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Politics

The Masochism of Voting Reform

142 replies

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 11:16

Reform voters are now the largest mass political movement in the UK. While their leaders are bereft of both principles and plans, dismissing all Reform voters as idiots and racists is a lazy cop out that serves nobody.

Voting Labour is an act of crass immorality and stupidity, voting Tory suggests a drag anchor of stasis and apathy, voting Lib Dem smacks of a lack of passion and imagination, but voting Reform is an act of unmitigated masochism and self harm - but it is important we understand why people do it.

On one level its the logical fallacy outlined in Yes Prime Minister, my dog has four legs and my cat has four legs - therefore my dog is a cat. I want reform and here is a new party called Reform so i’ll vote for that. Dominic Cummings used the word Brexit to work the same scam, Morgan McSweeney deployed the word ‘change’ and the Democrats tried the word ‘joy’. It didn’t work for the Democrats because not enough people in the states wanted ‘joy’ - they wanted revenge, which brings us to the masochism of voting for Reform.

Imagine a child wants an ice cream, their parents say no and the child is left angry about not getting what they want and their lack of agency - perhaps in a hot moment they might even start hating their parents. After a while the parents see how upset their child is and offer an ice cream, but the child screams ‘neaaww!!’ and knocks the ice cream out of their parent’s hand and on to the floor. That’s masochism, any parent will recognise it, the child is too into hating their parent in the moment to take the thing they really want, such moments need careful handling.

Many (most?) people in the UK don’t get much careful handling, they are consistently told in both word and deed that their happiness is irrelevant, perhaps this is a hangover of empire, but more saliently it is why the UK consistently ranks as one of the most unhappy nations in Europe. A shocking but normalised backdrop of familial, educational and neoliberal socioeconomic squashes, dehumanises many Britons, seeing them as little more than throwaway units of consumption and production.

One can see from this standpoint, why many focus on the (wilfully over-hyped and politically weaponised) topic of economic migration that is portrayed as further diluting an already anaemic sense of belonging and adding to a sense that to a certain establishment, working class Britons are as disposable as a used vape. Reform voters may be muddled about the motives of Farage, but they ain’t wrong about that last bit.

The throwaway working classes of Britain, face accusatory pressure from people (usually in comfortable positions in the media, government / politics) that they must remain vigilant about (and indeed accept responsibility for) the hurt feelings of a wide range of people in OTHER groups.

It’s easy to see how exhausted white, heterosexual males scratching an increasingly precarious living in a nation that has never cared about their feelings, might resent the quivering sensitivity demanded of them for gay rights, trans rights, people on the ‘spectrum’, ethnic / religious minorities and all the rest. They might just think that being in the majority ethnic group in the UK is actually a curse rather than a benefit, after all there are no government grants for organisations combating discrimination against the white-van-man, no benefits for people in work who lie awake at night worrying about having to put their car repairs and urgent dental work on their credit card - quite the reverse, these are the people that late stage capitalism loves to exploit to the max.

Now Reform are not any kind of an answer for the precariat (they’ll make it worse), but it is nigh on impossible to explain this to Reform voters and here is why:
Reform voters (and many voters for all the other parties) are often not making an evidenced based judgement but an emotional one, they quite understandably HATE the establishment that dehumanises and discards them and more than anything they want to STICK IT to that establishment, they don’t WANT to check the credentials and plans of their chosen champions and the more that smug liberals tell them they should, the less inclined they feel to do it.

This is the masochism, what matters is not healing or hope, but the hatred (carefully cultivated for decades by the billionaire owned media) for what they see as a shadowy triumvirate of invaders - immigrants, the woke and the loony left.

The British political / media class has nobody but itself to blame for the looming triumph of the Farage / Trump playbook. For decades voters have been promised change and got nothing but more of the same and worse. The lived reality of the political clock in the UK stopped under Thatcher and has not changed since. Those parties like Labour and the Lib-Dems who delivered more status-quo neoliberalism are particularly to blame.

Reform voters will soon have the rare pleasure of sticking a plastic straw up the noses of at least some of the establishment, it doesn't matter to them who benefits or even what happens next as long as Starmer, the immigrants and the woke get shafted by it.

This mostly blind back-lash that Farage is surfing has been long in the making and I doubt much can be done to mitigate it now, but for those minded to try...

...start by trying to understand the emotional landscape of Reform voters first, hear and acknowledge their pain, respect their concerns and fears, listen to their frustration and frayed sense of betrayal and try to offer more hope than a one shot stab at revenge. This job has been made very difficult by identity politics and decades of betrayal from faux left wing hustlers like Blair, Brown and now Starmer but there is little to be lost from the effort and perhaps everything to gain.

Sometimes political change is more about a heartfelt commitment to listening and healing than it is about winning the argument. The Greens, now the champions of the left-liberal progressives, would be especially well served by remembering this.

OP posts:
Timetakesacigarette · 07/05/2026 10:13

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 06:47

Patriotism test:

Is your political party almost entirely bankrolled by a Thailand-based crypto-billionaire who lives there to avoid paying British taxes?

