Contradiction between 3 days of supplies v defence spending

[Scuttlingupabove]

It's all a bit weird. We are now supposed to have 3 days of provisions in case "something" happens. The Government has told us to. The German government has given a comprehensive list to the German population for supplies per capita but they have said for 10 days.

And yet there's no corresponding rise in UK defence spending and nothing has been done on an urgent basis. Despite the former Defence Secretary resigning because we aren't defended adequately. Whereas European defence spending is increasing massively in many countries. We haven't secured our borders either even though we are aware that Russian subs are hovering over our sea cables.

If we are being told we need to survive on our own, potentially presumably this is due to an attack of some sort. So why aren't we rearming quickly so we try and deter this attack from happening?

This does seem very disconnected thinking. We always assume governments know what they are doing but I'm not confident this one does.

They better not turn up in a rubber boat. That would get the church bells ringing, calling the Tommy Ten Names army to arms. That is, chucking empty Stella cans at them.

Not really. We are pretty self reliant here. But as I said, thats not the point of this thread.

You are right. I think that well sums up the country and its defences currently.

Which I think our enemies know. Lets hope John Healey decides social security cant come at the expense of national security.

I looked. And I saw the telegraph article, repeated all over. That a smuggling gang had said.... not the government.

You do know the Military don't do border control ?

Anyway, I did a post earlier that you said was too long. I laid out the change in warfare, and how that effects things. I also said I doubt the UK military is strong enough to defend the Falklands. And it needs fixing.

And I asked you what you think the UK should be spending it's military budget on. The extra money I mean, if it was bigger.

More tanks, missiles, ships ? What do you think we need ?

Personally, I would like to see the 6 type 45 destroyers we have in proper rotation. That is 2 at sea, 2 in training/advanced readiness, and 2 in maintenance. But when it came down to it, with Cyprus, we struggled to get one underway. Or at least an extra one underway. Because one might be at the Falklands already, or deployment.

Because after years of complacency and "it won't happen here" attitudes, and as we enter the worst El Nino for 1000 years after a summer and autumn of widespread droughts, and climate change emergencies escalating alongside cyber attacks on Western countries infrastructure...

The Government finally tried to tell us to Be Prepared for 3 days of self sufficiency in case of any emergencies while the authorities can get rescues or restored service in place.

It's a very small and logical ask.

Sadly, this has whipped up the paranoid, the anxious and the gutter press into a frenzy. It's all a stupid reaction to a sensible plan.

Haven’t you noticed ? We are being invaded as we speak.
The government is not at all concerned about you being prepared for anything. They are concerned about distracting your attention and keeping you scared that something terrible is about to happen. A population that is frightened is much easier to control than one that is confident. Just look how much they got away with during covid.
The really worrying thing about all this is of course that we have a lot to be worried about. Just not the things the government wants us to focus on.
Virtually everyone has three days of food already in their cupboards, most people will have some scented candles somewhere, and a few extra blankets. We will all survive a few days with no power.
Forget about the wind up radio. If the apocalypse comes, the last thing we will need is a running commentary.

As I said, clearly neither you or I are expert in miltary procurement and we can only rely on the views of the heads of the military who say we need far more spending and far more urgency and far less creative accounting

I suggest you didnt read the article properly or looked at the sources if that's your take. But obviously if you have a fixed view on the desirability of immigration illegal or otherwise you probably wouldnt want to look at any suggestion the immigrants might not 100% have the UKs best interests at heart. IMO of course only.

So what do you think extra money needs to be spent on ?

Why are you dismissing me as "not an expert"? We all have different levels of knowledge on different things. So how have you managed to work out I know nowt about military ?

What are your credentials regarding military procurement expertise? Apologies if you are a professional in this area. Glad you agree with me we should be getting more stuff to defend the country though.

You keep asking me what I think money should be spent on. That's the third time you've asked. May I refer you to my previous replies, Alan?

Your previous posts are about an invasion on small boats.

Why do I need credentials in military procurement to have an interest, and an opinion ? You have stated you are not an expert on it, but you started a thread on it.

Here is an example of something I know. Octric Semiconductor. In the North East of England. Starmer nationalized it. Or maybe it was the Tories. You must approve of that ? 200 million GBP.

UK Ministry of Defence invest £200 Million in Otric Semiconductor - Electronics Manufacturing News (globalsmt.net)

Or do I need credentials to discuss such stuff ?

And did you see the news this last week that Iran claims to have used limpet mines, deployed from small boats in the SoH ? Have you spent any time thinking of how such a threat can be countered ? I did.

Should these discussions not be a bit like football, where anyone can discuss it ? Or do you think only professional footballers should be able to ?

@Scuttlingupabove does your DH know you are on social media prattling on about having useful guns and stocking up on cartridges? I assume he knows that certificates are under constant review.

