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Politics

The Irish Potato Famine

402 replies

MsAmerica · 05/08/2025 03:23

This would have been better in a history forum, but failing that, I'll try Politics. Interesting article - a book review, really.

What Made the Irish Famine So Deadly
The Great Hunger was a modern event, shaped by the belief that the poor are the authors of their own misery and that the market must be obeyed at all costs.
By Fintan O’Toole

There have been, in absolute terms, many deadlier famines, but as Amartya Sen, the eminent Indian scholar of the subject, concluded, in “no other famine in the world [was] the proportion of people killed . . . as large as in the Irish famines in the 1840s.” The pathogen that caused it was a fungus-like water mold called Phytophthora infestans. Its effect on the potato gives “Rot,” a vigorous and engaging new study of the Irish famine by the historian Padraic X. Scanlan, its title. The blight began to infect the crop across much of western and northern Europe in the summer of 1845. In the Netherlands, about sixty thousand people died in the consequent famine—a terrible loss, but a fraction of the mortality rate in Ireland. It is, oddly, easier to form a mental picture of what it might have been like to witness the Dutch tragedy than to truly convey the magnitude of the suffering in Ireland...

Even before the potato blight, there was a degree of hunger among the Irish rural underclass that seemed like an ugly remnant of a receding past. In 1837, two years after Alexis de Tocqueville published the first volume of “Democracy in America,” his lifelong collaborator, Gustave de Beaumont, went to Ireland, a country the two men had previously visited together. The book de Beaumont produced in 1839, “L’Irlande: Sociale, Politique et Religieuse,” was a grim companion piece to his friend’s largely optimistic vision of the future that was taking shape on the far side of the Atlantic. De Beaumont, a grandson by marriage of the Marquis de Lafayette, understood that, while the United States his ancestor had helped to create was a vigorous outgrowth of the British political traditions he and de Tocqueville so admired, Ireland was their poisoned fruit. America, he wrote, was “the land where destitution is the exception,” Ireland “the country where misery is the common rule.”

The problem was not that the land was barren: Scanlan records that, “in 1846, 3.3 million acres were planted with grain, and Irish farms raised more than 2.5 million cattle, 2.2 million sheep and 600,000 pigs.” But almost none of this food was available for consumption by the people who produced it. It was intended primarily for export to the burgeoning industrial cities of England. Thus, even Irish farmers who held ten or more acres and who would therefore have been regarded as well off, ate meat only at Christmas. “If an Irish family slaughtered their own pig, they would sell even the intestines and other offal,” Scanlan writes. He quotes the testimony of a farmer to a parliamentary commission, in 1836, that “he knew other leaseholders who had not eaten even an egg in six months. ‘We sell them now,’ he explained.”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/03/17/rot-padraic-x-scanlan-book-review

OP posts:
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MollyRover · 05/08/2025 06:46

It wasn’t a famine, there was plenty of food but this was exported by the British for profit. Ethnic cleansing is more appropriate.

MikeRafone · 05/08/2025 06:53

MollyRover · 05/08/2025 06:46

It wasn’t a famine, there was plenty of food but this was exported by the British for profit. Ethnic cleansing is more appropriate.

This was the English, not the British and it was those in power who were elected only by those that had the right to vote

SingedElbow · 05/08/2025 07:04

Please remove your offensive thread title.

TheGrimSmile · 05/08/2025 07:05

I think everyone knows that there was no famine. They were starved to death. Just like the Palestinians are not starving. They are being starved by Israel.

Radiatorvalves · 05/08/2025 07:06

There is a well known book called the Great Hunger. Well worth reading.

AndAllOurYesterdays · 05/08/2025 07:08

There is a good podcast on the great famine called after dark on BBC sounds. Interesting contextual bit at the end looking at why the name 'potato famine' is no longer used and why it's not taught in British history lessons at school.

knitnerd90 · 05/08/2025 07:16

Given that it occurred post-1707, it won't do to simply blame the English. The British government did it. Not the English. Scottish industry and its wealthy, benefited from British colonial policy and the poor in both England and Scotland had no say.

The book reviewed is excellent; I've read it. There are many layers to why the famine was so bad, and they pretty much all boil down to British colonial policy that discouraged tenants from land improvements and forced them to live on a diet of potatoes to maximise exports to England. The government saw fit to import maize from America to feed the starving, a food they had never seen before, while continuing the export of grain from Ireland. They called it not interfering with the market, but the entire market was rigged to begin with.

