This post nails it about left wing voters on Mumsnet over the last two days

[ProudAmberTurtle]

It's by an ex-academic on X, about posts on Reddit over the last 48 hours but is equally applicable to Mumsnet, where I can seeing posts stating things like:

"How stupid are Reform voters? Don't they realise they'll get fewer benefits?!"

The irony is of course that it's those posters who need to be educated, not the working class voters they mock because they think they're thick.

Here you go:

Reading through Reddit threads in which leftists/progressives express their bewilderment/confusion/fury at working class English voters for casting their lot in with Reform, one of the things I'm starting to understand is this:

They simply do not understand how a government could help working-class people in any other way besides giving them benefits, handouts, and other free things.

Their entire mental architecture is premised upon the premises that

1. Working class people are poor
2. The only way for them to not be poor is for the state to give them free stuff
3. So left-wing parties need to promise them lots of free stuff

Then, when these working-class voters instead vote for right-of-centre parties who instead promise an economy in which they can build a career, start their own business, make a financial success of themselves and start a family, they're confused.

Because, again, in their mental architecture, what the working class are supposed to want is free benefits from the state.

But what they actually want is a fair shake at making their own way in the world, making money, getting on in life.

And the left simply doesn't understand that what these voters want from the state is an economy in which they can actually do this.

x.com/i/status/2053073719086469193

Do you disregard all those working class people you must come into contact with? The driver, the cabby, the coffee shop worker, the sales assistant, the cleaner, the postie, the delivery driver…. And so on.
You speaking about those that provide the backbone of our lives in such a dismissive way is repulsive.

@Loopylalalou I don’t dismiss them but they have jobs. They can, of course, have views I disagree with. When dc were at school, a London cabbie parent
was 100% racist. Awful man. So was the carpet fitter dad. Unfortunately the working class I’ve met are somewhat unpleasant but what I definitely don’t like is them getting far more political air time than the rest of us. Why we have to have policies based on their attitudes and fickle dislikes is beyond me. Brexit should have told us this is all wrong.

Other working class folk aren’t working at all. It’s easy not to. Or just work a few hours and claim benefits. Even the well educated do this. Highly annoying when they expect others who haven’t had their education to expect to pay more tax so they get increased benefits! It’s just wrong.

Completely bizarre.

Reform voters simply want immigration to be controlled and Reform are the only party saying they will do it.

Labour will spend all their energies not smashing the gangs and the Tories are the ones that let nearly a million people in in one year in the first place. As for the greens they just want us all to hold hands and teach the world to sing which will get us nowhere fast.

So many comments how Reform voters are "hurting" or "lashing out" or a protest vote. No they simply want someone to control immigration and implement policies that actually work to that end. It's not that deep.

I think viewing the Greens as happy tree huggers is to ignore the very left wing element overtaking the party.

But, Labour (now) have done nothing to discourage it. 🙄

Last thing I read, numbers were significantly down under the new Home Secretary. For some reason, it's not being reported much by the mainstream media.

Actually, the work they have done with the French is already making a difference.

I think most working class people know someone who is working the system and feel frustrated when they are told that that is vanishingly rare.

However, I think as well as finances, many people are fed up of being told there is no such thing as British values or British culture. I have seen that on these boards.

They are worried, in many northern towns, that they are becoming a minority and frustrated and upset when people-on these boards for example-say what really worries you about this-is it because they are brown folk.

Well yes, in some cases it is-they see people from other countries dressed in the way their culture demands, lots of mosques and Islamic education centres springing up and they are worried that it is end days for them.

These worries are dismissed by saying that they are uncultured racists.

That adds fuel to their feelings, although I have observed that the word racist in these areas no longer carries the weight it did.

They are annoyed that in their local museums and art galleries, many displays and exhibitions are about these cultures and wonder why that should be. They see that exhibits now have little cards up explaining why it is unsound from a racist viewpoint.

This is their experience.

They read about how the countryside has been deemed racist; they read that Halal meat is served in schools and hospitals; they read that diversity is our strength and all sorts of things like local sharia courts springing up in terraced houses.

This may not be their experience BUT their experience of other stuff tells them that there is a good chance that the rest of it is true too,

Reform know all this and they give the impression at least that they will tackle it.

I think other political parties focus on how much migrants cost-good or bad-and this is a consideration but it is my belief that the changing culture is the thing that will sweep Reform to power or at least make them kingmakers.

@SweetSummerHerbs - every word you’ve said.

This. Working class means working people - they seem to get forgotten by the left.

