Britain's pensioners are the poorest in Europe.

[ivanahoe]

Millions of elderly people in Britain are having to choose between eating and heating their homes because the UK's State pension is so low, and what's more the media are sweeping this issue under the carpet.

The basic state pension for single pensioners is just £97. 25 a week, and this is following a 30, 40, and 50 year working life contributing to the system both taxes and NI contribution which were mandatory

The State pension used to increase with British male average earnings, or inflation whichever the higher to protect its value prior to 1979, but when Thatcher took office in 1979, she broke to state pensions link with male average earnings, and the state pension has decreased in value ever since, being linked to inflation, and New Labour have continued Thatcher's pension policy.

Because we British are not generally politically motivated until things happen to ourselves, I wonder how many on this site know about the very serious plight of pensioners in this country ?

Taxes do go towards maintaining and creating infrastructure. They really do.

And good infrastructure and peace means you get to earn relatively freely.

Believe me, that counts for a LOT.

But somehow many have the notion that that means they have to get something out in cold hard cash.

And if you means test it, they'll moan that poorer people got money and they didn't and it's somehow unfair.

Or that others were more feckless than they so deserve to get nothing. Or are being rewarded for fecklessness.

So capitalism has a lot to answer for.

But you can't have it both ways. You can't have a free market and then expect the state to pay a comfortable income for an ever-increasing percentage of people to be out of work for what could be decades.

I'm sorry but i don't understand your argument expat. people pay NI in part for a pension - so surely its not unreasonable to expect to get something back. this is nothing to do with capitalism - its just the way that pension provision is done i this country

NI payments are for state pension but also for squillions of other benefits including Jobseeker's Allowance and Incapacity Benefit

I pay £2.40 a week NI which is bugger all

Exactly,and the NI alsocovers peoplewho can't pay NI (and no I dont mean scroungers)so the safety net.the disabled etc.

There isn't a stright NI in- NI out process available. There simply cannot be.

morning paper - well you deserve a minimal pension then! i pay more than that an hour

I pay nothing as I am acarer,does that mean I deserve no pension?

Anyway the correct asnwer is no it shouldn't. Even with a decent pension you can't be sure you will ever see a penny (dad'scollpased,, twice,due to someloophole about what happens when your employer is bought by an Amercian company). You can go through life admaent that you will never need the safety net and then be horrendously surprised.

I pay my way to the state by not sending my two disabled kids intocare at £500 - £600 a week cost. Instead Ir eceive £5. a week CA and a satte pension for my efforts (although the CA will be taken out of that and is taxable).

Which is why it is done the way it is.

My mum is on a basic state pension and she has a comfortable lifestyle, two cheap holidays a year and eats out once a week, she also manages to spoil her grandchildren too. We don't have the disposable income to live like that.

My mum has an elderly friend who refuses to heat her home because of the heating bills, she has the money to do so but chooses not to because she is stuck in a 1950's time warp and can't accept that costs have risen.

morning paper - well you deserve a minimal pension then! i pay more than that an hour

I earn around the average wage, so I assume that you therefore think that everyone earning the average wage and below deserves "a minimum pension"?

surely youj pay more than 2.40 a week NI if you are on the average wage? No wonder they are struggling to fund pensions if the average worker is only paying that

Class 2 NICs for self-employed people is £2.40 a week

you also pay Class 4s if you earn over 6k a year profit

I don't work full time however

////My mum is on a basic state pension and she has a comfortable lifestyle, two cheap holidays a year and eats out once a week, she also manages to spoil her grandchildren too. We don't have the disposable income to live like that////

If your mum is on the basic £97. 26p a week, then she is going without something to have those few luxuries.

And her friend is living in the "real" world.

And how do you know she has the money to do so ?

/////No wonder they are struggling to fund pensions if the average worker is only paying that////

How many times do I have to say on this sitre that means testing pensioners is cosing more than a decent state pension.

And that the low state pension is not due to cost, it is because the government are phasing the state pension out.

'No wonder they are struggling to fund pensions if the average worker is only paying that '

that's exactly the point.

there is not going to be enough left to 'deserve^ anything other than what we are already getting: a very, very good safety net, IME, and possibly a bit of a top up, unless we are all willing to pay a hell of a lot more in NI right now.

the system was never designed to support peoples' not working for decades whilst most will also develop increasingly poor health that needs treating.

most of these systems were set up so the pensioner died about 5 years after retiring, not finished at 60 and lived to be 100 playing golf in the sun.

it's not a pleasant prospect, but such is going to be life for most of us.

honestly, the present generation of elderly and perhaps the boomers are going to be the only ones to have a 'retirement' such as we've been conditioned to think of it.

