Why would mumsnet leftists vote Green over reform?

[Wizeman]

Now I have your attention

What are the substantive political reasons for voting for the Green Party over Reform UK?

Please avoid responses based on personality or tone (e.g., claims that one leader is “nicer” than the other). Instead, I am interested in clear policy-based arguments and ideological reasoning.
Reform UK is led by Nigel Farage, a businessman with a long-standing role in national politics. The Green Party is currently led by Zak Polanski, whose professional background includes work in theatre and as a hypnotist.

With that in mind, I would welcome serious explanations focused on policy positions, governance approach, economic strategy, and long-term outcomes, rather than personal character assessments.

Like who? And trade for what? We had free trade agreements already with countries outside of the EU, the only things we couldn't buy were things that were deemed harmful to our health, like bleached, US chicken, or things deemed harmful to EU industries.

I’ll leave this here:

Brexit was always going to be a massive drag on the economy, and the best that can be delivered is damage limitation.

Brexit, Reform and the gener cult of Farage is the extreme end of identity politics "we don't care how poor it makes us, so long as we feel British enough we'll be happy", with an added dose of "fuck the establishment".

I'm sure that sounds dreadfully sneery but we should also recognize that, if society was more equitable and people thought they actually had anything to lose, they wouldn't be so willing to torch the country.

If you believe that throwing out token niceties overrides your arrogant and patronising tone then you are mistaken. You don’t come accountable as well mannered in the slightest but since you chucked in a thank you… you’re very welcome buddy, I hope you will be improved by thinking about how you let yourself down in your posts. Best of luck in your exams!

Well, that assumes Farage just does that... he may do a whole lot more, as he would, if polls are to be believed, be heading up a Reform Govt, Polanski would be in a coalition, unable to do all he might wish.

My concerns over Farage are his Russian links and his racism, he is the Oswald Mosely of our time.

The Greens need an economic plan that doesn’t wholly rely on wealth taxes.

Even if it did raise as much as the Greens say (always debatable with new taxes) they are tricky to administer and may take time to get going. If it were not as successful as hoped, the Greens would need a back up plan. A wealth tax is not a quick fix like a rise in income tax.

I think the Greens love it because it’s popular with voters (even when asked in a poll if it wouldn’t raise any revenue, some people are still in favour showing a dislike of rich people) and it’s hard to argue down when it hasn’t been shown to have failed.

If this NATO/Trump/Russia thing continues as it appears to be, then a wealth tax is the least of our worries.

Most of our weapons systems are from the USA, Trident, F35's... if we enter a trade war and possibly even worse... stopping US investment, closing US bases, US stopping intel, military hardware... then we will have to re arm on a scale not seen in 90 years.

Not being in the EU, is also a huge disadvantage for us too, they have, collectively, some power on tariffs, we have none.

This has the "potential" to make the GFC seem like a small economic hiccup.

Better hope that the wider Republican party/Supreme court can pull Trump back from all of this.

And if none of that happens, would the Green’s economic policy still make sense?

Much of what i've suggested is already happening... Trump has no interest in Ukraine, so Europe is going to have to fund/supply the Ukrainians.

Thats before we even get to Greenland and NATO.

We are all going to have to put up with far higher taxes, inc wealth taxes, so in that regard, the Greens are ahead of the curve, they'll just be spent on different things.

5% on defence, is around an extra 80bn, not in 5 or 10 years but needed right now.

The Greens won’t be able to collect what they imagine via a wealth tax, even if they got it through parliament. I worry that people would vote for something never before tried in the UK and without a credible alternative if it didn’t work.

Neither Greens nor Reform have credible economic policies. Let’s hope that changes before the election.

The Greens won’t be able to collect what they imagine via a wealth tax, even if they got it through parliament.

Why not?

We had control before. We could vote in MEPs and represent ourselves.

Look how Farage squandered the opportunity to control when he was an MEP. Worst attendance record bar one. Only attended one meeting of the fisheries committee out of 40 when the common fishing policy was being agreed.

