MP's still be able to do all that they did re- claiming allowances, and other perks from the tax payer, baring in mind an MP's salary is around £64,000 a year ?'

Personally I think they should be subject to the same rules on expenses as the Armed Forces. If they are found to have abused their expenses, then like the Forces they should be court-martialled and lose their job and pension if found guilty. I think they should live like the Forces do in a 'mess', ie: that they should have purpose built accommodation where they each have a bed sitting room with en suite and take their meals together. They should be paid a get you home package like the Forces which covers 3 weekends travel to home per month. They should be charged for their food and any extras like alcohol.

If they have their own home in London, then that is where they live, but they cannot claim for a second home. If they need to rent in their constituency, then they must, like the Forces, pay rent for it, which cannot be claimed back.

What the MPs have done is fraudulent, and I fail to see how I vote would have any effect on how I view fraud, which is that it is theft, plain and simple.

'However, when it is the 'I can't be bothered, let the government provide' that many teenagers come out with, then it needs to be stigmatised and challenged to change the entitlement to benefits culture that exists. '

This sense of entitlement extends, though, to adults who believe that, because they pay taxes and NI on earnings, they are entitled to the state supporting them comfortably enough once they're 60 or so until whenever it is they pass on. Not a top up, but a right to retire as in not work at all.

That is simply not going to be a reality for most of us.

As someone pointed out, it's not a pay in, take out system.

At the same time, however, if we are all going to need to work more, then we need far greater, more well-enforced age discrimination infrustructure.

Many apprenticeships here, for example, don't allow people over 26 or 29 to access them.

So a person in his 30s or 40s, who conceivably has 30-40 years to work, is denied a career change.

Stoopid.

All this 'what about young people?' is going to have to stop.

Young people are just going to have to fend for themselves like everyone else.

dh retires at 53 in just under 4 years time - no choice, that is when the RN makes people of his rank leave.

We have already started the process of sorting through what we are going to do next. At the moment, we may well see what is available in Brussels, as the prospects for a 53 year old in Cornwall (which is home) will be non-existent.

I think he'd like to work til 63, and then retire as he would have a second lump sum/pension in place by then, and ds will be through Uni and self supporting hopefully.

We are starting to get the ducks in a row - the mortgage will be gone, and we will be solvent. I am getting like my gran though - I buy bedding and towels and tuck them away for later. She retired with a wardrobe full for her retirement - this is my excuse for buying shoes and boots!

Riven, did you see that you need to apply for credits towards your pension from April as you are a carer, as HRP is disappearing if your youngest child is 12 or over?

Nope, you're OK. I thought she was older - you have another 7 years then before you need to sort anything out. I didn't want you to lose out through not realising, that was all.

A true blue site?

PMSL,yes I am well known for Tory leanings (WTF?)

Iam not right wiong. I believe in a safety net,that people such as carers and the disabled and elderly should not be automatically poor becuase of fate, social repsonsibility etc.

I also believe in rewarding effort,that those without work should be protected is they aretrying to change their fate.... training,setting up a busines, trying to search for work, or improve their chances by contributing forexample in charity or school work.

I don't see why form filling is an issue if you want to accessthat support. And whilst my idealsare higyh and I could quite happily draw you a case for megetting minimum wage as a carer, I also accept that the country an'tafford it and I could have been alot worse offelsewhere.

Idealsarefab anda guidng light but realism has to jump in thereas well. Realismtells us that there are chancers who take advantage of the system at all levels- and whether they are MP on a dodgy claim or claimant with a secret job /no intention of working, rules and procedures help screen them out.

Oh and St thankis for that tip off, I have a few friends with over 12's whoa are carers and I willspread the word. What is it they need to with RE to formsplease? So I can signpost them.

When Nana died Riven, she had so many towels and so much bedding that were brand new, it just wasn't true.

There were beautiful cotton sheets all tied with ribbon; lovely stripy unused John Lewis tea towels; really good quality towels, so we divvied them up between us. I think it's from here I get my squirrelling away/ full store cupboard/ siege mentality, which was very useful when the snow hit Belgium and I didn't go out for a fortnight. Never knowingly undercatered, that's me, and never less than 24 loo rolls in the house.

