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Politics

The Irish Potato Famine

402 replies

MsAmerica · 05/08/2025 03:23

This would have been better in a history forum, but failing that, I'll try Politics. Interesting article - a book review, really.

What Made the Irish Famine So Deadly
The Great Hunger was a modern event, shaped by the belief that the poor are the authors of their own misery and that the market must be obeyed at all costs.
By Fintan O’Toole

There have been, in absolute terms, many deadlier famines, but as Amartya Sen, the eminent Indian scholar of the subject, concluded, in “no other famine in the world [was] the proportion of people killed . . . as large as in the Irish famines in the 1840s.” The pathogen that caused it was a fungus-like water mold called Phytophthora infestans. Its effect on the potato gives “Rot,” a vigorous and engaging new study of the Irish famine by the historian Padraic X. Scanlan, its title. The blight began to infect the crop across much of western and northern Europe in the summer of 1845. In the Netherlands, about sixty thousand people died in the consequent famine—a terrible loss, but a fraction of the mortality rate in Ireland. It is, oddly, easier to form a mental picture of what it might have been like to witness the Dutch tragedy than to truly convey the magnitude of the suffering in Ireland...

Even before the potato blight, there was a degree of hunger among the Irish rural underclass that seemed like an ugly remnant of a receding past. In 1837, two years after Alexis de Tocqueville published the first volume of “Democracy in America,” his lifelong collaborator, Gustave de Beaumont, went to Ireland, a country the two men had previously visited together. The book de Beaumont produced in 1839, “L’Irlande: Sociale, Politique et Religieuse,” was a grim companion piece to his friend’s largely optimistic vision of the future that was taking shape on the far side of the Atlantic. De Beaumont, a grandson by marriage of the Marquis de Lafayette, understood that, while the United States his ancestor had helped to create was a vigorous outgrowth of the British political traditions he and de Tocqueville so admired, Ireland was their poisoned fruit. America, he wrote, was “the land where destitution is the exception,” Ireland “the country where misery is the common rule.”

The problem was not that the land was barren: Scanlan records that, “in 1846, 3.3 million acres were planted with grain, and Irish farms raised more than 2.5 million cattle, 2.2 million sheep and 600,000 pigs.” But almost none of this food was available for consumption by the people who produced it. It was intended primarily for export to the burgeoning industrial cities of England. Thus, even Irish farmers who held ten or more acres and who would therefore have been regarded as well off, ate meat only at Christmas. “If an Irish family slaughtered their own pig, they would sell even the intestines and other offal,” Scanlan writes. He quotes the testimony of a farmer to a parliamentary commission, in 1836, that “he knew other leaseholders who had not eaten even an egg in six months. ‘We sell them now,’ he explained.”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/03/17/rot-padraic-x-scanlan-book-review

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Lavenderflower · 07/08/2025 06:56

@Lemniscate8
While the Holocaust remains one of the most horrific atrocities in modern history and continues to shape the collective memory of those directly and indirectly affected, the Irish Famine (1845–1852) also warrants serious recognition for its profound and enduring impact. More than one million people died, and at least another million were forced to emigrate. Far from being a purely natural disaster, the Famine was exacerbated by British colonial policies, systemic neglect, and administrative mismanagement. The result was not only a demographic catastrophe but also a cultural and psychological rupture, the consequences of which have echoed across generations.

Contemporary mental health discourse increasingly acknowledges the role of intergenerational trauma in shaping the well-being of postcolonial populations. Irish people have historically been overrepresented in psychiatric institutions, and scholars have hypothesised that the legacy of famine, displacement, and colonial marginalisation likey contributed to this pattern. Intergenerational trauma, including that linked to starvation and systemic oppression, is now recognised as a legitimate factor in both physical and mental health outcomes. As with other communities affected by colonisation, open engagement with historical trauma is a necessary part of collective healing and psychological resilience. Denying this history undermines efforts to understand and address its ongoing social and health-related consequences.

