This post nails it about left wing voters on Mumsnet over the last two days

[ProudAmberTurtle]

It's by an ex-academic on X, about posts on Reddit over the last 48 hours but is equally applicable to Mumsnet, where I can seeing posts stating things like:

"How stupid are Reform voters? Don't they realise they'll get fewer benefits?!"

The irony is of course that it's those posters who need to be educated, not the working class voters they mock because they think they're thick.

Here you go:

Reading through Reddit threads in which leftists/progressives express their bewilderment/confusion/fury at working class English voters for casting their lot in with Reform, one of the things I'm starting to understand is this:

They simply do not understand how a government could help working-class people in any other way besides giving them benefits, handouts, and other free things.

Their entire mental architecture is premised upon the premises that

1. Working class people are poor
2. The only way for them to not be poor is for the state to give them free stuff
3. So left-wing parties need to promise them lots of free stuff

Then, when these working-class voters instead vote for right-of-centre parties who instead promise an economy in which they can build a career, start their own business, make a financial success of themselves and start a family, they're confused.

Because, again, in their mental architecture, what the working class are supposed to want is free benefits from the state.

But what they actually want is a fair shake at making their own way in the world, making money, getting on in life.

And the left simply doesn't understand that what these voters want from the state is an economy in which they can actually do this.

x.com/i/status/2053073719086469193

Agree 100%. But people in public life, education, the arts etc, value their own lives. The teacher from Batley is still in hiding. People know if they criticise or mock Islam they are taking a big risk.

That's where the threat is coming from. Some other posters are saying this is not the case and they are being disingenuous.

It's by an ex-academic on X

Actually it's by a nameless account, with not a lot of followers, who claims he's an ex-academic. He could just as equally be Joe Bloggs who works for Reform.

“Suppressed” is quite the over statement.

There was a flurry of the shock horrors when it came out (which of course increased box office) but it largely followed its original release plan. It certainly wasn’t banned in all the places listed.

The film might not have been shown in every cinema (but few films were) and certainly councils discussed banning it - usually because an item was put on the agenda - but it was widely available. It was generally shown at its Film Board censor level (which was the contemporary equivalent of PG IIRC). It certainly wasn’t being shown as an X rated film when I saw it - I would have needed the fake ID.

OTOH at least film censorship was visible to all and a clear subject of discussion. There was a lot less indirect censorship which can be far more pernicious.

Oh I love that bit.

And when the Centurian makes the activists paint “Romans Go Home” hundreds of times all over the walls because of a error in their Latin 😂

The whole blasphemy thing was nonsense largely drummed up by people who hadn’t seen the film (or the film’s marketing team, depending on who you believed 😀).

It was never anti Christian - it was a satire on mindlessly following an ideology or cause without stopping to engage a brain. Its a theme which recurs through the Python series and at worst, from a religious perspective the case might be “tasteless” not “blasphemous”. There were a few theologians/priests trotted out on the interview circuit to make precisely this point during the acres of coverage.
The satire is as relevant today as it was then, albeit today's ideologies are different.

The fatwa declared on Salman Rushdie, and the multiple attempts on his life make it clear that Islam is intolerant of dissent. Charlie Hebdo? The Bataclan murders? The atrocious reaction to the publication of cartoons in Denmark in 2005? The Batley schoolmaster forced into hiding?

Many Western European countries have given a generally hospitable reception to displaced Muslims, but I don't think the welcome was intended to be construed as an open invitation to set up parallel societies within Europe.

Yes, agreed, and to go back to the original point of this thread, liberal leftists who pander to Islam are doing nobody any favours (including the more moderate elements in the Muslim community).

I get that none of us wants to lose our livelihoods or to be killed, but it's important to recognise that there is a problem.

Except of course the OP makes no mention of what you say in their opening post.

Nobody on this thread is bashing Muslims.

