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Politics

The Masochism of Voting Reform

142 replies

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 11:16

Reform voters are now the largest mass political movement in the UK. While their leaders are bereft of both principles and plans, dismissing all Reform voters as idiots and racists is a lazy cop out that serves nobody.

Voting Labour is an act of crass immorality and stupidity, voting Tory suggests a drag anchor of stasis and apathy, voting Lib Dem smacks of a lack of passion and imagination, but voting Reform is an act of unmitigated masochism and self harm - but it is important we understand why people do it.

On one level its the logical fallacy outlined in Yes Prime Minister, my dog has four legs and my cat has four legs - therefore my dog is a cat. I want reform and here is a new party called Reform so i’ll vote for that. Dominic Cummings used the word Brexit to work the same scam, Morgan McSweeney deployed the word ‘change’ and the Democrats tried the word ‘joy’. It didn’t work for the Democrats because not enough people in the states wanted ‘joy’ - they wanted revenge, which brings us to the masochism of voting for Reform.

Imagine a child wants an ice cream, their parents say no and the child is left angry about not getting what they want and their lack of agency - perhaps in a hot moment they might even start hating their parents. After a while the parents see how upset their child is and offer an ice cream, but the child screams ‘neaaww!!’ and knocks the ice cream out of their parent’s hand and on to the floor. That’s masochism, any parent will recognise it, the child is too into hating their parent in the moment to take the thing they really want, such moments need careful handling.

Many (most?) people in the UK don’t get much careful handling, they are consistently told in both word and deed that their happiness is irrelevant, perhaps this is a hangover of empire, but more saliently it is why the UK consistently ranks as one of the most unhappy nations in Europe. A shocking but normalised backdrop of familial, educational and neoliberal socioeconomic squashes, dehumanises many Britons, seeing them as little more than throwaway units of consumption and production.

One can see from this standpoint, why many focus on the (wilfully over-hyped and politically weaponised) topic of economic migration that is portrayed as further diluting an already anaemic sense of belonging and adding to a sense that to a certain establishment, working class Britons are as disposable as a used vape. Reform voters may be muddled about the motives of Farage, but they ain’t wrong about that last bit.

The throwaway working classes of Britain, face accusatory pressure from people (usually in comfortable positions in the media, government / politics) that they must remain vigilant about (and indeed accept responsibility for) the hurt feelings of a wide range of people in OTHER groups.

It’s easy to see how exhausted white, heterosexual males scratching an increasingly precarious living in a nation that has never cared about their feelings, might resent the quivering sensitivity demanded of them for gay rights, trans rights, people on the ‘spectrum’, ethnic / religious minorities and all the rest. They might just think that being in the majority ethnic group in the UK is actually a curse rather than a benefit, after all there are no government grants for organisations combating discrimination against the white-van-man, no benefits for people in work who lie awake at night worrying about having to put their car repairs and urgent dental work on their credit card - quite the reverse, these are the people that late stage capitalism loves to exploit to the max.

Now Reform are not any kind of an answer for the precariat (they’ll make it worse), but it is nigh on impossible to explain this to Reform voters and here is why:
Reform voters (and many voters for all the other parties) are often not making an evidenced based judgement but an emotional one, they quite understandably HATE the establishment that dehumanises and discards them and more than anything they want to STICK IT to that establishment, they don’t WANT to check the credentials and plans of their chosen champions and the more that smug liberals tell them they should, the less inclined they feel to do it.

This is the masochism, what matters is not healing or hope, but the hatred (carefully cultivated for decades by the billionaire owned media) for what they see as a shadowy triumvirate of invaders - immigrants, the woke and the loony left.

The British political / media class has nobody but itself to blame for the looming triumph of the Farage / Trump playbook. For decades voters have been promised change and got nothing but more of the same and worse. The lived reality of the political clock in the UK stopped under Thatcher and has not changed since. Those parties like Labour and the Lib-Dems who delivered more status-quo neoliberalism are particularly to blame.

Reform voters will soon have the rare pleasure of sticking a plastic straw up the noses of at least some of the establishment, it doesn't matter to them who benefits or even what happens next as long as Starmer, the immigrants and the woke get shafted by it.

This mostly blind back-lash that Farage is surfing has been long in the making and I doubt much can be done to mitigate it now, but for those minded to try...

