Reform plans to scrap indefinite leave to remain for migrants

[Twiglets1]

BBC report following Farage's press conference this afternoon:

Reform UK has announced it would abolish the right of migrants to qualify for permanent settlement in the UK after five years, if the party wins the next election.

Under the plans, Reform would abolish the right of migrants to apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) - which gives migrants rights and access to benefits - and reapply for new visas with tougher rules.

Reform will also unveil plans to bar anyone other than British citizens from accessing welfare. The party claims their plans would save £234bn over several decades.

Reform said it would replace ILR with visas that force migrants to reapply every five years. That includes hundreds of thousands of migrants currently in the UK.
Applicants would also have to meet certain criteria, including a higher salary threshold and standard of English.

The announcement launches Reform's fresh assault on what they brand the "Boriswave" - 3.8 million people who entered the UK after Brexit under looser rules brought in by Boris Johnson's administration.

Speaking at a press conference, Reform UK leader Nigel Farage said the "main reason" for the policy was to "wake everybody up to the Boris wave".

Hundreds of thousands of these migrants, who have come to the UK since 2021, will soon qualify for permanent residence under the ILR scheme.

Reform said the changes would not apply to EU nationals whose settled status is protected under the European Union Withdrawal Agreement, who make up the majority of benefit claimants by people with ILR.

But EU nationals not benefiting from the provisions of the Withdrawal Agreement will be subject to the new system.

Reform will also introduce a new scheme called Acute Skills Shortage Visas (ASSV) for jobs in crisis. Under the scheme, firms can hire one worker from abroad only if they train one at home.

Reform will also raise the average wait for UK citizenship from six years to seven.

Reform say their policy is designed to bring Britain into line with other countries such as the US and United Arab Emirates (UAE) and save the UK more than £234bn over what it calls the "lifetime of the average migrant".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c930xypxpqpo

Not just that, but the cost benefit analysis is missing about how much it would cost the UK to have people living here who cant be supported to live a stable, engaged, educated life. No proper recourse means social isolation, worse physical and MH, higher crime, homelessness, lack of education stability for the children (due to moving around a lot) so worse outcomes for children who are very likely to remain in the UK and need to contribute to the work force. Where i sthe investment in the UK to come from, from those people if they're having to think very short term.

I suppose Reform voters would answer that by saying they shouldnt be here anyway

I also suppose the people they are talking about are asylum seekers rather than a teacher relocating from France or Australia.

You lost me now.

Farage made the claim, so he must have the sources for that. Where is he basing his assumptions on?

Foreign pensioners are a drop in the bucket. I mean British pensioners - they are a by far the biggest draw on the public purse, and biggest users of the NHS.

If your immigrant parent had happened to have a temporary period of unemployment around the time of the 5 year visa renewal - that Mr Farage has stated he would impose on all of those without UK citizenship - and had, therefore, been deported do you think this would have improved your childhood?

Definitely! My parent comes from a brilliant country.

Most people on benefits, including migrants are on top up benefits due to low wages and claiming the housing element of UC due to high rents.

Most people on benefits are in work.

Hahaaa of course, it someone else’s problem to provide the data to show that Farage’s policies stack up on costs and economics! Can’t expect him to have used the copious data that’s published regularly by all Government departments, the OBR and in numerous other economic studies to actually come up with policies that aren’t based purely on his hubris after an evening in the boozer. You’re being so unfair! Or something.

The point is that the net taker versus net contributor narrative is an old political trick which starts on foreigners but also gets extended to more vulnerable groups. The idea of welfare reform and disability was also raised. These are usually entry points for cuts.

The point about a pensioner with ILR being subject to this policy is not about being a foreigner. It will be framed as to whether you contributed. I do not think Farage will stop at “British get benefits”. It will be “British who contributed” get some benefits.

I want to know what happens to my pension. I have worked more years in the UK than in my home country, so I fully expect to get my UK pension once I’m ‘deported’. I contributed to the system and there is no way in hell I’m going to be without a pension. That’s the equivalent of theft as far as I’m concerned. I’m sure there are many other ILRs who are thinking this as well. My husband is English and has worked since the age of 16. However, instead of us spending our pensions in the UK, we will be spending in my home country.