Labour are fine throwing money in benefits about, but then clobber the working class with an ever growing tax burden.

Does nobody on the left work ?

Apparently not. Yet “working class” seems to have expanded to include everyone who has a job. There’s no sense nor reason to it.

I think that we have to remember the definition of 'working class'.
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Yes, I agree. The demographics of our country are changing fast. The better off don't see it because they're insulated from it.

So all the mainstream politicians and media have to offer is telling people that they shouldn't feel unsettled by the changes and that they should just shut up. It doesn't surprise me that Reform are doing well.

Absolutely poppycock, Labour have put huge money into this including a recent deal with the French - what makes you think they want uncontrolled migration? Rules to come here legally are incredibly tight - it was the Torys who basically said ‘come on in ‘ post Brexit to disguise the fact that staffing wise on essential services Brexit was a bloody disaster. A lot of working class Brits if we must use that expression are more than happy to work as little as possible and get top ups ( and plenty of trustafarian types too on the left too ) - if Reform did get even tighter on benefits and disabled entitlement, ironically it’s many of their own voters they will hit too - turkeys voting for Xmas - coz we all know they mean ‘other peoples’ benefits, not ones they might get - personally I totally agreed with getting rid of WFA ( my father in law at 86 is loaded, my struggling 28 year old son working full time and in London doesn’t get it) and I also agreed with the 2 child cap- and im a centre left voter.

Labour are globalists, most of them believe in open borders and free movement. They see immigrants as natural Labour voters so having large numbers arriving and eventually claiming citizenship can only help Labour's prospects long term.

They allow the lawyer class to obstruct deportation with an endless round of appeals. A tiny percentage of illegal immigrants get deported.

They may have given money to the French and they may like to talk tough, but Labour are not committed to controlling our borders and people have got wise to it.

The Left are all sitting at home counting their generous benefit money that the Right pays for, keep up

Ahh right. So where does the proletariat and bourgeoise fit in now ? This all confuses me :-)

I wonder if the communist Parties of China, Vietnam and Cuba have updated their definitions to match what Reform voters say ?

it was the Torys who basically said ‘come on in ‘ post Brexit to disguise the fact that staffing wise on essential services Brexit was a bloody disaster.
The rot set in with Labour encouraging Freedom of Movement (many other EU countries did not do this). People who had money were happy use the Polish Plumber who was cheaper and more reliable than the home-grown variety. The HGV weren't so happy at being undercut and hence Brexit.

I'm always amazed that people who decry colonialism - the exploitation, in their homeland, of overseas resources and populations - are also the people who are comfortable with immigration - the exploitation of overseas populations, by depriving them of their best workers.

Labour are globalists
YY to this. Socialists are very keen on the international angle. They seem to care more for fellow socialists abroad than for their own countrymen/women. It could explain why NeverHereKeir is all over world events, to the detriment of sorting out his own back yard.

So you have somehow converted the concept of free movement into some sort of colonial exploitation of the proletariat?

While actually the concept of free movement is just what it says on the tin. That in a union of like minded states, people should be able to choose where they live and work.

@RedTagAlan
Only the Left in the UK think that everyone should be equal even if it means that everyone becomes poorer.
China believes in people working hard. It does not believe that everyone should be equal. There is a big divide between rich and poor in China. The government has a monopoly on power but it has a market-driven economy. There is a lot of private enterprise. This has allowed the country to get richer and has improved everyone's standard of living.
Vietnam also has a big divide between rich and poor. It has single party rule but a market driven economy and supports private enterprise. The country is getting richer due to it market driven economy. Although there is a divide between rich and poor, the poorest are also becoming better off.
Venezuela believed in making everyone equal and everyone has become poorer.
Economists say that Cuba's persistent poverty is related to heavy restrictions on private enterprise and socialism. Cuba has food rationing!

Does that imply that the Right is in favour of a bigger divide between poor and rich?

Rich get richer
Poor get poorer

I am sure that is news to the CPC that China does not believe in equality. Do you mean with the Haungbao system they have where they class people as urban or rural ? That is a restrictive and dated system, and it is still in place now because they use it for other reasons. It was to control mass migration from the country to the city. Now it is more about grandparents in rural hometowns looking after kids. Sort of.

Vietnam, I don't know. But communist.

VZ is not communist.

Cuba has the big issue of US sanctions.

Anyway, you never answered the question I asked. Should Marxist countries change how the Proletariat is defined ? This is what I don't understand here.

I can guarantee that those from Bradford weren't.

Bradford is majority white, so yes it will be white British gangs.