...start by trying to understand the emotional landscape of Reform voters first, hear and acknowledge their pain, respect their concerns and fears, listen to their frustration and frayed sense of betrayal and try to offer more hope than a one shot stab at revenge. This job has been made very difficult by identity politics and decades of betrayal from faux left wing hustlers like Blair, Brown and now Starmer but there is little to be lost from the effort and perhaps everything to gain.

Sometimes political change is more about a heartfelt commitment to listening and healing than it is about winning the argument. The Greens, now the champions of the left-liberal progressives, would be especially well served by remembering this.

OP posts:
SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/05/2026 12:40

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 12:37

You are, once again, confused.

Which part of my careful explaining to you that the UK was far, far worse in its Covid response that any other European country do you think was "wrong"?

Could it be that we hold the unwelcome record for the most deaths?
Or the care homes debacle?
Or the fact our prime minister held parties during lockdown?

Only a die-hard Tory or an absolute halfwit could celebrate the UK's Covid response; I'm still trying to decide which one you are... 🤔

so you don't know what the CAP is, cool.

ProudAmberTurtle · 06/05/2026 12:41

Even though we're very divided, I don't think there's ever been more of a consensus that the parties representing us are extremely poor now.

I don't see any enthusiasm for any of the parties from across the political spectrum.

Given this, and the cost of a political bureaucracy at a time of a cost of living crisis, I just can't understand why we're increasing the number of politicians in the UK. Every election there's more mayors or more councillors. The Welsh Assembly at this election is seeing a massive hike in politicians all on huge salaries.

We should be reducing them, not increasing them!

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/05/2026 12:41

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 12:40

Did you read the opening post? I suspect not...

it was so fucking long and monotonous can you blame us?

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 12:42

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/05/2026 12:41

it was so fucking long and monotonous can you blame us?

Oh my dear, when you don't read things you risk making assumptions that make you look, well, like you currently do.

Reading is so important.

OP posts:
SionnachRuadh · 06/05/2026 12:42

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/05/2026 12:41

it was so fucking long and monotonous can you blame us?

to be fair Chat GPT does have a very beige prose style

RoyalCorgi · 06/05/2026 12:42

Sometimes political change is more about a heartfelt commitment to listening and healing than it is about winning the argument.

Ah, the telltale sign of a post that has been written by ChatGPT.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/05/2026 12:42

SionnachRuadh · 06/05/2026 12:42

to be fair Chat GPT does have a very beige prose style

well exactly :)

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 06/05/2026 12:43

I'm still trying to decide which one you are... 🤔

😂😂😂 you'll need a few more brain cells than you're currently in possession of to think anything through.

You make dimwit look like 100 watts. 😕

RoyalCorgi · 06/05/2026 12:44

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 12:42

Oh my dear, when you don't read things you risk making assumptions that make you look, well, like you currently do.

Reading is so important.

And so is writing. Why not just write something succinct in your own words rather than ask an AI tool to write it for you?

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 06/05/2026 12:44

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 12:42

Oh my dear, when you don't read things you risk making assumptions that make you look, well, like you currently do.

Reading is so important.

Here we are, a synopsis of your waffle, which, shock, says literally fuck all.

"People voting Reform aren’t all idiots or racists, and dismissing them that way misses the point.

Reform offers no real answers and would likely make things worse, but many voters are acting from anger, betrayal and exhaustion rather than policy analysis. They feel ignored, disposable and patronised by a political and media class that has promised change for decades while delivering more of the same.

For many, voting Reform is less about hope than revenge: a way to punish Labour, the Tories, “the woke”, immigration and the wider establishment. That emotional backlash has been years in the making.

Anyone serious about stopping Reform needs to stop sneering, listen properly, acknowledge the pain and offer a credible politics of dignity, belonging and real change. Winning the argument is not enough. People need to feel heard."

Igmum · 06/05/2026 12:45

One of the reasons for the rise of Reform is the long term neglect of the working classes by various governments. Where are the decent secure jobs and decent housing? There’s a crying need in this country to focus on this.

I suspect Reform’s interests are also served, as in the US, by a focus on TRA wishes as opposed to women’s and LGB rights. This is so obviously unfair it’s a gift to any opposition. And, as I’ve said before on here, had you asked me 25 years ago I would not have predicted that the Conservatives USP would have been defending women’s and LGB rights and following the law.

CreativeGreen · 06/05/2026 12:46

Voting Labour is an act of crass immorality and stupidity - you say this as though it's just true: why? What morals does it contravene, and why is it stupid?

