This post nails it about left wing voters on Mumsnet over the last two days

[ProudAmberTurtle]

It's by an ex-academic on X, about posts on Reddit over the last 48 hours but is equally applicable to Mumsnet, where I can seeing posts stating things like:

"How stupid are Reform voters? Don't they realise they'll get fewer benefits?!"

The irony is of course that it's those posters who need to be educated, not the working class voters they mock because they think they're thick.

Here you go:

Reading through Reddit threads in which leftists/progressives express their bewilderment/confusion/fury at working class English voters for casting their lot in with Reform, one of the things I'm starting to understand is this:

They simply do not understand how a government could help working-class people in any other way besides giving them benefits, handouts, and other free things.

Their entire mental architecture is premised upon the premises that

1. Working class people are poor
2. The only way for them to not be poor is for the state to give them free stuff
3. So left-wing parties need to promise them lots of free stuff

Then, when these working-class voters instead vote for right-of-centre parties who instead promise an economy in which they can build a career, start their own business, make a financial success of themselves and start a family, they're confused.

Because, again, in their mental architecture, what the working class are supposed to want is free benefits from the state.

But what they actually want is a fair shake at making their own way in the world, making money, getting on in life.

And the left simply doesn't understand that what these voters want from the state is an economy in which they can actually do this.

x.com/i/status/2053073719086469193

Cleaning up the country of rubbish. Prosecuting flytippers and crushing their vehicles - that would be nice. It's hard to be proud when the country I looking like a shithole.

Has anyone changed their politics opinions whilst following this thread?

What you copy pasted, nailed nothing.

I am curious though, about this vote being a protest one, a vote of despair..

Wasn't the Brexit vote that also?

Does Farage really need to gaslight on a loop, stoke up such division it runs the country into the ground - while banging on about boats - before his supporters realises what a fucking stinking con man he is?

I am mind blown we are living this all again. Led by the same charlaton. Led by the same tactics.

It is extraordinarily depressing just how successful this c* has managed to have us all turn on each other.

He doesn't give a flying fuck about a single one of us.

So there should be NO flags following your point. Did you see some of the Green councillors unfurling Palestine flags. Would they be banned too?

So you've traced your ancestors back a 1000 years? Wow. How did you manage to do that when the earliest parish registers began circa 1300?

She hasn’t traced anything.

Exactly!

Yes we could call it "Welcomeland" and the flag could have a unicorn with glitter. Let's ban the reporting of random stabbings at the same time. Just sweep up the bodies and never speak of them then we will all get along brilliantly. "Welcome to Welcomeland. Have some candy, do the actions to the Welcomeland song and don't mention the bodies".

Of course the “privileged” get it. We all have to live with the massive decline in public services despite the enormous rises in our council tax bills and de facto rises in income tax. We are the ones that are paying inheritance tax, 45% top rate tax, VAT on school fees, capital gains tax, higher rates of stamp duty etc etc to fund it all. We don’t get child benefit or childcare tax breaks. We don’t even use some public services like schools and healthcare. We are net contributors to the economy and most people are not.

To the OP - don’t agree at all. Anyone who thinks Reform will create that environment for the working classes is deluded.

good lord, are you drunk?

This is total bollocks.

Most lefties hate racists. So if you're white, working class and racist, then yes, we dislike you. But if you're a normal person who doesn't hate someone because of the colour of their skin, where they come from, or due to their religion (and if you're capable of treating these individuals with kindess and respect), we do not have any issues with you at all. None.

Talk about turning an argument on its head! "It's not the racists that are wrong, its people that hate racists!"

Just exploring the possibility of creating a country name and flag from nothing (that is more welcoming of course as per instructions) and pointing out that a new name and a new flag won't solve the countries problems e.g. violence.

Never thought I'd say this but Mumsnet has become a cesspit. The sneering and vitriol posted towards anyone left of centre is vile. The gloating and boasting is honestly breathtakingly disgusting.

My children will be impacted by reform taking power - my children who I have to already fight for any kind of support will be decided by leaders who talk about resources to support them as 'insane', who openly claim that they'll take away resources and protections from them.

My friends are frightened, people are violently calling for their removal because they have indefinite leave to remain, they work, pay taxes and commit no crimes but they have disgusting slurs spat at them online which are bleeding into real life. People are being racist and encouraged to do so by people being elected as councillors in their local area.

Why would people be gloating about this and calling people who are frightened about the future names? I'm so sad about all of this.

The Reform supporters I know best are working class and don't claim benefits. One is an NHS care worker and she gets pissed off working every hour she can whilst other working class people do fuck all. There's one woman in our circle of friends who is causing a significant amount of conflict because she is grifting and taking the piss with benefits. It's the more working class women in the group who are most pissed off by it rather than the ones paying most tax.