Erm. Quote:

"5MinuteArgument · Today 21:33
Yes, agreed, and to go back to the original point of this thread, liberal leftists who pander to Islam are doing nobody any favours (including the more moderate elements in the Muslim community).
I get that none of us wants to lose our livelihoods or to be killed, but it's important to recognise that there is a problem."

Why is this bashing anyone, from your perspective as a man o/s.

@RedTagAlan

Btw, I replied to you yesterday about what we had lost, you had insisted so much on getting an answer, and since you have had one, radio silence on the topic.

Do you mean this post that you tagged me in ?

"inkognitha · Yesterday 01:49
People cannot believe anymore that their society’s aim is to achieve personal emancipation, equality between sexes, scientific progress, or freedom from obscurantism and dogma."

I honestly don't understand that. As a reply to what has been lost I mean. It's a bit too high brow for me I think. Honestly.

You say "People cannot believe anymore...". What people do you mean?

Then you say " their society’s ", I am not sure what you are referring to. Should you not define what society is in this context?

Then when you say "achieve personal emancipation", is that not a contradiction to it being the aim of a (non defined) society ?

Those 3 things could mean near anything politically depending on how you define society, or what society you mean.

"equality between sexes". As an ongoing process, has that stopped or been reversed?

"scientific progress". Has that stopped or been reversed?

"freedom from obscurantism". I had to look that up. Who is against the spreading of knowledge ? Apart from Trump.

(Freedom from)" dogma". What dogma do people not believe they have freedom from ?

I did not reply because I genuinely did not know what you mean. It's very abstract.

So, you’re ignorant or dim, and you prefer to hide it rather than engage and learn, yet we should pay a lot of credit to your opinions from the big man in China because …?

God of the Atheists, grant me some day the self-confidence of a mediocre man 😂

All these notions come from the Enlightenment, the French Revolution and the Human’s Right Declaration, which is a bit of a milestone in the history of the relationship between citizen, state and religion.

personal emancipation: you re a citizen free to live as you want, you are not limited or be forced to stay within the group, clan, caste, religion, community, etc, you are born into.

equality between sexes: nc

scientific progress: science over beliefs

freedom from obscurantism and dogma: be free to call out anything that is not science-based and/or that goes against personal emancipation etc.

dogma: any opinion that people are not allowed to question

hth, but it won’t.

Anyone who thinks our freedoms are not under threat should have a chat to the Religious Studies teacher from Batley who showed his pupils a picture of Muhammad during a lesson about blasphemy and free speech.

Although unfortunately it's not possible to speak to him as he's still in hiding 5 years later and unlikely ever to return home. Also had death threats and is suffering from PTSD.

The report into the case is chilling and as our demographics change, it's likely we'll have more of this.

What sort of picture of Muhammed given he was around in the 7th Century?

This is the story

Poor bloke

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-68659435

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but surely you realise by now that Mumsnet is largely a left-wing echo chamber and you won't find many agreeing with you - either because they don't, or because they daren't.

Is it?

There are a lot of Reform defenders posting

A cartoon of Muhammed. Not a photo!

Quote : "So, you’re ignorant or dim, and you prefer to hide it rather than engage and learn, yet we should pay a lot of credit to your opinions from the big man in China because …?"

You appear to be in ad hominem territory here.

In the OPs opening statement on this thread, the OP wrote : " "How stupid are Reform voters? Don't they realise they'll get fewer benefits?!"". And it goes on to talk about how the left put down the working class etc. The usual "them and us' stuff, about how the left are the educated elite now attacking the working class.

Well, I am on the left, have always voted left any time I have been able to vote, and I am working class.

When you say I am ignorant or dim, then you go on to talk about "the Enlightenment, the French Revolution and the Human’s Right Declaration", well yes. I am ignorant of the first 2. I never studied them. I was doing working class stuff rather than study those. I know a bit about the Human Rights Declaration though. Here is a link that I use when I reference it. It's actually a censored subject where I am. I see nothing in here that the UK have withdrawn from.

eng.pdf (ohchr.org)

Here is the question I asked: " What British Culture things can't people do anymore ?"