Sounds like me ST

I had tolaugh when the snow hit here and everyone was panic buying flour and yeast.... was nice to see people turning into me

Riven, you'll get HRP until she's 12, and if your ds's are over 12 and she dies under 12, then you lose the HRP. I think it's done to get SAHMs back to work.

Peachy, bit long, but this is what it says on the Direct Gov website about changes to the pension scheme from this April.

From 6 April 2010, parents and carers are eligible for new credits to build up State Pension entitlement. You may be eligible for credits if you care for a child under the age of 12, or for a sick or disabled person. Registered foster carers are also eligible.
Credits for parents and carers

You build up State Pension entitlement through the National Insurance system. Many parents and carers do not pay National Insurance contributions, for example when they are not working, or when their earnings are low.

From 6 April 2010, a new system of credits will help parents and carers build up entitlement to a State Pension. Current plans are that from 6 April 2010 you may be eligible for a credit in a given week if one of the following applies:

• you get Child Benefit for a child or children under the age of 12
• you are an approved foster carer

You may also be eligible if you care for a total of 20 hours a week or more, for one or more people:

• who get Attendance Allowance, Constant Attendance Allowance or Disability Living Allowance (the middle or highest rate care component)
• where the need for care is certified by a health or social care professional

The exact conditions for eligibility will be confirmed shortly. If you think you might be eligible for a credit from 6 April 2010, you should check on Directgov nearer the time.

To build up a full year's State Pension entitlement, you will be able to combine credits with National Insurance contributions. This also applies to other types of credits you may be entitled to. Your credits and contributions have to be made in the same tax year for you to combine them in this way.
Home Responsibilities Protection (HRP)

Currently, many people who care for others are eligible for Home Responsibilities Protection (HRP). HRP helps protect your State Pension entitlement for years when you are not working or your earnings are low. If you reach State Pension age after 5 April 2010, HRP is being replaced by the new credits.

HRP works by reducing the number of years when you would otherwise have to build up qualifying years for a State Pension. It is available if you:

• receive Child Benefit for a child under the age of 16
• care for at least 35 hours a week for a sick or disabled person who is getting Attendance Allowance, Disability Living Allowance at the middle or highest rate for personal care, or Constant Attendance Allowance
• get Income Support whilst caring for a sick or disabled person
• are an approved foster carer

The new credits will replace HRP from 6 April 2010. If you have built up years of HRP before 6 April 2010, up to 22 of these years will automatically be converted into credits towards your basic State Pension.

You are not entitled to HRP if you pay a reduced rate of National Insurance (sometimes called the 'small stamp') - but you may be entitled to the new weekly credit, as long as you meet the qualifying conditions.

• Home Responsibilities Protection

Getting the new credits - do you need to take action?

You will not need to apply for your credits if one of the following applies:

• you get Child Benefit for children under the age of 12
• you are receiving Income Support and you are a full time carer

Otherwise, you will have to apply for any credits you may be entitled to. You should aim to do this by the end of the tax year following that when the caring took place, although late applications may be accepted. For example, if you think you may be eligible for credits between 6 April 2010 and 5 April 2011, you should apply for them before 5 April 2012. The new system starts on 6 April 2010, so this is the earliest date when you can get these credits. Details on how to apply for credits will be available on Directgov nearer this time.

If you are a registered foster carer, you will need to apply to Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs. You will need a letter from the local authority or Agency who employs you confirming the period for which you have been registered.

I would be inclined, even if it says it is automatic, to check that the credits are being applied, as things do not always go as smoothly as they should when new legislation is introduced.

Hope that helps.

I don't know that many people are aware of these changes - and I have had nothing through to suggest that I need to start paying voluntary NICs to make up the 5 years I need for a full pension.

Trying to get answers on what rate I should pay as I am in a service family overseas, and therefore if I did work, any social security payments would be to the Belgian govt and not the UK is proving difficult. I had one of those circular conversations with a civil servant who couldn't answer my questions, and couldn't be arsed to find out; 'put it in writing' trying to establish what I needed to pay and how I could do that.

Thanks ST- most people I know whoa re carers don't get IS so it won't be automatic. I shallput the word out.

Mum was one of those only entitled to a tiny part pension becuase she didn't work after we were born (well she did but never for long- undiagnosed AS I am pretty sure, she'd flown as a younger woman but couldn'tdealwith the changes later on IYSWIM). Not a problem- Dad had what he was told was the best pension a mancan get. Before it went upside down, anyway.

