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Politics

The Masochism of Voting Reform

142 replies

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 11:16

Reform voters are now the largest mass political movement in the UK. While their leaders are bereft of both principles and plans, dismissing all Reform voters as idiots and racists is a lazy cop out that serves nobody.

Voting Labour is an act of crass immorality and stupidity, voting Tory suggests a drag anchor of stasis and apathy, voting Lib Dem smacks of a lack of passion and imagination, but voting Reform is an act of unmitigated masochism and self harm - but it is important we understand why people do it.

On one level its the logical fallacy outlined in Yes Prime Minister, my dog has four legs and my cat has four legs - therefore my dog is a cat. I want reform and here is a new party called Reform so i’ll vote for that. Dominic Cummings used the word Brexit to work the same scam, Morgan McSweeney deployed the word ‘change’ and the Democrats tried the word ‘joy’. It didn’t work for the Democrats because not enough people in the states wanted ‘joy’ - they wanted revenge, which brings us to the masochism of voting for Reform.

Imagine a child wants an ice cream, their parents say no and the child is left angry about not getting what they want and their lack of agency - perhaps in a hot moment they might even start hating their parents. After a while the parents see how upset their child is and offer an ice cream, but the child screams ‘neaaww!!’ and knocks the ice cream out of their parent’s hand and on to the floor. That’s masochism, any parent will recognise it, the child is too into hating their parent in the moment to take the thing they really want, such moments need careful handling.

Many (most?) people in the UK don’t get much careful handling, they are consistently told in both word and deed that their happiness is irrelevant, perhaps this is a hangover of empire, but more saliently it is why the UK consistently ranks as one of the most unhappy nations in Europe. A shocking but normalised backdrop of familial, educational and neoliberal socioeconomic squashes, dehumanises many Britons, seeing them as little more than throwaway units of consumption and production.

One can see from this standpoint, why many focus on the (wilfully over-hyped and politically weaponised) topic of economic migration that is portrayed as further diluting an already anaemic sense of belonging and adding to a sense that to a certain establishment, working class Britons are as disposable as a used vape. Reform voters may be muddled about the motives of Farage, but they ain’t wrong about that last bit.

The throwaway working classes of Britain, face accusatory pressure from people (usually in comfortable positions in the media, government / politics) that they must remain vigilant about (and indeed accept responsibility for) the hurt feelings of a wide range of people in OTHER groups.

It’s easy to see how exhausted white, heterosexual males scratching an increasingly precarious living in a nation that has never cared about their feelings, might resent the quivering sensitivity demanded of them for gay rights, trans rights, people on the ‘spectrum’, ethnic / religious minorities and all the rest. They might just think that being in the majority ethnic group in the UK is actually a curse rather than a benefit, after all there are no government grants for organisations combating discrimination against the white-van-man, no benefits for people in work who lie awake at night worrying about having to put their car repairs and urgent dental work on their credit card - quite the reverse, these are the people that late stage capitalism loves to exploit to the max.

Now Reform are not any kind of an answer for the precariat (they’ll make it worse), but it is nigh on impossible to explain this to Reform voters and here is why:
Reform voters (and many voters for all the other parties) are often not making an evidenced based judgement but an emotional one, they quite understandably HATE the establishment that dehumanises and discards them and more than anything they want to STICK IT to that establishment, they don’t WANT to check the credentials and plans of their chosen champions and the more that smug liberals tell them they should, the less inclined they feel to do it.

This is the masochism, what matters is not healing or hope, but the hatred (carefully cultivated for decades by the billionaire owned media) for what they see as a shadowy triumvirate of invaders - immigrants, the woke and the loony left.

The British political / media class has nobody but itself to blame for the looming triumph of the Farage / Trump playbook. For decades voters have been promised change and got nothing but more of the same and worse. The lived reality of the political clock in the UK stopped under Thatcher and has not changed since. Those parties like Labour and the Lib-Dems who delivered more status-quo neoliberalism are particularly to blame.

Reform voters will soon have the rare pleasure of sticking a plastic straw up the noses of at least some of the establishment, it doesn't matter to them who benefits or even what happens next as long as Starmer, the immigrants and the woke get shafted by it.