EVERYBODY PLEASE READ THIS AND LET IT SINK IN. HENCE THE CAPITALS.

THE STATE PENSION IS NOT LOW BECAUSE OF COST, BRITAIN REMAINS A VERY WEALTHY COUNTRY.

THE STATE PENSION IS LOW BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT ARE PHASING IT OUT.

MEANS TESTING PENSIONERS IS COSTING EXCESSIVELLY MORE THAN A DECENT INCREASE IN THE STATE PENSION, AT THE LAST COUNT, MEANS TESTING COSTS WERE 15 TIMES MORE.

WHEN IT COMES TO BRITISH GENERAL EXPENDITURE VIA GROSS NATIONAL PRODUCT, WE DO THE FOLLOWING THINGS RATHER WELL IN THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT COSTS.

WE FIGHT FOREIGN WARS. WE UPHOLD ROYALTY.

WE UPHOLD THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES, WHILE THEIR TYRANTS REMAIN BILLIONAIRES

AND WE SEND £40+ MILLION A DAY TO EUROPE.

YET OUR ELDERLY PEOPLE, THE OLDEST OF WHOM FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY, ARE TOLD TO LIVE ON £97 A WEEK, WITH MEANS TESTED HANDOUTS.

What evidence do you have that the Government is phasing out the state pension Ivanhoe; and legally can they do that under EU legislation? AFAIK no act of Parliament has been passed to do this, and I presume they would have to introduce such legislation to phase out the state pension.

Yes, they're raising the retirement ago to 68 eventually, and I won't get my pension until 2032, but I cannot see that it can be phased out before a new compulsory scheme has been introduced.

Furthermore, GB has had ample opportunity when Chancellor to restore the earnings link. He didn't.

but expat who should bear the burden of this payment - thats the question? Should it be people like me who are paying loads already and are saving elsewhere for retirement and trying to save so children don't come out of uni with massive debts or should it be people who are already struggling.

How do you propose that we pay for increasing the state pension? Higher tax or more borrowing?

////How do you propose that we pay for increasing the state pension? Higher tax or more borrowing? ////

Read my capital letter posting again.

ivanhoe

whats your issue with means tested handouts? is it that people have to fill forms in (i'd be happy to do this if i got money - so have no sympthay) or is it that some people don't get it because they earn too much? i don't see why i should have to pay more NI so my rich neighbours can get more pension - they are all loaded. we can't afford for everyone to get loads of money in retirement.

does anyone know what happens if you are just over the cut off point income wise to get your council tax reduced? do you have to pay the full amount as this must be a real bummer for a lot of pensioners

terrific! ivanhoe, why didn't you just say you were BNP?

You will also have noticed that spending has exceeded GDP by 13% this year, so there is no room to raise pensions.

Britain is not a wealthy country at the moment - the public finances are screwed and could tilt at any moment. I worry about the cost of Afghanistan as it my husband and brother who could be made redundant to balance the defence books. I'd like to see us not send all that money to the EU, as I don't see what benefit we get from being in there. We could function perfectly well on the edge as do Switzerland, and Norway.

However, we have to be practical - at the moment we cannot afford a rise in pensions, as NI would have to go up hugely. At the moment, it is already going up again in April as the govt tries to claw back some money, and NI is being used as a form of taxation; it is being raised rather than income tax rates.

Ivanahoe would you eprhaps receivea more willing ear on silversurfer website?

I know they exist as they sent me an invite (rather annoyingly as I was 35!).I went for alook,foundpeoplewhinging that theres no such thing as ADHD ?ASD type things and just badly behaved kids and left sharpish.

You, however, would no doubt fit in a treat?

ST I hope they manage to get away with their jobs,DH didn't and i seriosuly wouldn't wish it on anyone else.

It'll be interesting Peachy - both are serving Officers, and the buzz at the moment is that there will be redundancies with either no redundancy pay, or the statutory minimum. We would have a cushion in that dh would be entitled to his lump sum and pension; but it would play havoc with my financial planning.

Also Peachy, make sure you have applied to get credits towards your pension if your dcs are over 12, as HRP disappears for those who have kids over 12 unless they are carers from this April. Same goes for Riven I don't think many people realise the changes that are coming in.

Thanks ST,oldest is 10 but I will check allthe apperwork in place.

My friend was amderedundant when he was serving in the Gulf at the end of the last conflict, it seemed so wrong. He wasleft completely high and dry- sufefering from PTSD and without access to any interested help or support,penniless and homeless (he was a driver but they lost his livence and he had toretake the test!).

I do hope he is OK.