Britain's pensioners are the poorest in Europe.

[ivanahoe]

Millions of elderly people in Britain are having to choose between eating and heating their homes because the UK's State pension is so low, and what's more the media are sweeping this issue under the carpet.

The basic state pension for single pensioners is just £97. 25 a week, and this is following a 30, 40, and 50 year working life contributing to the system both taxes and NI contribution which were mandatory

The State pension used to increase with British male average earnings, or inflation whichever the higher to protect its value prior to 1979, but when Thatcher took office in 1979, she broke to state pensions link with male average earnings, and the state pension has decreased in value ever since, being linked to inflation, and New Labour have continued Thatcher's pension policy.

Because we British are not generally politically motivated until things happen to ourselves, I wonder how many on this site know about the very serious plight of pensioners in this country ?

ivanhoe - i just hope their pensions don't go up in line with my pay - i work for a large multinational company and my increases have been well below inflation for the last few years. I wish my pay went up in line with pension increase!

Again, this is utter naivety, it is no wonder we have the politicians we have with this naivety in the British mindset.

ivanhoe - i wish my pay (i work for a large multinational company) went up with pensions - its been almost zilch for the last few years.

ivanahoe you are not very good at educating people if that is your aim

you are just shouting abuse

try harder

(FWIW my mother is on the basic state pension and has paid virtually nothing into the system)

morningpaper, Im certainly not shouting abuse, and most woman today of your mother's age will probably have spent their lives raising their families.

The New Zealand government recognise mums raising a family as a worth while contribution to their society and so the New Zeand government pay all mum's a state pension equalling 40 per of national average wages irrespective of what those mums have got in the bank, if anything at all.

In Britain, all pensioners receive a state pension worth just 16 per cent of national average wages

Riven, I believe the basic State pension for uk single pernsioners should be at least £250 a week, and a £300-£350 a couple.

Also council tax should be abolished for everybody.

dreamingofsun, What's that got to do with the level of the state pension ?

Riven these top ups involve pensioners having to declare their income and assetts ect.

Or didnt you know that ?

£130 is indeed peanuts compared with the wealth of Britain.

Riven, on the contrary I am explaining myself very well, I would not have put this posting up if I could not explain myself.

It is you who cannot take it on board.

If the state pension was £250 a week, there would be no incentive for the majority of people to bother having their own pension schemes

morningpaper, Im not talking about todays generation, im talking about todays pensioners.

How old are you ?

doubling the pension bill at the moment is a mad idea

we are going to be slashing everything

The pensioners I know do not mind having to declare income to get top ups. rather, theya re grateful they are there.

My parents for one: both pensions collapsed so they don't get any other income,I can aqssure you Ivanhoe that declaring their income is the absolute last worry on their mind.

The simple truth is that we are not able to give everything we want away. As a carer I feel that I desrerve more than an effective 17p an hour, yet I'd have to be delusional tothink the country can afford more ATM.

I have no major issues with means testing. I do think people who could not save for their own pension or have been unluckly enough to lose theirs deserve protection and adequate income.

'Some of you want proof of what I say, well if you want proof, this means you are living with your head in a bubble and therefore in my view "proof" will not convince you.' er no, you are a sensinble person who likes to back things up with evidence in order to make rational decisions based on facts rather than internet posts by someone who could be anyone.

ivanhoe you haven't really thought this through.

Means testing benefits has it's flaws yes, but it's unrealistic to think you can scrap the current means tested system and simply pay every pensioner a basic state pension of more the minimum income guarantee.

How are you going to pay for it?

As we pay NICs irrespective of what our spouses have paid, then on your reckoning a married couple who have each got the maximum numbers of years needed should get £500 per week. Why reduce it for couples? I'd be very pissed off if I didn't get all my entitlement because of what dh has paid.

The HRP all those who claim child benefit get helps towards one's entitlement, although that is changing from April; unless you are a carer, then if your youngest child is under 12 the HRP disappears, and SAHMs will have to pay class 3 voluntary NICs to make up their 30 years needed for the full pension.

I have always paid into pensions, so won't be totally reliant on the stae ones. More to the point, is would these people be in poverty if GB hadn't raided the pension funds, and if all pensioners were taken out of tax, as it doesn't take much pension to be taxed on it.

agree with you riven. ivanhoe - my point was that the pension increases are more than many people who work. I raise a family and work - does that mean i should get both sets of pensions? (

CT abolition is a joke- it has to come from somewhere.

Pensioners and people on the lowest income get CT benefit.Again in a diferent climate I'dargue that it is too tight in its definition of low income, but no more.

I have friends re-locating from Spain because they are taxed far less on their pensions HERE than they are in Spain

Do you disagree with means testing full stop or just for the elderly?

50% of the UK's high-net worth individuals are over the age of 66. 30% are over the age of 75. They don't need £250pw state pension.

And please don't repeat the means testing costs 15 times more thing - just link to the evidence.

(my parents gave their winter fuel allowance to Help the Aged, but really was that the most efficient way of distributing that money? Genuine question.)

Ivanhoe have you looked at the Green PArty'ssuggestion of a Citizen's Income?

There are other ideas out there but they take some sourcing.