This mostly blind back-lash that Farage is surfing has been long in the making and I doubt much can be done to mitigate it now, but for those minded to try...

...start by trying to understand the emotional landscape of Reform voters first, hear and acknowledge their pain, respect their concerns and fears, listen to their frustration and frayed sense of betrayal and try to offer more hope than a one shot stab at revenge. This job has been made very difficult by identity politics and decades of betrayal from faux left wing hustlers like Blair, Brown and now Starmer but there is little to be lost from the effort and perhaps everything to gain.

Sometimes political change is more about a heartfelt commitment to listening and healing than it is about winning the argument. The Greens, now the champions of the left-liberal progressives, would be especially well served by remembering this.

OP posts:
ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 09:21

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 07/05/2026 09:15

Again, specifically you tell me why my 14 year-old daughter should have penises in her changing room and toilets. be exact.

just because you think women are second class citizens doesn’t mean I do

"just because you think women are second class citizens doesn’t mean I do"

I've never said we are second-class citizens, or even alluded to it.
You are again presuming things that serve your delusion. Typical male.

Underthinker · 07/05/2026 09:23

You'd think someone whose posts are mostly calling other people stupid would be able to easily answer your question @SingleSexSpacesInSchools . I'd definitely rather read their response to that than another of their attempts at satire anyway.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 07/05/2026 09:29

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 09:21

"just because you think women are second class citizens doesn’t mean I do"

I've never said we are second-class citizens, or even alluded to it.
You are again presuming things that serve your delusion. Typical male.

Again, I ask you for a third time. Tell me exactly why my 14-year-old daughter should have penises in her changing room and her toilet toilets l, you can’t answer because you’re a misogynist.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 07/05/2026 09:29

Underthinker · 07/05/2026 09:23

You'd think someone whose posts are mostly calling other people stupid would be able to easily answer your question @SingleSexSpacesInSchools . I'd definitely rather read their response to that than another of their attempts at satire anyway.

I did think it was quite a clear and succinct question which would be very easy to answer.

NeelyOHara · 07/05/2026 09:30

“Brexit).
" Their subjugation to trans ideology is complete"
Your use of the term "trans ideology", and the general syntax of your statement, means we can pretty comfortably disregard it altogether.

Who is the ‘we’ you are referring to? Don’t put words in other people’s mouths. Jesus, the absolute arrogance.

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 09:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Underthinker · 07/05/2026 09:32

NeelyOHara · 07/05/2026 09:30

“Brexit).
" Their subjugation to trans ideology is complete"
Your use of the term "trans ideology", and the general syntax of your statement, means we can pretty comfortably disregard it altogether.

Who is the ‘we’ you are referring to? Don’t put words in other people’s mouths. Jesus, the absolute arrogance.

Hard to know who you are quoting there. But trans ideology obviously exists, although the people who subscribe to it tend not to recognise it as ideological.
Edit: oh I think you were essentially agreeing with me about the above quote.

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 09:33

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 07/05/2026 09:13

I think we are looking at labour losing maybe 2000 seats I think it’s going to be worse than the predictions

Good. Well deserved.

NeelyOHara · 07/05/2026 09:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

So you can’t answer why girls have to accept men in their changing rooms then? Gotcha.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 07/05/2026 09:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

letting males into female spaces - is misogyny because it values female needs below male needs.

There we go - a clear, simple argument about why I think you are a misogynist. Without calling people names.

Now you try.

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 09:34

Underthinker · 07/05/2026 09:32

Hard to know who you are quoting there. But trans ideology obviously exists, although the people who subscribe to it tend not to recognise it as ideological.
Edit: oh I think you were essentially agreeing with me about the above quote.

Edited

TBF, most people who subscribe to an ideology don't view it that way; such is the level of their delusion.

Underthinker · 07/05/2026 09:37

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 09:34

TBF, most people who subscribe to an ideology don't view it that way; such is the level of their delusion.

Most people subscribe to multiple ideologies, it just feels alien to talk about them in those terms, as we often reserve the word for whackier belief systems (like gender ideology).

1dayatatime · 07/05/2026 09:42

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 09:33

Good. Well deserved.

Well that depends on who is winning the seats from them. I would much rather Labour councillors keep their seats than lose them to either Reform or especially the Greens.