Luckily unlike FIL they're not saddled by major debt or anything so the benefits they get combined with Dad's PT work are fine. Bloody unfair though.

Tell as many as possible Peachy - it seems to have snuck in under the radar and although the info is there, you need to look for it.

"If your mum is on the basic state pension of £97.26 per week she is going without something to afford those few luxuries".

I don't know exactly how much my mum gets but I know it is the minimum rate because she has never paid NI. She has spent her entire life either as a housewife or on benefits. I know that she is still classed as being on income support. My mum does not have to pay rent so with the exception of bills all of her pension is disposable income. She does not go without believe me, she treats the family and manages to save for her holidays.

You asked how she knows that her friend can afford to pay the heating bills. Her friend has told her that she can but she was brought up without heating and doesn't want to pay for it now. I don't know how much she receives in pension but I know she receives more than my mum.

My mum has actually said to me that she doesn't understand why pensioners complain so much about their lot as once she reached retirement age she became better off than she had been in years. She said that it is a hell of a lot easier to have a life as a pensioner than it was as a single mum on income support.

thedollshouse, How old is yopur mum if you dont mind me asking ?

dollshouse - same with my ILs and they are on minimal pension as get tax credits. I wonder what happens to people who earn just too much for tax credits. do they have to pay everything in full - as things like council tax must be a nightmare

This info' is from the site of The National Pensioners Convention, read read in full.

///Freeze on part of the state pension increase is ?underhand and shabby?

Britain?s biggest pensioner organisation, the National Pensioners Convention (NPC), has described the Chancellor?s secret plan to freeze next year?s 2.5% increase to parts of the state pension package as ?underhand and shabby?.

It has emerged that the government will not raise the Graduated Pension payments or the State Earnings Related Pension (SERPS) that form part of the state pension package for over 10m people. The freeze is expected to save £350m in 2010/11.

Dot Gibson, NPC general secretary said: ?Pensioners will be absolutely stunned that only part of their state pension is going to rise next year.

This is unprecedented and the fact that the Chancellor never made this clear in his pre-budget statement looks underhand and shabby. Over 2.5m older people already live in poverty and millions more are struggling to meet the rising costs of living.

This decision will certainly push more into financial hardship.

We need a state pension that takes older people out of poverty ? not one that pushes them further into it. It?s simply unfair that the least able are being asked to shoulder the biggest burden of the recession.?

The scale of pensioner poverty is rising - 822 pensioners fell into poverty every day last year. 2.5m older people now live below the official poverty line. Means-tested benefits fail to reach almost 2m of the poorest pensioners.

Around 5m older people who have modest savings of around £10,000 have lost between £10 and £20 a week (up to as much as £1000 a year) as a result of the drop in interest rates.

The latest excess winter death figures show that 37,313 older people died from cold related illnesses last year ? a 50% increase on the previous figure and the highest level of deaths for nearly a decade.

One in three pensioners is estimated to be spending more than 10% of their income on energy bills, placing them in fuel poverty, and the winter fuel allowance now covers just a fifth of the average bill, compared to a third when it was first introduced.

Older people face annual inflation rates around ten times higher than the rest of the population, according to a recent report by the Institute of Fiscal Studies.

Pensioners spend a larger proportion of their income on those items whose prices are rising fastest.

Chancellor?s pre-budget report gives with one hand but takes away from pensioners with the other

Britain?s biggest pensioner organisation, the National Pensioners Convention (NPC), has said the Chancellor?s pre-budget report will bring little Christmas cheer to the country?s 11m older people, because it gives with one hand, but takes away with the other.

The Chancellor?s guarantee to raise the basic state pension by 2.5% next April will give those on a full state pension an annual increase of £124.80 (£2.40 a week), whilst many women with a reduced entitlement will get just £72.80 (£1.40 a week).