BettyBooper · 06/05/2026 13:00

Voting Reform is an act of unmitigated masochism and self harm - but it is important we understand why people do it.

If you actually wanted to know why people are voting Reform, you could simply ask the question 'is anyone here voting Reform? I'd be interested in understanding your perspective?'.

But you didn't do that. You have made massive assumptions of your moral superiority and are sneery, even though you claim the opposite.

Your OP drips with the assumption that Reform voters are somehow 'lesser' than you.

NormalAuntFanny · 06/05/2026 13:01

I enjoyed your post @BreezyMoose and mostly agree with it.

It's interesting that a lot of the comments (if you can call astroturfing comments) are either 'u ok hun because I can't read' kind or the insistence it's LLM generated and of course it's all the EU's fault.

Presumably Reform has it's quota of Mumsnet workers beavering away.

Chersfrozenface · 06/05/2026 13:16

Presumably Reform has it's quota of Mumsnet workers beavering away.

In fact, if you look at the posting history of many of those who are dubious about the first post, they are left leaning. Where they criticise current left wing actions and policies, it is from a position of knowledge and experience.

Threeyearoldkids · 06/05/2026 13:19

I don't want to live in a country where every day we have up to a thousand illegal immigrants land on our shores, and SOME of them go on to gang rape our girls and women. Others arrive here legally and still go on to commit heinous crimes.

I don't want to live in a country where certain communities cannot be criticised or held accountable for their actions against our young girls and women or their hatred against Jews.

I don't want to live in a country where our politicians are more concerned about our police using force to stop a terrorist, than the reasons why that terrorist felt entitled to try and kill Jews.

I don't want to live in a country where the issues you have raised have become habitual in our society.

I have lived on other countries and they just wouldn't put up with the shit that we put up with.

So, I have looked down the list of parties on the ballot for tomorrow in my area and I cannot see one of them that is going to address my above serious concerns.

What I really want to do is either vote Conservative or Labour and they will start making the hard decisions to deal with the points above. However, THEY DON'T WANT TO LISTEN.

I like your ice cream story, but I have another one.

Imagine you were a teen who lived at home with their mum, and she moved her boyfriend in. You didn't like his behaviour, he got favoured over you, and his views/ culture did not align with yours. He was a bit physical, and he made lewd remarks. You mentioned it to your mum and you were told to suck it up, and that is his culture. You spent the next few years trying to broach the subject with her, but she wouldn't listen and then blamed you.

One day you came home and said you'd spoken to your dad, and he said you could go live with him, and you were moving out. Your mum was shocked and upset and didn't see it coming. She blamed you for blindsiding her, and being prejudice against her BF and called you a racist. You leave.

This is how I feel. No one is listening to me, or people like me, so I can either do nothing, or make them listen by joining what is hopefully a lot of other people to finally make them listen.

coulditbeme2323 · 06/05/2026 13:23

This post literally says if you don't agree with me then you are wrong.

Reform are targeting the working class who don't feel counted.

I am a dual citizen, and saw it in the last elections.

Kamala targeted the wealthy Manhattan voters, because that's what mattered to her. She didn't care about Birmingham Alabama, and all the rest of the "hillbilly" towns.

How did that go for her?

EasternStandard · 06/05/2026 13:30

NormalAuntFanny · 06/05/2026 13:01

I enjoyed your post @BreezyMoose and mostly agree with it.

It's interesting that a lot of the comments (if you can call astroturfing comments) are either 'u ok hun because I can't read' kind or the insistence it's LLM generated and of course it's all the EU's fault.

Presumably Reform has it's quota of Mumsnet workers beavering away.

I doubt it on this thread. But this type of post always features.

AntiRacistFella · 06/05/2026 13:45

coulditbeme2323 · 06/05/2026 13:23

This post literally says if you don't agree with me then you are wrong.

Reform are targeting the working class who don't feel counted.

I am a dual citizen, and saw it in the last elections.

Kamala targeted the wealthy Manhattan voters, because that's what mattered to her. She didn't care about Birmingham Alabama, and all the rest of the "hillbilly" towns.

How did that go for her?

The US 2024 voting split was much closer than you suggest: Donald Trump received 77,303,568 votes (49.8%) while Kamala Harris garnered 75,009,233 votes (48.3%).

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 06/05/2026 13:46

Threeyearoldkids · 06/05/2026 13:19

I don't want to live in a country where every day we have up to a thousand illegal immigrants land on our shores, and SOME of them go on to gang rape our girls and women. Others arrive here legally and still go on to commit heinous crimes.