He didn't want control when he had it.
He only wants to moan and rail and blame.

The man's a waster.

If you have a group of countries who are doing well as a whole it is absolutely obvious that some of those individual nations are doing well - other wise the sum of the whole would not = doing well. Honestly - why are you banging away with this nonsense?

The standard of your grammar, spelling and writing varies so greatly between posts. 🤔

We obviously can't because we aren't.

OK the Green wealth tax is as follows:

1% on net wealth over £10 million; 2% on wealth over £1 billion.

It won't work for the following reasons:
Accurately valuing diverse assets like private businesses, art, or complex holdings annually is extremely difficult and costly.
Wealthy individuals might move their assets or themselves to countries without such taxes, reducing the tax base.
Taxing wealth discourages saving and investment, potentially harming economic growth, as capital can lose value, and is already taxed at corporate levels.
Implementing it would require a massive, expensive bureaucracy for valuation, collection, and legal challenges.
Similar taxes in other countries have often generated far less revenue than projected due to avoidance and implementation issues.
It unfairly taxes investments that involve risk and time, unlike regular earned income.

Greens will crash the property market. Leading to millions in negative equity.

Whilst I get that this would be incredibly painful for people with mortgages, and I don't think we should be aiming for this, something needs to happen to the property market. Maybe not something as extreme as leaving millions with negative equity, but anything that truly fixes it for the millions left with insecure housing is going to hurt homeowners and LL.

I'd like to hope something would be put in place to minimise the impact on homeowners, but things cannot carry on as they are. The bubble needs to burst, and if the Greens are brave enough to be the ones to pop it, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

Very mutch so. Your right 😉

Because they are deluded and gullible and want big corporations to make multi millions with the green agenda.

Because data from other countries tells us so. Many European countries which previously had wealth taxes have largely abolished or scaled them back due to various challenges including implementation and administration.

Countries like Norway and Switzerland still have them, but they generate modest revenues.

The idea that a wealth tax could single handedly pay for everything the Greens want to do is naive. That’s why they need a back up plan.

I’ve not once heard Polanski explain how it would actually work. He doesn’t need to. Everyone claps as soon as he says the words and if you try to suggest such a tax has flaws, no one wants to hear it.

https://www.brusselsreport.eu/2024/09/11/the-failure-of-norways-wealth-tax-hike-as-a-warning-signal/

My point is given what we are seeing with the USA, NATO and Ukraine, wealth taxes along with taxes for the rest of us, across Europe and beyond, are going to rise.
As for people, leaving to avoid, that'll stop... remember, Exch Controls only ended in 1979, along with taxes in the 80% plus range.

We could and i hope it doesn't happen, be going into a sustained period of rearmament... paid for via taxation.

TBH, thats a far more likely scenario that Polanski becoming PM.

A bit of a misleading article headline...

Wealthy Norwegians left, not because of a very modest rise in their WT but because a substantial hike in Dividend taxes.

In 2025, a record 16,500 millionaires left the UK, the highest net outflow for any country, driven by higher taxes.
If the Greens come in and raise taxes on them the exodus will continue and you loose top tax payers and end up with the burden of tax falling more to the middle taxpayers.

The Laffer Curve is the relationship between tax rates and tax revenue. The basic idea is that there is a tax rate between 0% and 100% that maximizes government revenue.We have already maxed the amount collected and now overtaxing is meaning collection is decreasing. The Greens will continue this as for them it's ideological.

They want to abolish landlords, that is private renting. This is in their manifesto and they would probably increase rates and tax burdens on landlords to achieve it.

They want to build massive amounts of public housing so current renters will be moved to a council run flat.

They think that the immegration chrisis will be solved by legalising it and so anyone who comes in will be legal and believe they should be offered a home.

Conversely, one bad apple will spoil the whole barrel. If you want to save that barrel you need to throw that bad apple away!