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 07:07

Lavenderflower · 07/08/2025 06:56

@Lemniscate8
While the Holocaust remains one of the most horrific atrocities in modern history and continues to shape the collective memory of those directly and indirectly affected, the Irish Famine (1845–1852) also warrants serious recognition for its profound and enduring impact. More than one million people died, and at least another million were forced to emigrate. Far from being a purely natural disaster, the Famine was exacerbated by British colonial policies, systemic neglect, and administrative mismanagement. The result was not only a demographic catastrophe but also a cultural and psychological rupture, the consequences of which have echoed across generations.

Contemporary mental health discourse increasingly acknowledges the role of intergenerational trauma in shaping the well-being of postcolonial populations. Irish people have historically been overrepresented in psychiatric institutions, and scholars have hypothesised that the legacy of famine, displacement, and colonial marginalisation likey contributed to this pattern. Intergenerational trauma, including that linked to starvation and systemic oppression, is now recognised as a legitimate factor in both physical and mental health outcomes. As with other communities affected by colonisation, open engagement with historical trauma is a necessary part of collective healing and psychological resilience. Denying this history undermines efforts to understand and address its ongoing social and health-related consequences.

yes of course its massive, I am just explaining that while the holocaust will be having dierect and epigentic effects, the potato famine won't (and yes, I am calling it a potato famine, sorry if that offends you, but anyone can claim to be offended by anything, and you can't just change your vocabulary every time or we would just simply be unable to communicate)

Shayisgreat · 07/08/2025 08:46

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 07:07

yes of course its massive, I am just explaining that while the holocaust will be having dierect and epigentic effects, the potato famine won't (and yes, I am calling it a potato famine, sorry if that offends you, but anyone can claim to be offended by anything, and you can't just change your vocabulary every time or we would just simply be unable to communicate)

The arrogance of thinking that the way you've referred to something is fine when lots of people have shared various reasons it is not correct are just astounding here.

The Irish refer to it as The Famine or The Great Hunger. How on earth do you think that it is acceptable to tell them it's actually called a different name and that they shouldn't be offended?

RosaMundi27 · 07/08/2025 08:46

Lurina · 07/08/2025 01:12

I think you’ve misjudged your fellow countrymen and women then. I found your previous post objectionable and, as it seems to be deleted now, it’s clear I’m not the only one who thought that.

I don’t think Irish people have a hive mind. You were the one speaking of a ‘national mind’, not me, though it’s now clear you didn’t include your own as part of it, of course not.

😂

Elatha · 07/08/2025 08:49

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 07:07

yes of course its massive, I am just explaining that while the holocaust will be having dierect and epigentic effects, the potato famine won't (and yes, I am calling it a potato famine, sorry if that offends you, but anyone can claim to be offended by anything, and you can't just change your vocabulary every time or we would just simply be unable to communicate)

I really hope that people will still remember, reflect on and discuss the Holocaust in 50 years, 100 years and 150 years and so on. It’s an important event that we should never forget. Not just for Jewish people. But for the whole world.
The Great Hunger is a key part of Irish history and I hope we never forget it. Like honestly you couldn’t even explain Irish history properly without learning about this enormous event that halved the population. It leaves it mark on our population, on the Irish diaspora and most of all on our identity.

Are you actually suggesting that we delete it from school curriculums and tear down famine memorials? You’re taking such a strange stance of this.

Rowen32 · 07/08/2025 08:54

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 07:07

yes of course its massive, I am just explaining that while the holocaust will be having dierect and epigentic effects, the potato famine won't (and yes, I am calling it a potato famine, sorry if that offends you, but anyone can claim to be offended by anything, and you can't just change your vocabulary every time or we would just simply be unable to communicate)

That's an awful thing to say really..

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 09:00

Rowen32 · 07/08/2025 08:54

That's an awful thing to say really..

what is awful?