Did your party leader take a £5 million personal handout from the crypto-billionaire, and not bother declaring it as a political interest?
Is the former leader of your Welsh party branch in jail for ten and a half years for taking bribes from the Russians?

Did your party leader encourage the UK to put social and economic sanctions on itself via a ruinous hardline Brexit, then seek German citizenship for his kids so they could avoid the restrictions he helped enforce on everyone else's kids?
Has your party leader mocked Welsh people as "foreign speakers"?

Does your party leader adore Donald Trump and keep on sucking up to him, even after he disparaged British service personnel? Even after he's repeatedly slagged off the UK and especially London? Even after he's economically attacked the UK with tariff sanctions? Even after Trump's goons have been plotting to end Britain's sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, so the US can divvy up the territory's vast mineral resources with Milei's Argentina?

Is your party leader threatening to revoke the workers' rights of British workers?

Does your party attract the support of Nazi-saluting goons, ex-BNP members, and the rest of the extreme-right scum who wish the Nazis had won WWII?

Does your party defend their right to lie to the British public?

Does your party repeatedly show absolute contempt for British laws and regulations?

Did your party's deputy leader set up a load of dodgy offshore shell companies in order to dodge paying £100,000 in Corporation Tax?

Was one of your party's Scottish candidates caught looting Covid "bounceback" loans to fund his (catastrophically incompetent) stock market gambling habit, and get a seven year directorship disqualification?

Do you love wrapping yourself in the flag and pretending to be a patriot, whilst supporting a foreign-funded right-wing extremist party that hates Britain?

If you answered yes to all of these questions. Congratulations. You're a plastic patriot. You pretend to love your country, whilst supporting people who despise it, loot it, and plan to systematically dismantle everything that's good about it.

Really liking this post but unfortunately the ‘we will stop the boats’ rhetoric will override everything else. So, on that premise, the OP has it spot on.

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 10:13

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 10:02

The candidate seemed nice and I wished him luck. I am listening to stuff but wary of some policies. I will still engage, but swing between being very concerned and hearing people out.

What are your reasons for not supporting Greens?

Like you, I can't get behind all of their policies, but equally there are others which not only make perfect sense but are the only sensible, realistic approach to certain problems the country is facing.

Labour have pretty much failed the nation, so I'm wondering if a coalition might not be the favourable outcome of the next General? Obviously, rejection of FPTP and taking on a fairer system of proportional representation would be best, but the likelihood of that happening in this country is minimal...

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 10:24

Timetakesacigarette · 07/05/2026 10:13

Really liking this post but unfortunately the ‘we will stop the boats’ rhetoric will override everything else. So, on that premise, the OP has it spot on.

Totally agree. Unfortunately, many people couldn't be bothered to read the OP's post, or feebly tried to dismiss it as AI, etc. 🙄

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 10:28

Timetakesacigarette · 07/05/2026 10:13

Really liking this post but unfortunately the ‘we will stop the boats’ rhetoric will override everything else. So, on that premise, the OP has it spot on.

Considering this further, I think what the OP was alluding to in places was that those who are utterly wedded to the lies Reform are peddling are unlikely (maybe incapable?) of seeing through them and seeing the damage they will do to this country.

Part of me suspects that some of their supporters not only don't care that Reform are led and largely populated by corrupt grifters, but that they celebrate them precisely BECAUSE they are corrupt grifters; as though that somehow is the action of 'sticking it to the man'. Such people, I'm guessing, are so disenfranchised that their attitude becomes 'screw it. burn it all down', without realising the enormous damage their actions will have on the rest of us.

Brexit was the same.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 07/05/2026 10:34

NeelyOHara · 07/05/2026 10:12

Bit cocky for someone who is having their comments deleted 🤣

quite incredibly "cock"y :D

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 07/05/2026 10:35

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 10:10

Come back? Nobody has gone anywhere, despite your deluded view they have.
You are simply being disregarded for your puerile attempts to derail the thread; keep your blithering for your own thread specifically dedicated to your anti-trans idology.
We are now done, unless you miraculously manage to get off your obsession and start being part of the thread. 😉

Back up your arguments sir xx

Wizeman · 07/05/2026 10:37

People want reform because they feel that the country is no longer what it was and is turning into something else. It’s that simple. That’s the main reason people want reform.

If you dive deeper than that, they make other obvious points: welfare spending is too high, and not enough people are working. If they remove benefits from those who don’t need them, they will be forced to work, and it will add growth to the economy and free up cash. I know multiple people working part-time and claiming benefits for things like ADHD, etc., when they can work perfectly fine. I could claim benefits, yet I don’t.

They also address crime. I see shoplifting all of the time, and I’m sick of it.

Immigration is the biggest point they address. If you look at the facts, our infrastructure can’t handle such a big increase in population and this explains the cost of houses going up and the nhs struggling. Large demand and low supply, this wouldn't be an issue if the population grows slowly.

It doesn’t help that the rich are leaving, e.g. people earning over £100k who pay plenty of tax. We bring in poorer people and send out richer people. You don’t have to be an economist to realise that less money and more people is bad.