I don't want to live in a country where certain communities cannot be criticised or held accountable for their actions against our young girls and women or their hatred against Jews.

I don't want to live in a country where our politicians are more concerned about our police using force to stop a terrorist, than the reasons why that terrorist felt entitled to try and kill Jews.

I don't want to live in a country where the issues you have raised have become habitual in our society.

I have lived on other countries and they just wouldn't put up with the shit that we put up with.

So, I have looked down the list of parties on the ballot for tomorrow in my area and I cannot see one of them that is going to address my above serious concerns.

What I really want to do is either vote Conservative or Labour and they will start making the hard decisions to deal with the points above. However, THEY DON'T WANT TO LISTEN.

I like your ice cream story, but I have another one.

Imagine you were a teen who lived at home with their mum, and she moved her boyfriend in. You didn't like his behaviour, he got favoured over you, and his views/ culture did not align with yours. He was a bit physical, and he made lewd remarks. You mentioned it to your mum and you were told to suck it up, and that is his culture. You spent the next few years trying to broach the subject with her, but she wouldn't listen and then blamed you.

One day you came home and said you'd spoken to your dad, and he said you could go live with him, and you were moving out. Your mum was shocked and upset and didn't see it coming. She blamed you for blindsiding her, and being prejudice against her BF and called you a racist. You leave.

This is how I feel. No one is listening to me, or people like me, so I can either do nothing, or make them listen by joining what is hopefully a lot of other people to finally make them listen.

Edited

⬆️ this 💯

Can't be said clearer
Can't be said enough

I don't want to live in the dystopian, lawless, boundary free world the Global Left are peddling.
Utopia is a pie-in-the-sky stupidity, so it follows that anyone who votes for it is pie-in-the-sky stupid.

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 13:46

NormalAuntFanny · 06/05/2026 13:01

I enjoyed your post @BreezyMoose and mostly agree with it.

It's interesting that a lot of the comments (if you can call astroturfing comments) are either 'u ok hun because I can't read' kind or the insistence it's LLM generated and of course it's all the EU's fault.

Presumably Reform has it's quota of Mumsnet workers beavering away.

I'm inclined to agree.

And whilst I do genuinely doubt that Mumsnet is thus infected, social media is awash with the clamour of bot accounts that are pro-Reform. That noise will die back very, very sharply after the locals have closed.

As to MN, I'm inclined to agree with your first assertion, that the majority of contrary posts are by those who either can't - or are disinclined - to read my opening post, which is intellectually lazy but so frequently the case on most online fora, not just MN, or they are they are feeble attempts to disregard what's been written on the assumption that "it's AI" or "ChatGPT". That excuse is equally intellectually lazy, but seems to be alarmingly common these days when faced with a coherent, lengthy piece of text.

Which, I'd say, is arguably part of the problem. We have been so assaulted, so consistently, by generated garbage on our various social accounts that many people - quite understandably - are now triggered into manufactured outrage and find it difficult to critically look at the facts.
Not to get too tin-foil hat wearing, I'd suggest that that is precisely the position many in the political spectrum want us in; easily complaint, simple to bait, and fighting one another rather than those we should be unified in our opposition to.

But then, I imagine somebody will be along shortly to claim this post is all AI generated... 🙄

OP posts:
coulditbeme2323 · 06/05/2026 13:47

AntiRacistFella · 06/05/2026 13:45

The US 2024 voting split was much closer than you suggest: Donald Trump received 77,303,568 votes (49.8%) while Kamala Harris garnered 75,009,233 votes (48.3%).

Number of votes is not relevant is it.

1dayatatime · 06/05/2026 13:52

I would vote Conservative over Labour, Labour over Reform and Reform over Green and would definitely vote tactically.

I deliberately missed out LibDems as I have no idea what their policies are other than "not being the other guys".

CreativeGreen · 06/05/2026 13:57

Imagine you were a teen who lived at home with their mum, and she moved her boyfriend in. You didn't like his behaviour, he got favoured over you, and his views/ culture did not align with yours. He was a bit physical, and he made lewd remarks

Are you saying that's what immigrants and refugees all do?

AntiRacistFella · 06/05/2026 14:02

coulditbeme2323 · 06/05/2026 13:47

Number of votes is not relevant is it.

Not to the US's system, but I think the results show a very divided country, not any kind of overwhelming support for MAGA & Trump.