What do they expect people to do once they get to a certain age? Keep renewing these visas which will probably cost £££ until they die? I have zero desire to be British. I have a nationality. We paid for me to come here, I followed the rules, worked, paid taxes, never claimed benefits - not even child benefits. I think the only thing I ever got was the £500 Labour gave newborns and free school dinners for a couple of years but I supposed I paid for that through my taxes. I feel like the 20 years I have contributed to the UK no longer matters because ‘I’m a foreigner’. It’s an absolute horrible feeling.

I see. So you believe that one of your parents being deported would have improved your life. Do you not like your parent much? Many immigrants come from brilliant countries but - unlike you it seems - quite like living in the same country as their spouses and children and don’t particularly want to be dragged out of their homes and put on a flight back to a country that they no longer live in, however brilliant it is.

Presumably your parent didn’t want to move back to their country of origin otherwise they’d have done so, so even if you’d have welcomed them being dragged out of the family home by immigration police I can’t imagine they’d have enjoyed the experience.

Yes you will get your pension even if you leave the country. Unless you came here in the Boris Wave.

For goodness sake! The country is absolutely not on the brink of bankruptcy!

We are a sovereign nation with our own fiat currency and the 6th largest economy in the world.

Despite the last 14 years of Tory propaganda about there being no money which has solely been in order to justify their ideologically driven austerity agenda, there is absolutely no risk of the country going bankrupt any time soon.

It could definitely become a possibility, however, if we start to get rid of the immigrants, can't fill essential roles and don't have enough working age tax payers to support an increasingly aging population.

My parent has moved back.

Would you consider and be able to get dual nationality?

I know you have "zero desire to be British" but you've lived here a long time and it would be a way to not have to renew the visa every 5 years ....if Reform get in.

The country has a vast growing and unsustainable benefits Bill that the shrinking private sector is becoming unable to sustain. We aren't guaranteed to be a major economy for all time..plenty of countries go bust. All the signs are there that we may be one of those. Theres highly likely to be a fiscal crisis in the next year or so. Rachel Reeves has no idea what to do to solve it. And yet Labour will not allow any benefits savings however tiny to be made. So there's not much to be done apart from wait for 2029.

Edit QE has caused a lot of the world's economic problems anyway! So that's not the best idea...

We do have a problem and the increased borrowing and debt servicing with Labour isn’t helping.

Its a suggestion from someone who will never be in any form of government or leadership of the country. Its not going to happen

I think you probably misread that persons post

I thought they were saying if their parent was deported, they would have grown up in their parents' home country instead of here and it would have improved their life/childhood because its a great country.

Yes, I got the point and I illustrated it.

It’s disgusting and honestly, I don’t believe most people in the UK agree with these disgraceful and xenophobic policies. If Farage and his nasty group of xenophobes, woman beaters, violent criminals, and fraudsters end up forming a Government it will be a shame on our country.

Can you imagine it, them hauling 80 or 90 year olds in for 5 yearly visa renewal interviews? If their memory starts to go or they develop dementia and they can’t speak coherently during the language test then deportation awaits, even if they’ve spent their whole working life here paying UK tax. If their private pensions have run out so their income drops too low for the visa requirements, along will come Reforms immigration enforcement teams to haul them out of care homes to be deported. The whole proposal is beyond absurd and only those seriously lacking in brain capacity would think it workable, aside from how vile it is.

No, they wouldn’t have been deported as a child when only one of their parents was an immigrant and the children are British citizens, born and settled here: only their immigrant parent would have been deported per Farage’s new policy. This poster stated that having one of their parents deported would have improved their childhood. Bizarre.

If their contention is that it would have been better for the entire family to move to the other parent’s country then presumably their parents would have chosen to do that without the need for the immigrant parent - who had decided to move to the UK and have children in the UK with a UK citizen spouse - being dragged out of the family home by immigration officers and forcibly put on a place back to their country of origin.

For those of you who think this is a great policy, are you hoping that property and assets will be seized at deportation and you’ll get them yourselves?

So, please come here. Spend thousands on the visa application. Work on a high paying job for 5 years, 10, 15.... paying the coresponding taxes. Pay for your own health insurance, and any education you need or want. Then bugger off. No pension. And we do not want to pay for your old age healthcare.
That is how it sounds like it could be acceptable to be an immigrant.
But I have seen similar happening. And taxes had to be paid back to the immigrant at the time of leave. So not so good.

And?

How is that comparable to being forcibly deported away from your home, spouse and children?

I was rather assuming, on the basis this a scenario entirely made up by you, that you would allow me to go with my parents? Would that be OK? It's many years ago since I was a child but I would probably have preferred that to staying here alone like Olivia Twist.