Britain's pensioners are the poorest in Europe.

[ivanahoe]

Millions of elderly people in Britain are having to choose between eating and heating their homes because the UK's State pension is so low, and what's more the media are sweeping this issue under the carpet.

The basic state pension for single pensioners is just £97. 25 a week, and this is following a 30, 40, and 50 year working life contributing to the system both taxes and NI contribution which were mandatory

The State pension used to increase with British male average earnings, or inflation whichever the higher to protect its value prior to 1979, but when Thatcher took office in 1979, she broke to state pensions link with male average earnings, and the state pension has decreased in value ever since, being linked to inflation, and New Labour have continued Thatcher's pension policy.

Because we British are not generally politically motivated until things happen to ourselves, I wonder how many on this site know about the very serious plight of pensioners in this country ?

ivanahoe do you actually know any pensioners and how much money they have coming in?????

I asked this before and you ignored me.

as riven also said earlier my mum is 82 and has more money coming in now than she's had all her life.

so can you answer me, what are you basing all your so called knowledge on???

or will you just ignore this question again?

ssd, I apologise for not answering your question, but every pensioners situation is different.

The basic state pension for single pensioners is £97.26 per week, it needs increasing to at least what The National Pensioners Convention are calling for, ie, around £165 a week per single pensioners.

But I believe it should be increased to £250 a week at least for single pensioners, with a relevant increase for couples.

Does that answer your question ?

My mother gets about £1.50 too much to qualify for pension credit, so doesn't get access to a whole range of stuff that is linked to the credit. Like Warm Front grants. Yet she is still paying a mortgage (and will be until she drops dead, thanks to an unfortunate chain of events including divorce and redundancy and a deal with the mortgage company that they get the house once she pops her clogs. She doesn't have to pay it off, just the interest, and they get the equity on a crumbling house she can't afford to repair). Her outgoings haven't gone down at all just because she's 64, so she's still working. God knows what will happen if she ever gets too old and knackered to hold down a job.

edam, and this is because of "means testing".

Your mother has £1,50 too much in savings I pressume, she is £1.50 over the Pensions Credit entitlement for extra help.

Am I right ?

I think her couple of tiny occupational pensions add up to £1.50 a month/week over the limit for pensions credit. But I could be wrong. She does have 'savings' but actually it is compensation she was awarded for builders fucking up her house very badly indeed, and is intended to repair the ruddy house to a state fit for human habitation. Only she's too tired and knackered and traumatised by the evil (abusive and intimidating) builder to actually organise it. And scared to spend the money in case she needs it for emergencies (like the boiler breaking down).

My sister and I keep saying we should sort it out for her, but she is so bloody awkward it is impossible.

But this happens in all areas of the benefit system. We, for example, are only couple of quid a week over the threshold for help with CT and rent, so we have to pay full. It's pretty tough because Rent and council tax make up a fair chunk of our money, but that's the way it is. There has to be a cut off somewhere. THere is already a sliding scale operational, but there has to be a point where you say, enough.

Yes it's difficult for those just the other side of the line, but that doesn't mean that the line shouldn't be there. You can't just throw money at people indiscriminately based on just their age. That's madness. And, tbh, my OH worked in his last job for 10 years and wasn't bringing home any more than £165 a week, yes we got WFTC. but that's because there are 7 of us , and even with that we were less than £10 a month over the cutoff for HB and CTC.

Poverty in general is the problem, not just pensions. There are many people in far worse situations in this country than your average pensioner, and they don't get winter fuel payments, free bus passes and whatever else is out there.

I don't see the issue with means testing, Ivanhoe. It is very simple. The government say you require x to live on. You fill in a form that tells them what you live on. They compare that figure with the one they have determined is a living income, and they make up the balance.

It is a shame that people like edam's mum don't qualify for the additional benefit passporting, but that is not the fault of means testing for the pension credit.

I personally am truly grateful for this thread. I think that IVANHOE is barking, to be honest, but it made me google the Pension Credit Guarantee out of nosiness.

I then realised that my DF will qualify in a couple of month's time. My Dad has been out of work with no income for 4 years. He was bullied at work, went into depression, was given incapacity benefit but then they stopped it claiming he was fit for work. He couldn't even face signing on. Still very depressed. He and my DM have had only my Mum's DLA (Low rate care & mobility) to survive on for all this time.

DH and I are on a low income (under £15k salary for DH, I'm SAHM with 3 under 4 and one is disabled) and have been supporting them financially. Obviously hard to do, but we love them. Their dignity is stolen from them. Dad is not fit to work, but not eligible for sick benefits because he failed the medical. He won't sign on because he is honest, not fit for work, and can't face the trips to the jobcentre.

In two month's time, they will suddenly be entitled to PCG, of almost £200 per week, and their mortgage interest paid. Sadly it is too late for them to save their house. With the fact that my uncle has paid the mortgage to stop them being repossessed, and so they owe him that, and the mounting water bills, etc. (we just can't pay everything), they will need to sell to release equity. We will all relocate to Scotland so that they can clear their debts and be mortgage free.

