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Politics

Why do Remainers support being in the EU when Brits are not compatible with Europeans?

192 replies

molanasulfi · 22/03/2026 08:29

Think of Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
These are all former British colonies in which people of British descent have long been socially, culturally, politically, economically dominant.

Because of the fact that the dominant social group in those countries was of British descent that meant that they spoke English, had similar political and judicial traditions to the UK, viewed British history like the Tudors and the Stuarts as "their history", and felt loyalty and amity with the UK.

But, when non-British European migration started happening to those countries post-WW2 and later Asian, African and Middle Eastern migration, things started to change.
Greek, Polish, Norwegian, Italian, Hungarian, German immigrants and their kids in Canada in the 1950s/60s etc didn't feel the same way about Britain that people of British descent did. They were more invested in their own homelands. They may have spoken English, but they wouldn't call the UK the "mother country" or feel loyalty towards it or view British history as "theirs"; rather they'd have been likely to transmit historical grievances against Britain from their ethnic homeland to Canada. An example is how many Italian and Ukrainian-Canadians in the 1960s were demanding that Canada change its national flag from the old Red Ensign flag which had the Union Jack in the corner because they didn't identify with the UK whereas most British-origin Canadians supported the old flag because they did.

Similarly, French-Canadians were demanding bilingualism in Canada and conducing terrorist actions like blowing up mailboxes which had the word "Royal" on as well as demanding the abolition of the monarchy in Canada since they didn't identify with Britain.

In Australia and New Zealand, people of Irish descent have long been the most ardent republicans since they don't feel an attachment to the UK. And, white people of non-British descent like those of Dutch and Greek descent have also been republicans, tend to be the ones most strongly in favour of Australia changing its national flag to remove the Union Jack, and tend to have little care for the UK. This is because they are not of British descent so feel no attachment to it.

This fundamentally goes to show that blood is thicker than water.
Australia, Canada and New Zealand were only loyal to Britain and only strongly identified with it because people of British descent dominated those societies and because they are "blood" relations of British people. By contrast, continental Europeans are generally indifferent to, if not hostile to Britain, since they are not "blood" as proven by the actions of their diasporas like Greek-Australians demanding Britain gives the Elgin Marbles to Greece, thus showing a pro-Greek not pro-British stance whereas an Anglo-Australian would likely favour Britain; or a Cypriot-Canadian demanding that Britain evacuate its bases on Cyprus, thus favouring the Cypriot/Greek position rather than the British one as an Anglo-Canadian may be inclined to do.

Think also about the Dutch settlers in Soutb Africa causing issues. Their disdain for Britain led them to fight the Boer Wars and push for a South African Republic in 1961.

So, given all of that, why would you want to be part of the EU, which is not just a "trade zone" but an attempt to forge a European superstate? Continental Europeans, as demonstrated by the behaviour of their diasporas in Anglosphere nations, are not "blood" or loyal to Britain in the way people of British ancestry are? They are inclined to follow their own biases and cultures and traditions, which often are opposed to the UK, because they are not "us".
They are and their diasporas are either indifferent, or hostile; but they are definitely not loyal.

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 22/03/2026 15:53

Crikeyalmighty · 22/03/2026 15:41

Actually I had missed that she said 37 million!! Ha, ha - no!! the fact the OP is totally avoiding is- has the UK benefitted massively from it ? - no it hasn’t, quite the opposite, and please don’t say ‘that’s because it wasn’t done correctly - ‘ we are out of the EU, don’t have a single market or customs union and hence it’s exactly as Brexiteers asked for - those who said, ‘well I just wanted to get rid of freedom of moment ( which was both ways) that option was not on the ballot paper - and then there are those who say ‘well now we can trade with xyz’ etc and open markets - businesses always could!! just depends if they had an interested market in xyz- it’s very different if you are selling handbags or makeup to if you are selling music/ TV/certain services/ cultural things and all we have done is put barriers into selling into and out of the EU that has made goods in and out more expensive, requires logistical challenges and to be frank means we are now on the same footing and status within the EU (both for movement and goods ) as many third world country’s.

Edited

Getting numbers and units confused is very much a problem that "AI" wranglers are struggling with at the moment

It’s a classic case of "brilliant but clueless." LLMs are essentially world-class pattern matchers, not calculators. They can predict that "kilometers" usually follows a certain number in a sentence about driving, but they don't actually feel the weight of a kilogram or the distance of a mile.
The struggle usually boils down to three things:

  1. Tokenization: Models often break numbers into weird fragments (like "12" and "345" for 12,345), which can scramble the logic before the "thinking" even starts.
  2. Lack of Grounding: To an AI, "500°C" and "500°F" are just strings of text. It doesn't inherently know one will melt a lead pipe and the other will just bake a pizza.
  3. The "Average" Trap: If the training data contains a mix of metric and imperial units for the same topic, the model might hallucinate a "middle ground" number that is physically impossible.
This is why RAG (retrieving facts) and Python tool use (letting the AI write code to do the math) have become the standard workarounds. Are you seeing these hallucinations more with unit conversions, or is the AI just pulling random scales out of thin air?
catipuss · 22/03/2026 16:01

No idea what any of that has to do with the EU.