That’s just some of the basic reasons people want reform. I personally don’t believe they will do what they say, but if they do, then great.

charliehungerford · 07/05/2026 10:48

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 12:25

"The CAP is a disaster"
Britain is worse.

" Their Covid response was woeful"
Britain, under Johnson, was far, far worse. We had more deaths than any other European country. A huge part of that was the "woeful" response / handling by the Tory government.

" The immigration issue will break them"
The merest look at official (official, not your AI-generated Reform Facebook posts) statistics show immigration issues increasing enormously post-Brexit (and, given the UK lost access to the EU legislation that permitted the return of immigrants to their country of initial registration, you might say it is partly a result of Brexit).

" Their subjugation to trans ideology is complete"
Your use of the term "trans ideology", and the general syntax of your statement, means we can pretty comfortably disregard it altogether.

The uk didn’t have more deaths than any other European country, that’s a false statement, we didn’t do very well, but the uk wasn’t top of the table, there were five or six European countries that had a higher per capita death rate than here.

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 11:08

charliehungerford · 07/05/2026 10:48

The uk didn’t have more deaths than any other European country, that’s a false statement, we didn’t do very well, but the uk wasn’t top of the table, there were five or six European countries that had a higher per capita death rate than here.

Yeah, I'm having trouble finding whatever datasource the OP used to show that.

The UK's response - under Johnson's egregious government - was utterly appalling and fraught with mismanagement, cronyism contracts, and incompetence, but I can't find any reputable source that puts the UK at the head of European deaths.

FurierTransform · 07/05/2026 11:54

Posts that pontificate on why people vote Reform are always quite funny. I find it still so surprising that educated, worldly people still don't get it.

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 11:54

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 10:13

Like you, I can't get behind all of their policies, but equally there are others which not only make perfect sense but are the only sensible, realistic approach to certain problems the country is facing.

Labour have pretty much failed the nation, so I'm wondering if a coalition might not be the favourable outcome of the next General? Obviously, rejection of FPTP and taking on a fairer system of proportional representation would be best, but the likelihood of that happening in this country is minimal...

It is, because it takes a smaller party to ask for it as a condition as the Lib Dems did and the 2011 referendum didn’t work for them.

I just had another Green turn up to check I had voted, so that’s two more than any other party, both nice people. Pains me but no vote for them yet.

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 11:59

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 11:54

It is, because it takes a smaller party to ask for it as a condition as the Lib Dems did and the 2011 referendum didn’t work for them.

I just had another Green turn up to check I had voted, so that’s two more than any other party, both nice people. Pains me but no vote for them yet.

"Pains me but no vote for them yet."

Mind if I ask why not? Which policy/policies are a red line for you? I'm taking their stance on gender-identity as a given, but anything else?

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 12:17

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 11:59

"Pains me but no vote for them yet."

Mind if I ask why not? Which policy/policies are a red line for you? I'm taking their stance on gender-identity as a given, but anything else?

Yeh I understand ZP might think it’s kind but it runs roughshod over women. It’s been painstaking for many women to get where FWS did at the SC and legislation could easily put us back to zero. I’d just not want that at all.

Other stuff - I need more reassurance around some of the deputy leader views which concern me and in that space, I’m listening on wealth bits and need to hear on the viability of immigration approach.

Answering in good faith here. As said the Green people turned up, where others didn’t, I believe they are probably nice and committed and it goes a long way.

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 12:27

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 12:17

Yeh I understand ZP might think it’s kind but it runs roughshod over women. It’s been painstaking for many women to get where FWS did at the SC and legislation could easily put us back to zero. I’d just not want that at all.

Other stuff - I need more reassurance around some of the deputy leader views which concern me and in that space, I’m listening on wealth bits and need to hear on the viability of immigration approach.

Answering in good faith here. As said the Green people turned up, where others didn’t, I believe they are probably nice and committed and it goes a long way.

That's all perfectly fair.

I can get behind a lot of their stance on trying to address at least some of the issues surrounding the catastrophe of human-accelerated climate change, and appreciate their dedication to net zero and greater embrace of renewables.

The converse of that last point - renewables - is also a chief concern about the awful Reform getting in. Their stance on tearing up net zero and moving away from the common sense of renewable energy (and instead keeping us wedded to fossil fuels and those who produce them) is distrubing.

That Reform's bare-faced liar-in-chief claims moving away from renewables will bring down bills is as transparent an act of knavery as it is a breathtaking one.
I seriously worry for our already suffering environment - and all that entails - if Reform get given any kind of real power.

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 13:25

It is done, I voted. I met another Green at the polling station, again the only party outside. At this point it feels like Truman Show levels of engagement. Good on them though, putting the work in.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 07/05/2026 14:50

I see the Omnicause hivemind is out in force. So many dead brains connected to so many big gobs, so much for the future. 😂😂😂😂

Boomer55 · 07/05/2026 16:39

Local elections are irrelevant. But in a GE, voting Reform or Green is an act of self harm.🙄

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