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 09:45

1dayatatime · 07/05/2026 09:42

Well that depends on who is winning the seats from them. I would much rather Labour councillors keep their seats than lose them to either Reform or especially the Greens.

It neck and neck for Greens / Labour here. The rest don’t really feature. We’ll see, it’s been Labour forever.

1dayatatime · 07/05/2026 09:50

ACIGC · 07/05/2026 08:08

It’s the Lib Dems here. The other day they put a letter through my letterbox which made zero references to what they have done or will do if elected. It was a whole page of “vote for us so we can beat Reform”

Given the shit alternative I would genuinely consider voting LibDem except to my knowledge they have no policies except "not being the other guy ".

As Kamala Harris proved, you don't win elections on just "not being the other guy ".

1dayatatime · 07/05/2026 09:51

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 09:45

It neck and neck for Greens / Labour here. The rest don’t really feature. We’ll see, it’s been Labour forever.

Labour everyday over the Greens for me.

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 09:57

1dayatatime · 07/05/2026 09:51

Labour everyday over the Greens for me.

Are you voting in this round and have a similar race? Just out of interest.

I can’t stand Labour but won’t vote Greens even though the guy seems nice. It’ll be a vote of support for another who won’t win here.

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 09:59

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 09:57

Are you voting in this round and have a similar race? Just out of interest.

I can’t stand Labour but won’t vote Greens even though the guy seems nice. It’ll be a vote of support for another who won’t win here.

"I can’t stand Labour but won’t vote Greens"

I'm not a Green supporter for my own reasons, but I'm curious; why are you so against the Greens? What, specifically, about them turns you away?

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 07/05/2026 10:02

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 07/05/2026 09:33

letting males into female spaces - is misogyny because it values female needs below male needs.

There we go - a clear, simple argument about why I think you are a misogynist. Without calling people names.

Now you try.

come back @ThatLuckyLurker - I know you had your wrist slapped for being so rude (not by me) - keep your logic path going.

Why are women less important than men?

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 10:02

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 09:59

"I can’t stand Labour but won’t vote Greens"

I'm not a Green supporter for my own reasons, but I'm curious; why are you so against the Greens? What, specifically, about them turns you away?

The candidate seemed nice and I wished him luck. I am listening to stuff but wary of some policies. I will still engage, but swing between being very concerned and hearing people out.

What are your reasons for not supporting Greens?

1dayatatime · 07/05/2026 10:06

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 09:57

Are you voting in this round and have a similar race? Just out of interest.

I can’t stand Labour but won’t vote Greens even though the guy seems nice. It’ll be a vote of support for another who won’t win here.

Nah - no local election here and if there was then it would be a two way between Conservatives and LibDem.

If you have a two way between Labour and Greens, the risk of voting for another party with no chance of winning is that you inadvertently let Green win.

EasternStandard · 07/05/2026 10:08

1dayatatime · 07/05/2026 10:06

Nah - no local election here and if there was then it would be a two way between Conservatives and LibDem.

If you have a two way between Labour and Greens, the risk of voting for another party with no chance of winning is that you inadvertently let Green win.

Ik I just can’t Labour are too toxic for me and I want to vote for the leader I support. Whoever wins so be it.

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 10:10

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 07/05/2026 10:02

come back @ThatLuckyLurker - I know you had your wrist slapped for being so rude (not by me) - keep your logic path going.

Why are women less important than men?

Come back? Nobody has gone anywhere, despite your deluded view they have.
You are simply being disregarded for your puerile attempts to derail the thread; keep your blithering for your own thread specifically dedicated to your anti-trans idology.
We are now done, unless you miraculously manage to get off your obsession and start being part of the thread. 😉

NeelyOHara · 07/05/2026 10:12

ThatLuckyLurker · 07/05/2026 10:10

Come back? Nobody has gone anywhere, despite your deluded view they have.
You are simply being disregarded for your puerile attempts to derail the thread; keep your blithering for your own thread specifically dedicated to your anti-trans idology.
We are now done, unless you miraculously manage to get off your obsession and start being part of the thread. 😉

Bit cocky for someone who is having their comments deleted 🤣