The EU has it's own problems, it's not only the UK that has them. We still have close links with Europe it's not like we moved the country! We have close links with countries in Europe outside the EU as well and with the ex colonies, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, etc, etc. The EU was a two edged sword for us good for some things, but a huge extra layer of bureaucracy getting agreement between all the Countries was difficult and wanting those decisions to be good for the UK in wanting to preserve it's links to other Countries and things like common monetary policies was more difficult. We could do the whole voting thing again, would the result be different?

Crikeyalmighty · 22/03/2026 16:08

SerendipityJane · 22/03/2026 15:53

Getting numbers and units confused is very much a problem that "AI" wranglers are struggling with at the moment

It’s a classic case of "brilliant but clueless." LLMs are essentially world-class pattern matchers, not calculators. They can predict that "kilometers" usually follows a certain number in a sentence about driving, but they don't actually feel the weight of a kilogram or the distance of a mile.
The struggle usually boils down to three things:

  1. Tokenization: Models often break numbers into weird fragments (like "12" and "345" for 12,345), which can scramble the logic before the "thinking" even starts.
  2. Lack of Grounding: To an AI, "500°C" and "500°F" are just strings of text. It doesn't inherently know one will melt a lead pipe and the other will just bake a pizza.
  3. The "Average" Trap: If the training data contains a mix of metric and imperial units for the same topic, the model might hallucinate a "middle ground" number that is physically impossible.
This is why RAG (retrieving facts) and Python tool use (letting the AI write code to do the math) have become the standard workarounds. Are you seeing these hallucinations more with unit conversions, or is the AI just pulling random scales out of thin air?

That’s the thing with AI isn’t it, if we all basically wrote articles and published them saying the moon was made of Swiss cheese- the AI version of it we click on it would say ‘many say the moon is made of Swiss cheese’

SerendipityJane · 22/03/2026 16:12

Crikeyalmighty · 22/03/2026 16:08

That’s the thing with AI isn’t it, if we all basically wrote articles and published them saying the moon was made of Swiss cheese- the AI version of it we click on it would say ‘many say the moon is made of Swiss cheese’

The only way "AI" can look like it works is when it marks it's own homework.

Crikeyalmighty · 22/03/2026 16:15

SerendipityJane · 22/03/2026 16:12

The only way "AI" can look like it works is when it marks it's own homework.

Exactly!! And it’s extremely vulnerable to a ton of manipulation rather than individual logical thought

mugglewump · 22/03/2026 16:20

I have never read so much toss in all my life!

We are Europeans because we live in Europe.

Our descendents are Normans from France, Angles, Saxons and Jutes from the Benelux countries and Vikings from Scandinavia.

We are of the same mindset as Europeans because we share DNA. We are all Europeans.

But if you think you have more in common with our deported criminals in Australasia, then I wonder what kind of people are in your family tree.

Do not mistake a common language with common mindset.

dwordle · 22/03/2026 16:21

It would be a catastrophic disaster if the UK left standardisation for imperial.....only three countries in the world use imperial the rest use SI units.

The UKs biggest trading partners are in the EU, can you imagine the cost to business if we had to make products compatible with both systems. It would impact everything....and it would bankrupt us within week.

America has the advantage of it's domestic market and the fact it will probably never change to the SI system because of the cost. The UK isn't in that position.

The thing that annoys me about the leave camp was the argument was never honest. Everything about it was based on lies. It's the craving of a colonial past that is infuriating....it was an awful period for the colonies and the British people. It was great for the aristocrats and the upper class but for working people it was an awful time.

SerendipityJane · 22/03/2026 16:27

It would be a catastrophic disaster if the UK left standardisation for imperial.

No one who mattered made a peep when the JRM big bollocks "let's all go Imperial" project was killed off. Suggesting a lot of people even older than I am know what a fucking metre is.

Crikeyalmighty · 22/03/2026 16:43

mugglewump · 22/03/2026 16:20

I have never read so much toss in all my life!

We are Europeans because we live in Europe.

Our descendents are Normans from France, Angles, Saxons and Jutes from the Benelux countries and Vikings from Scandinavia.

We are of the same mindset as Europeans because we share DNA. We are all Europeans.

But if you think you have more in common with our deported criminals in Australasia, then I wonder what kind of people are in your family tree.

Do not mistake a common language with common mindset.