PhilippaGeorgiou · 07/08/2025 09:03

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 07:07

yes of course its massive, I am just explaining that while the holocaust will be having dierect and epigentic effects, the potato famine won't (and yes, I am calling it a potato famine, sorry if that offends you, but anyone can claim to be offended by anything, and you can't just change your vocabulary every time or we would just simply be unable to communicate)

I grew up in a period when people used the N word routinely and saw nothing wrong with it. If people can't change their vocabulary to avoid causing deliberate offence, then they must be stupid. Anyone can change. It simply requires the will to do so. Where there is no such will, then that says everything you need to know about them.

Elatha · 07/08/2025 09:08

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 09:00

what is awful?

It is awful to insist on using a term that is simply not used in Ireland for reasons that have been explained because “anyone can be offended by anything”

Slimtoddy · 07/08/2025 09:09

@Lemniscate8 my great grandfather experienced the Great Hunger is that not close enough for you? It is for me! Luckily you are not the judge!

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 09:14

Elatha · 07/08/2025 09:08

It is awful to insist on using a term that is simply not used in Ireland for reasons that have been explained because “anyone can be offended by anything”

Because that is what it is called! here are some words I have been told not to use in the past, due to offence caused

Slave (In roman history)
Black (in lessons about light)
Colour (in lessons about light)
Cis (in its correct context in chemistry)
Blank
Positive
Shield
Horn
Ivory
Angel

There comes a time when you just have to make a judgement for yourself, is this a reasonable request or not, you cannot just accede to them all, we would stop being able to communicate at all

OchonAgusOchonOh · 07/08/2025 09:14

WalkingaroundJardine · 07/08/2025 05:06

When you are looking at when the Irish potato famine happened, you are looking at great to great great grandparents of people alive today.

This really isn’t a long time ago. Of course descendants are going to be interested and feel a personal connection to what happened to their near ancestors they might not have met but were told about by parents or grandparents.

I also have spoken to Australians whose ancestors were convicts as well. They will often recount with disbelief that their ancestor was transported for stealing a handkerchief.

It’s human to connect to a major historical event in the comparatively recent past.

Can you please not use the term potato famine? The correct term is the Great Famine. The Irish Famine is also acceptable.

Shayisgreat · 07/08/2025 09:19

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 09:14

Because that is what it is called! here are some words I have been told not to use in the past, due to offence caused

Slave (In roman history)
Black (in lessons about light)
Colour (in lessons about light)
Cis (in its correct context in chemistry)
Blank
Positive
Shield
Horn
Ivory
Angel

There comes a time when you just have to make a judgement for yourself, is this a reasonable request or not, you cannot just accede to them all, we would stop being able to communicate at all

But can you not educate yourself?

Calling it the potato famine diminishes the responsibility of the British. By insisting that it is the correct term, you are saying to Irish people that the reasons our ancestors died was they were too stupid to feed themselves. Can you not understand how offensive that is?

Lurina · 07/08/2025 09:20

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 09:14

Because that is what it is called! here are some words I have been told not to use in the past, due to offence caused

Slave (In roman history)
Black (in lessons about light)
Colour (in lessons about light)
Cis (in its correct context in chemistry)
Blank
Positive
Shield
Horn
Ivory
Angel

There comes a time when you just have to make a judgement for yourself, is this a reasonable request or not, you cannot just accede to them all, we would stop being able to communicate at all

It is not what it is called in Ireland and you have been told why.
Why do you think this particular request unreasonable?

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 09:22

OchonAgusOchonOh · 07/08/2025 09:14

Can you please not use the term potato famine? The correct term is the Great Famine. The Irish Famine is also acceptable.

Edited

It is not THE great famine, or the only famine in Ireland. It is the potato famine

Elatha · 07/08/2025 09:23

Shayisgreat · 07/08/2025 09:19

But can you not educate yourself?