But the NPC has calculated that against this proposed increase, millions of older people will actually lose money. For example:

The £60 additional Christmas Bonus paid in 2008 has been removed this year from all pensioners

Pensioners will now face a new 50p a month high speed broadband levy equal to £6 a year, despite the fact that 7 out of 10 have never used the internet

£250m will be taken from residential care services at a time when demand is growing. This could affect around 268,800 older residents who currently receive assistance with their care costs

Free concessionary bus travel at 60 will be taken away from future pensioners, and eligibility will re-align with the rising state pension age

Older consumers will experience double inflation of 6% early next year, because they spend a higher proportion of their income on those items whose prices are rising fastest

The winter fuel allowance has again been frozen at £250 for the under 80s and £400 for the over 80s despite a 50% increase in winter deaths and expected rises in energy bills

As a result, pensioners on a full state pension will see next year?s rise reduced by at least 53% - with the reduction closer to 91% for up to 5m older women who receive a lower state pension.

Dot Gibson, NPC general secretary said: ?Christmas is traditionally a time of peace and goodwill to all ? but the Chancellor has managed to offer millions of pensioners little more than a dose of Scrooge inspired bah humbug.

The pre-budget report gives with one hand ? but then takes away with the other, and does little to tackle rising pensioner poverty, fuel poverty or the impact that the recession is continuing to have on older savers.?

?One in four pensioners still live in poverty and rising costs of food and fuel, combined with record lows in savings returns and underperforming pensions, mean that pensioners continue to suffer a disproportionate increase in the cost of living.

In light of all this, the Chancellor?s promise to raise the state pension next year by £2.40 a week but then take more than half of it back again will bring little cheer to Britain?s pensioners.?

Pensioner facts and figures

The scale of pensioner poverty is rising - 822 pensioners fell into poverty every day last year.

2.5m older people now live below the official poverty line. Means-tested benefits fail to reach almost 2m of the poorest pensioners.

Around 5m older people who have modest savings of around £10,000 have lost between £10 and £20 a week (up to as much as £1000 a year) as a result of the drop in interest rates.

The latest excess winter death figures show that 37,313 older people died from cold related illnesses last year ? a 50% increase on the previous figure and the highest level of deaths for nearly a decade.

One in three pensioners is estimated to be spending more than 10% of their income on energy bills, placing them in fuel poverty, and the winter fuel allowance now covers just a fifth of the average bill, compared to a third when it was first introduced.
Older people face annual inflation rates around ten times higher than the rest of the population, according to a recent report by the Institute of Fiscal Studies.

Pensioners spend a larger proportion of their income on those items whose prices are rising fastest.

Free care announcement recognises failure of current system

Britain?s biggest pensioner organisation, the National Pensioners Convention (NPC), has welcomed today?s announcement in the Queen?s Speech that up to 280,000 older people with severe care needs could receive free personal care at home, but has urged the government to go much further and faster to tackle the crisis that currently surrounds the country?s care system.

The NPC believes that the current social care system is in crisis with serious concerns about the postcode lottery of services and charges, the unfairness of means-testing, the lack of access to care for those with less severe needs and the quality of the services people receive. Currently 75% of local authorities do not provide help to those with more moderate needs and at least 1.5m people have already been denied help because of care rationing.

Dot Gibson, NPC general secretary said: ?Today?s announcement to introduce free personal care for older people in their own home is a recognition that the current means-tested system is unfair and has failed to deliver services to hundreds of thousands of pensioners with care needs.

Free personal care at home would be the first step in the long march towards introducing a National Care Service which we believe should be funded through general taxation and provide good quality services free to all those in need.

But the government needs to be more radical about the changes that are necessary.?

?All those receiving care at home should now get it free, and we must raise the standards of those services, strengthen the regulation of many private care providers, end the unfair postcode lottery of care charges and improve the quality of life for those 500,000 older people in residential care homes.

All parties should now pledge their support to put the welfare of our most vulnerable older people at the top of the political agenda.?///
For more information contact Neil Duncan-Jordan on 07940-357-608

////The poorest in society are not pensioners but disabled poeple who get incapacity benefit. No heating allowance in the winter and very few services. They face a lifetime of poverty because many disabled poeple cannot get a job and therefore cannot save up for old age////

All poverty is relevant, but I came on this site with a posting about the basic state pension being so low, and the fact that the basic state pension is being phased out as the cornerstone of retirement in this country, so everybody, young and unemployed today and disabled people are going to be effected when they are old because as you say they wont have the money to fund a private pension.

Hence the need for a decent state pension for all in this country, which isnt going to happen.