But then, they will have a secure income, and you can't sniff at £900 per month with no housing costs or council tax. Not the life of Riley, but certainly a decent standard of living.

///The government say you require x to live on.////

And this is the arrogance of it.

lou031205, your posting typifies our weakest link in Britain, ie "being satisfied".

If this system was operating in Europe there would be protest from its populas on mass.

And this is the vital difference between the British largely, and the Europeans.

We have an acceptance culture in Britain that is giving us the politicians we have, because we largely dont care about the system, as long as "we" are okay.

Factually the British basic state pension is a national disgrace, and the council tax in it's present form should not exist, they dont have it in Europe, so why have we. ?

Vital Services across the EU are funded through direct taxation at much higher levels than in Britain.

They do have council tax in Europe. It's just usually a lot lower than here.

And how can you be such a propent of the European system of pensions when you're against British participation in the EU (as evinced by your posts about its being a waste of UK government monies).

////expatinscotland
They do have council tax in Europe. It's just usually a lot lower than here///

What thery have in Europe is a fair tax system.

Council tax in Britain is not based on ability to pay, therefore it is an unjust tax.

In Britain the rich pay much less in income tax and council tax in proportion to income than the poor.

They do not have our unjust and highly disproportionate tax system in Western Europe.

edam, If your mum wasnt entitled to Pensions Credit, it means extra monies she has, took her over the means test threshold for help.

yeah, that 'extra money' is in fact a payment because the crappy builders fucked up the house so badly. It is not savings, it is intended to put the house right. Only she's in such a state she can't organise herself to do it, and is terrified of letting builders in. Meanwhile she has a house that is falling down around her ears and costs a ridiculous amount to heat, thanks to the damp.

(Believe me, I would love to sort this out for her but she is ruddy awkward and makes it v. difficult.)

edam, did your mum get help filling out the form? One of the items is 'money paid to you to carry out essential repairs to your home', and it is in the 'ignored income' section. Even if she won't let you sort the main issue, you could perhaps help her to reapply for the credit?

IVANAHOE - "Council tax in Britain is not based on ability to pay, therefore it is an unjust tax." Yes it is. There is council tax benefit.

Council tax benefit follows a means test if that person is deemed unable to afford council tax, so how can council tax be based on ability to pay ??????????

"Council tax benefit follows a means test if that person is deemed unable to afford council tax, so how can council tax be based on ability to pay ??????????"

Firstly, you get a credit towards your Council Tax bill if you are unable to pay it, assessed by means-testing.

Secondly, Pension Credit Guarantee is a passport benefit. If you get PCG you automatically get full Council Tax Benefit.

One of your main arguments is that means-testing costs money. The Govt avoid excessive spending by only means-testing those who say they cannot afford the Council Tax. Everyone else is deemed able to pay.

ivanahoe, as we have had 268 posts on this now, and you are largely being disagreed with, do you think that maybe you might have got things a little out of perspective?

ivanahoe - if you are suggesting that higher income equates to ability to pay you are wrong. we earn the most in our close, yet are the poorest. all our retired neighbours are loaded and don't have to pay for childcare, pension funds, mortgages, school bus fares etc etc

Lou, thank you, that's incredibly helpful! Think my sister went through a website with her that takes you through whether you are entitled to anything, but maybe that point wasn't covered? If she knows she can spend that money on the house, maybe she'll finally let us organise it. Would be wonderful!

But generally on this thread it's depressing to see that the worst off are arguing over the scraps, instead of going after those who are making off with roast and all the trimmings. Why aren't we arguing about pinning down rich tax-dodgers like 'Lord' Ashcroft, for instance? (If he wants to make our laws and fund our political parties, he can damn well pay UK tax.)

edam I hope so

edam

now pinning down rich tax dodgers sounds an excellent idea. shame the labour gov could't think of that one instead of hitting the middle earners all the time

'But generally on this thread it's depressing to see that the worst off are arguing over the scraps, instead of going after those who are making off with roast and all the trimmings. Why aren't we arguing about pinning down rich tax-dodgers like 'Lord' Ashcroft, for instance? (If he wants to make our laws and fund our political parties, he can damn well pay UK tax.)'

Because if Labour never went after the likes of him, you just know the Tories won't if they get in.

edam,

///////But generally on this thread it's depressing to see that the worst off are arguing over the scraps, instead of going after those who are making off with roast and all the trimmings. Why aren't we arguing about pinning down rich tax-dodgers like 'Lord' Ashcroft, for instance? (If he wants to make our laws and fund our political parties, he can damn well pay UK tax.)//////

But isnt this the British all over.

quite, expat. Don't know of many other Western democracies who allow foreigners who don't pay taxes to sit in their legislature.