Calling it the potato famine diminishes the responsibility of the British. By insisting that it is the correct term, you are saying to Irish people that the reasons our ancestors died was they were too stupid to feed themselves. Can you not understand how offensive that is?

Edited

But I think they want to diminish the role of Britain. That is very much their raison d’etre on this thread. They think Irish people stupidly starved themselves and should never speak of it.

Tippertapperfeet · 07/08/2025 09:24

MsAmerica · 07/08/2025 00:19

Yes. I get impatient by people who get all upset over a single word AND don't bother to clarify the problem.

It isn’t called a famine in the article. It’s called The Great Hunger. Do you continue to use offensive terms in other areas of your life?

Tippertapperfeet · 07/08/2025 09:25

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 09:22

It is not THE great famine, or the only famine in Ireland. It is the potato famine

It’s offensive to call it the Irish potato famine.

it wasn’t a famine.

Lurina · 07/08/2025 09:28

It’s widely known as a famine in Ireland though@Tippertapperfeet, just not as the Potato Famine. The article does call it a famine too, as well as using the term The Great Hunger.

Tippertapperfeet · 07/08/2025 09:29

I know. I’m just upset at someone doubling down.

im hiding the thread because there’s no point.

apologies

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 09:32

Slimtoddy · 07/08/2025 09:09

@Lemniscate8 my great grandfather experienced the Great Hunger is that not close enough for you? It is for me! Luckily you are not the judge!

your great grandfather had your grandparent at 50, your grandparent had your parent at 50, your parent had you at 50? Or something like that. That still makes your great grandparent 0 years old at the time so he won't have known anything about it, and the age of parenthood in your family such that you can't possibly have known him.

The holocaust is very much still in living memory

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 09:33

Tippertapperfeet · 07/08/2025 09:25

It’s offensive to call it the Irish potato famine.

it wasn’t a famine.

It was no different to any other famine. No lack of food, just food unavailable to certain people. That is what a famine is. Or are we not supposed to use the word famine now?

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 09:36

Elatha · 07/08/2025 09:23

But I think they want to diminish the role of Britain. That is very much their raison d’etre on this thread. They think Irish people stupidly starved themselves and should never speak of it.

Calling it the potato famine is in no way diminishing the role of the british, or calling the irish stupid. It is distinguishing it from other irish famines, other british famines, other great famines, etc. The famine occuring in Sudan right now, for example.

no one has given any reason why this term should be viewed as offensive. Somebody just decided it should be so, presumably because they want to be able to say "jump" and watch people jump.

Shayisgreat · 07/08/2025 09:40

@Lemniscate8It just occurred to me to ask this- do you actually think that the Great Hunger happened in Ireland because the Irish were too stupid to grow anything else?

Do you actually believe that the British ruling classes didn't implement policies that made it impossible for Irish people to subsist on anything else?

Are you aware the more food was exported from Ireland by British landlords during the Great Famine years than the previous or subsequent years?

Do you really think that it was solely a "potato famine"?

The British call it a potato famine because in their arrogance they can't accept culpability in creating the Great Hunger. Are you one of their number? Or are you just unable to learn new concepts?

Elatha · 07/08/2025 09:45

Lemniscate8 · 07/08/2025 09:36

Calling it the potato famine is in no way diminishing the role of the british, or calling the irish stupid. It is distinguishing it from other irish famines, other british famines, other great famines, etc. The famine occuring in Sudan right now, for example.

no one has given any reason why this term should be viewed as offensive. Somebody just decided it should be so, presumably because they want to be able to say "jump" and watch people jump.

How does it distinguish it from other Irish famines that also started with the failure of the potato?

There were also pockets of famine started elsewhere by the same crop failure at the exact same time although not at the same level. So how does it distinguish from those.

It is called The Great Hunger in Irish which is where The Great famine comes from. If you want to be really really clear and ensure that nobody things you are talking about Sudan today you could call it by it’s Irish name An Gorta Mór.