I have not seen an answer to that yet. Instead, I am getting a pile on and ad hominem attacks. And now stuff about the age of enlightenment, the French Revolution and the UN Human rights declaration.

This bit here you posted :

"personal emancipation: you re a citizen free to live as you want, you are not limited or be forced to stay within the group, clan, caste, religion, community, etc, you are born into.

equality between sexes: nc

scientific progress: science over beliefs

freedom from obscurantism and dogma: be free to call out anything that is not science-based and/or that goes against personal emancipation etc.
dogma: any opinion that people are not allowed to question""

Can you give examples of this not being allowed ?

If I can pick just one. "scientific progress: science over beliefs". Is that banned in the UK now ? We can throw in dogma too. Especially religious dogma to narrow it down a bit. I regularly take part in debates/discussions on these things. I am on the pro science/anti religion side. And I have never been prevented from being pro science here, or anywhere else.

Just so we can be clear, and do some definitions sort of stuff. Are you coming at this from the position of, for example, a climate change denier? Where you think the UK government and various institutions are pushing a "fake dogma" that the earth is undergoing climate change.

Anyway. This is what I asked. " What British Culture things can't people do anymore ?"

I don't see how the French Revolution answers that.

Can you give examples of this not being allowed ?
If I can pick just one. "scientific progress: science over beliefs
freedom from obscurantism and dogma: be free to call out anything that is not science-based and/or that goes against personal emancipation etc.
dogma: any opinion that people are not allowed to question"

Easy. The trans debate. We have had over a decade of trying to explain that science (biology) is more important than belief (gender ideology). Sex (chromosomes, gametes and all sorts of science-y stuff) versus gender (which is never defined so you can't pin it down. Obscurantism and dogma writ large).
We finally had a legal ruling over a year ago that confirmed that woman means woman and man needs man. Try and get your head round that - that that needs to be explained and laying down in law! And, on top of that, it has taken the Government over a year to issue Guidelines to help people implement this really difficult concept [sarcasm alert] that woman=woman and man=man.

The concept of gender was recognised in the UK, via the Gender Recognition Act, by the Lefty Liberals.

Attempts were made to attack people who tried to uphold science: they were demonised, some were de-platformed and/or lost their livelihoods, others self-censored for fear of the same, they were threatened (death, rape, etc), they were harassed by the Police at the behest of the genderists (the very Orwellian Non Crime Hate Incidents), etc, etc

How did you manage to miss all that?

So that's one answer to your "what cultural thing can't people do any more?" Civilised debate is shut down. People have lost freedom of speech: they self-censor for fear of repercussions. They can't rely on the Police to be impartial on upholding law & order. They can't rely on the NHS to do their one job (understand human biology). That's all pretty disastrous, culturally speaking.

Reform isn’t about the working class, poor or otherwise. It’s about making its key people and their cronies rich. Oh, and don’t expect them to turn up to do any actual work for us, either in their constituency or in parliament.

“ The new Reform UK mayor of Redditch is facing an investigation into her social media - after a series of historic posts emerged showing her criticising black, Asian and LGBT communities.

Councillor Sue Eacock has come under fire for remarks on X, including one where she suggested there were too many black performers at the Queen's Platinum Jubilee concert.
She also tweeted the comedian Lenny Henry to say she did not want to attend a gig, writing "no thanks, I identify as a white woman", and responded to a video of purely Asian people in a street by stating it was "heartbreaking to see our once beautiful capital, London, falling."

From the BBC this morning. This is the calibre of the Reform politicians who are hoping to represent us.

do you mean the left who campaigned for weekends, maternity benefit, paternity benefit, paid annual leave, better working conditions, national minimum wage, sick pay

all those workers benefits?

or do you mean another left?