So far OP has tried to scare us with -

Russia,
Solar flares
Nuclear attack
An attack 'of some kind'
Nuclear debris
Cyber attack
Bombs that can travel more than 21 miles
Iranian operatives
A wargame where we last less than a week
'legal warfare against our own troops'?
A natural disaster
Ebola

Drones
A basic attack on power plants
People who need to be kept away from our supplies with guns
creative accounting
little urgency
specific threat(s)

If someone started this rant on a bus stop you'd exchange a glance with a fellow passenger and almost certainly walk home rather than risk getting on a bus with 'em.

Conspiracy theory, Russian funded propaganda or just Henny Penny with time on her hands?

We are not being invaded. Stop it.

Ok ok calm down Alan . You were implying you had some real knowledge other than just taking a general interest. I wondered what it was that's all and it turns out you aren't an expert. Nothing wrong with that. Perfectly fine to be an armchair general. Im not criticising you at all.

Why do I need credentials in military procurement to have an interest, and an opinion ? You have stated you are not an expert on it, but you started a thread on it

I think my thread is about the contradiction between the government asking us to stock up and be ready for something that could potentially be an attack with the government refusing to spend the money needed on our defenve, including our NATO commitments.

Your previous posts are about an invasion on small boats. Not really. I simply mentioned them (as Ive already said) as an example of our country and borders not being adequately defended. Which is true. You seem to have a big focus on the small boats and are concerned about anyone who may suggest they aren't a good thing. Id suggest you have no need to focus on them any longer as I made my point several posts back and you are just repeating the same thing.

Ok ok calm down Alan

The irony of OP telling anyone to calm down.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-breaking-defence-spending-with-uk-industry-rises-above-34-billion-fuelling-reindustrialisation-across-the-uk

That's a little unfair. What's wrong with asking a few questions about the decisions the government are making?

Do you believe everything politicians tell you? Do you think they tell you everything?

Look at the source.

It's not your questions I'm questioning.
It's your conspiracy theorist grade list of threats.

Adds governement and everything they say and do the the list.

Are you sure they are "conspiracy theories". Or possibilities?

Russian or some enemy attack

Solar flare or solar mass ejection taking out power and the internet

Those are the two I've mentioned. Why would you dismiss the first at least when we are being regularly told by military and security chiefs that Russian attacks are happening already.

Solar flare ..we are overdue one. They have happened before. Why would that be a conspiracy theory when natural disasters arent?

They're not the only two you've mentioned though are they?

I didn't say they were conspiracy theories. I said that you had presented a
"conspiracy theorist grade list of threats". It's the torrent of random 'possibilities' that makes it all so Henny Penny.

I am perfectly calm ta very much.

The UK defense budget is $91 billion a year. I looked that up earlier. However, this data site says $89 billion for 2025.

Military expenditure. Data by Countries from 1949 to 2025 (statbase.org)

That puts the UK spend in 6th place in the world. Below the US, the PRC,Russia, Germany and India. But above everyone else in the world.

But you are saying, quote "..... the government refusing to spend the money needed on our defenve, including our NATO commitments.".

If the UK are in 6th position IN THE WORLD for defense spend ( a PP also posted this), how do you work out " the government refusing to spend the money needed on our defenve" ?

If you want more money spent on small boats, that is not defense spend.

Can you not stick a label on your armchair, saying "Military General", and say what military things more money needs to be spent on ? If we add a few billion we will overtake India. $15 billion to overtake Germany. As for the USA, the PRC and Russia, do you really think we are unilaterarly competing with them ?

And remember. Historically, pre Trump, one of the aims of the massive US spend, with securitity guarantees to NATO allies ( and others), is to prevent other single nations building a military strong enough to threaten the USA.

Put that " Military General" sticker on YOUR chair, and think about it. NATO was more about supporting the US, to keep the US at the top of the free world sort of thing, esp post cold war. But then Trump, and he saw $$$. Get NATO nations to spend more, and they spend it with US MIC. But that is not happening. Now Euro nations are ramping up their own military industry, and that takes time.

Hell, even Canada are switching to SAAB planes, for new order, because of Trump.

Interesting but it contains the almost standard spin about what investment will do for the industrial base, in passing the electronics industry and of course hard working familes, language designed to appeal to the back benches.

"the figures demonstrate how the government is placing the defence industrial base at the centre of national renewal, with rising investment helping to generate opportunities in towns and cities across the UK, increasing household incomes and giving people more breathing room."

The big question is how many more troops, aircraft, and other defence related systems - the stuff that actually goes bang and actually might act as a deterrent is this rise actually going to be procure.

Maybe I imagined it (I didn't) but the recent budget did increase defence spending.

However, this be prepared thing is simply that. We've become so used to being able to order whatever we want 24/7 no one's prepared for anything. They're simply saying it's a good idea to make sure you'll be OK for a few days if the power goes out or supply chains are disrupted, which could happen for multiple reasons, by far the least likely is full scale old fashioned war.