Indeed - and how many Americans go on about their Italian/Irish/german roots too - most of em!!

catipuss · 22/03/2026 20:27

mugglewump · 22/03/2026 16:20

I have never read so much toss in all my life!

We are Europeans because we live in Europe.

Our descendents are Normans from France, Angles, Saxons and Jutes from the Benelux countries and Vikings from Scandinavia.

We are of the same mindset as Europeans because we share DNA. We are all Europeans.

But if you think you have more in common with our deported criminals in Australasia, then I wonder what kind of people are in your family tree.

Do not mistake a common language with common mindset.

Or a common continent for a common mind set.

A lot more than criminals went to Australia many people went there for a better life, whether they all got it is another matter, much the same as those that went to the US and other countries, or even those that more recently went to Europe for some it worked for some it didn't.

Mimimayhem18 · 22/03/2026 20:42

Grandparents are German and Norwegian
Parents are German and Scottish
I live in England and my husband is Slovak
I am British and a European by basic geography.
Your post is pot stirring nonsense and in any case there are few purely 100% English people (from generations back) in the UK we have historically as you have noted had many British colonies and that’s had made us a more diverse culture as people have married in and had children etc.
I don’t think it’s a bad thing and I feel a bit sorry for you if that’s your narrow view on the world.

MrsTerryPratchett · 22/03/2026 20:55

molanasulfi · 22/03/2026 09:55

I like to imagine the Anglosphere (Americans, Canadians and Australians of British ancestry) fully supporting Britain in its struggle against the EU and ganging up on it with boycotts, travel bans and trade sanctions to show that Britain's family will defeat the EU if they dare to try it. Then how would the EU feel?

I was living in Canada during the run up to Brexit. The general mood? WTAF are your moronic country folk thinking?

Of course my Canadian friends were a mixture of people whose ancestors were indigenous, Spanish, Ukrainian, Yemeni, Scottish, Salvadoran, Brazilian, need I go on?

Top fact, Canada has a larger proportion of Sikh people than India. Biggest diaspora of Ukrainian people outside Russia and Ukraine. Loads of indigenous languages. It’s not all tea and crumpets. Often considered Nordic in outlook.

molanasulfi · 22/03/2026 21:36

dwordle · 22/03/2026 16:21

It would be a catastrophic disaster if the UK left standardisation for imperial.....only three countries in the world use imperial the rest use SI units.

The UKs biggest trading partners are in the EU, can you imagine the cost to business if we had to make products compatible with both systems. It would impact everything....and it would bankrupt us within week.

America has the advantage of it's domestic market and the fact it will probably never change to the SI system because of the cost. The UK isn't in that position.

The thing that annoys me about the leave camp was the argument was never honest. Everything about it was based on lies. It's the craving of a colonial past that is infuriating....it was an awful period for the colonies and the British people. It was great for the aristocrats and the upper class but for working people it was an awful time.

You just contradicted yourself.

Criticising British craving for the colonial past while recognising America is powerful and so self-sufficient because of its size and internal market.

Well, guess what?

America is only so large because it conquered and stole and colonised that land and wasn't filled with self-hating, guardian-reading leftists who demanded decolonisation and expected the USA to give away all that land.

China is only so powerful due it size, which is due to it annexing land like Tibet and never giving it up.

So, leftists simultaneously decry British colonialism and want to give all the colonies away, and also want to give any overseas territories that currently exist away too like Chagos as 'colonial relics' then act shocked that Britain is now 'too small to go it alone' when they were advocating for it to be stripped of its strength in the first place and not similarly demanding, say, Russia give all land it colonised like Siberia or America give away Texas and California or China give up Tibet etc.

OP posts:
molanasulfi · 22/03/2026 21:37

MrsTerryPratchett · 22/03/2026 20:55

I was living in Canada during the run up to Brexit. The general mood? WTAF are your moronic country folk thinking?

Of course my Canadian friends were a mixture of people whose ancestors were indigenous, Spanish, Ukrainian, Yemeni, Scottish, Salvadoran, Brazilian, need I go on?

Top fact, Canada has a larger proportion of Sikh people than India. Biggest diaspora of Ukrainian people outside Russia and Ukraine. Loads of indigenous languages. It’s not all tea and crumpets. Often considered Nordic in outlook.

That's the whole problem.

OP posts:
BreakingBroken · 22/03/2026 21:51

I’m not understanding your problem with Canada?
It’s still a predominantly white country with many roots and traditions to the UK (industries workplace culture laws and expectations), still many who claim British, Scottish, Irish ancestry along with French ancestry from 200+ yrs ago.

PiMCA · 22/03/2026 22:29

molanasulfi · 22/03/2026 21:36

You just contradicted yourself.

Criticising British craving for the colonial past while recognising America is powerful and so self-sufficient because of its size and internal market.