I don't think people realise there is a split between working class blue collar workers who have a history of Methodist type work ethics and pride in work and the concept of idle hands being the devil's work and a Benefits Class. Historically there has always been this mentality which worked well for the Tories and Labour when there were job opportunities and you could work your way out of poverty.

This group now feels lumped in and dismissed as stupid by a middle class who only see education as a way out of poverty. This is a relatively new thing - the bringing in of university as the only way to work up protected the middle classes who had the means to support children this way whilst practical access routes were closed down and it was no longer possible to train on the job and through proving yourself through hard work alone.

Too many people don't recognise this coincided with a point with the EU where people from abroad who had opportunities to train and therefore had experience took up jobs in these areas meaning that working class people who otherwise would have worked their way up were further restricted in opportunities. Hence Brexit. This gap wasn't recognised by middle classes because it didn't affect them.

I don't think Reform leaders are interested in this particularly. They want tax opportunities and see disaffection as merely a way to gain power. But if you are working class you have nothing to lose if you want opportunities that aren't there - you already think you have been failed by the middle class led Tories and Labour - because they have been as their political blind spots have been constantly where hard working working class individuals are situated.

And this continues to be the case. The most hated policies are those that cover these bases and are where the Tories and Labour have this blind spot of hard worker lower class individuals. They think it's all about money not things like a sense of community, pride in support themselves without government inference and feeling part of society rather than just a support act to the middle classes.

It's the writing off and silencing that a major part of the problem. If you aren't academic and you aren't articulate from education you are 'outside'.

This is going to cause a certain problem in coming years as it's middle class jobs on the line with white collar jobs most at risk from AI and this is going to cause all manner of issues. When the head of BlackRock is saying you should train your kids to be plumbers not lawyers that says a lot. The Middle Classes who aren't paying attention to this coming shift are in for a rude awakening as the balance of power will firmly shift further with this change....

I should add I'm absolutely not a Reform voter. I dislike what they are about and what their ambitions are but I totally get why people are looking to them for and why. That's not stupid. Stupid would be to continue to vote for political parties who have demonstrated for years that they don't represent your interests - you don't make the same mistake repeatedly if you habe anything about you.

The point for me has always been about these traditional parties who continue to pay lip service and miss the point to the interests of a huge number of people and then are bewildered when they choose to no longer vote along historical lines. Why should they? These parties need to work harder to listen and represent the interests of everyone rather than serving to protect only their own interests and pet projects.

The tone deafness is the thing that's killing Labour and the Conservatives. They need to engage with difficult topics and conversations which don't adhere to a closed minded perfect version of the world which has been PR washed and sanitised for the Middle Classes to never hear nor experience the difficult stuff.

I have to say the trolling by Reform about locating immigration centres in Green voting areas was the ultimate wind up on this score. The reaction is hilarious. I am happy to watch that one with popcorn.

Labour and the Tories need to ask themselves where they've gone wrong. It's not that difficult to work out.

Oh and Reform will screw over the working class if they get in. It's inevitable. They want it to be like the US. This means only the most affluent will be ok. That means working class and a sizeable part of the Middle Class will be screwed.

It's not 2021 anymore, no-one now buys this attempt at emotional manipulation.

You just come across as an intolerant scaremongerer.

Pls be real pls be real pls be real.

It would be so funny if people who thought like this actually existed 😆😆😆🤪

Well the (right wing) Tories grew such a strong economy from 2010-2024 didn’t they? Oh actually they didn’t. Real wages fell over that period, especially for those in the public sector.
They also gave us Brexit which has adversely affected our GDP.

I could never in a million years consider voting for Reform but this sort of attitude is insane. Being proud of the UK as a country (despite its many flaws) is not a bad thing.

Being "proud of a country" is every bit as batshit as being "proud" of being 5'2" tall or being "proud" of having brown hair.

For the vast majority it's nothing but accident of birth, and if you'd never been thought of the country in question would be absolutely no different.

"National Pride" is a ridiculous concept. It implies there is a natural hierarchy to countries and nations, which is precisely the sort of thinking that gave us colonialism, empire, the slave trade, and butchery and subjugation of "inferior" people from "lesser" nations.

Achievements are something to be "proud" of, not just the mere fact your mother happened to birth you at a specific set of coordinates that mean you were inside the recognised borders of some random nation.

And you come across as someone who doesn't think very much.

In fact, you are simply someone who comes across as the most contemptuous of us all.

Spoken like the exact same US-based sociopaths who are happy to ignore the fact their President debases the office every single day, and that where they live is rapidly descending into a hellscape, because their backing of Trump "owns the libs".

Good luck when the leopards come to eat your face, because nobody is going to intervene on your behalf.

I haven't RTFT but I am bewildered how a thread that is supposed to be about the Left's failings has turned into an anti-Reform thread.
It seems to me that the Left refuse to look at themselves or admit they have made mistakes. They always resort to whataboutery and claim that it's everyone else who is wrong. Never them.

This!