Well, guess what?

America is only so large because it conquered and stole and colonised that land and wasn't filled with self-hating, guardian-reading leftists who demanded decolonisation and expected the USA to give away all that land.

China is only so powerful due it size, which is due to it annexing land like Tibet and never giving it up.

So, leftists simultaneously decry British colonialism and want to give all the colonies away, and also want to give any overseas territories that currently exist away too like Chagos as 'colonial relics' then act shocked that Britain is now 'too small to go it alone' when they were advocating for it to be stripped of its strength in the first place and not similarly demanding, say, Russia give all land it colonised like Siberia or America give away Texas and California or China give up Tibet etc.

I'm a leftist and I'm not "shocked that Britain is now 'too small to go it alone' " I don't want us to go it alone, I wanted us to do it as a part of the EU! We should form mutually beneficial consensual alliances, not force colonial rule!

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/03/2026 00:38

molanasulfi · 22/03/2026 21:37

That's the whole problem.

Why is that a problem?

Unless you’re a xenophobe or racist.

Aur0raAustralis · 23/03/2026 03:00

molanasulfi · 22/03/2026 09:55

I like to imagine the Anglosphere (Americans, Canadians and Australians of British ancestry) fully supporting Britain in its struggle against the EU and ganging up on it with boycotts, travel bans and trade sanctions to show that Britain's family will defeat the EU if they dare to try it. Then how would the EU feel?

And risk losing our place in Eurovision? Never!

(Australian here.)

Bewareofstepfords · 23/03/2026 03:09

MrTiddlesTheCat · 22/03/2026 08:52

I'm British and think the Elgin marbles should be returned.

Same here, twice over.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 23/03/2026 06:38

molanasulfi · 22/03/2026 21:36

You just contradicted yourself.

Criticising British craving for the colonial past while recognising America is powerful and so self-sufficient because of its size and internal market.

Well, guess what?

America is only so large because it conquered and stole and colonised that land and wasn't filled with self-hating, guardian-reading leftists who demanded decolonisation and expected the USA to give away all that land.

China is only so powerful due it size, which is due to it annexing land like Tibet and never giving it up.

So, leftists simultaneously decry British colonialism and want to give all the colonies away, and also want to give any overseas territories that currently exist away too like Chagos as 'colonial relics' then act shocked that Britain is now 'too small to go it alone' when they were advocating for it to be stripped of its strength in the first place and not similarly demanding, say, Russia give all land it colonised like Siberia or America give away Texas and California or China give up Tibet etc.

There is no contradiction.

Recognising that the US exists because of the legacy of colonialism, and acknowledging its power, doesn't mean that anyone is craving our colonial past.

Many of us are quite happy to accept that Britain is a small island that does best when it works collaboratively with its neighbours. Yes, the old empire was economically advantageous as it allowed us to exploit and rob other nations, but not everyone is motivated simply by greed and self interest. Colonialism was morally repugnant and most people recognise that now.

I can recognise that stealing from other people might make me very wealthy while also understanding that it would be morally wrong for me to do that and choosing instead to live a more modest lifestyle that I can provide for myself.

And if that makes me a self-hating guardian-reading leftist, so be it. Better that than a jingoistic twat with no moral compass and an ill-informed hankering for our colonial past.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 23/03/2026 06:39

molanasulfi · 22/03/2026 21:37

That's the whole problem.

But most people don't see it as a problem. Because most people don't look at the world through your warped perspective.

EwwPeople · 23/03/2026 06:45

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/03/2026 00:38

Why is that a problem?

Unless you’re a xenophobe or racist.

Not enough Brit descendants to defend the mother country. Or something .

Sunshineandgrapefruit · 23/03/2026 06:50

Yup. British, Irish and European here. Not culturally different at all. Never felt only culturally British and never will. If anything Brexit made me feel more European.

TooManyCupsAndMugs · 23/03/2026 06:52

Culturally and politically, the British have far more in common than Europeans than the Americans (no guns, shared ideas on healthcare, social security and work). And ethnically, we are a mixture of German, French, Scandinavian etc due to immigration over many years.

LilyCanna · 23/03/2026 07:24

I assumed the OP was a plop and run one off post just to stir people up. But I see they’ve come back to expand on their view that the rightful role of Canada, Australia and NZ is as loyal vassals of ‘the mother country’, “fully supporting Britain in its struggle against the EU and ganging up on it [the EU] with boycotts, travel bans and trade sanctions”, in revenge for God knows what imagined slight - not being British? The EU not being humble enough in Brexit negotiations?
And apparently it’s only because of non-British immigration that these countries aren’t all thrilled to play this subservient role. That and they have been “indoctrinated by anti British nationalism” teaching the peasants ideas above their station since the 1960s.
Good trolling but try and make it less insane next time and people might believe it.