There were multiple famines in British India that were also the result of British policy. It led Amartya Sen to his famous conclusion that famine is fundamentally political. For that matter, the famous Ethiopian famine was the result of the Derg using starvation as policy.

Malvala · 05/08/2025 07:17

The word GENOCIDE is missing … somehow it always is.

upandleftthenright · 05/08/2025 07:20

TheGrimSmile · 05/08/2025 07:05

I think everyone knows that there was no famine. They were starved to death. Just like the Palestinians are not starving. They are being starved by Israel.

Why are the Irish so obsessed with linking themselves to what is going on in Gaza? It’s like an obsession to claim current victimhood. Ireland is a thriving and prosperous country. Understand and acknowledge your history but don’t go down the path of being victims and aligning with horrors elsewhere. I see this mentality creeping into Scotland and it’s so destructive. Trying to make highland clearances a thing and that Scotland is owed something as victims. It’s a self defeating mindset. It’s not of the same equivalence to war elsewhere.

SingedElbow · 05/08/2025 07:24

upandleftthenright · 05/08/2025 07:20

Why are the Irish so obsessed with linking themselves to what is going on in Gaza? It’s like an obsession to claim current victimhood. Ireland is a thriving and prosperous country. Understand and acknowledge your history but don’t go down the path of being victims and aligning with horrors elsewhere. I see this mentality creeping into Scotland and it’s so destructive. Trying to make highland clearances a thing and that Scotland is owed something as victims. It’s a self defeating mindset. It’s not of the same equivalence to war elsewhere.

Ireland has a long history of supporting Palestine. It’s not some bandwagon-hopping recent exercise. Neither is seeing colonial parallels rendered illegitimate by Ireland’s current comparative prosperity.

PurpleChrayn · 05/08/2025 07:32

TheGrimSmile · 05/08/2025 07:05

I think everyone knows that there was no famine. They were starved to death. Just like the Palestinians are not starving. They are being starved by Israel.

Israel has provided more than adequate aid. It’s the UN that has refused to work with Israeli organisations to distribute it.

PurpleChrayn · 05/08/2025 07:34

upandleftthenright · 05/08/2025 07:20

Why are the Irish so obsessed with linking themselves to what is going on in Gaza? It’s like an obsession to claim current victimhood. Ireland is a thriving and prosperous country. Understand and acknowledge your history but don’t go down the path of being victims and aligning with horrors elsewhere. I see this mentality creeping into Scotland and it’s so destructive. Trying to make highland clearances a thing and that Scotland is owed something as victims. It’s a self defeating mindset. It’s not of the same equivalence to war elsewhere.

Victim mentality. It’s incredibly tiresome. The inability to move on from events leads to a certain atrophying of national consciousness.

Slimtoddy · 05/08/2025 07:39

I often wonder about long term impacts. The possible epigenetics at play today. My great grandfather was born around the end of the Great Hunger - my parents and grandparents were old when they had kids which is why it's only a couple of generations back for me.

I think there are lingering impacts. I found something recently from an academic who is exploring this. Will try and find a will share.

GiantTeddyIsTired · 05/08/2025 07:57

It's not as simple as big bad English starving the Irish by continuing to buy the grain - exported by Irish farmers so they could pay their rent, although of course that's probably the primary issue - although, if they'd stopped selling the grain (and meat etc) then they'd be evicted, which obviously brings other major issues - the entire landlord system was the issue here - although tenant farmer situations are very common everywhere (including the UK) so there was more going on here to cause the catastrophic collapse.

Mono-crops are generally a bad idea, Catholicism resulting in massive families, that were already barely surviving on what they could grow, the subdivision of family plots over time with inheritance making it harder to grow enough for a family - it wasn't one thing. It was everything happening all together

SingedElbow · 05/08/2025 07:59

GiantTeddyIsTired · 05/08/2025 07:57

It's not as simple as big bad English starving the Irish by continuing to buy the grain - exported by Irish farmers so they could pay their rent, although of course that's probably the primary issue - although, if they'd stopped selling the grain (and meat etc) then they'd be evicted, which obviously brings other major issues - the entire landlord system was the issue here - although tenant farmer situations are very common everywhere (including the UK) so there was more going on here to cause the catastrophic collapse.

Mono-crops are generally a bad idea, Catholicism resulting in massive families, that were already barely surviving on what they could grow, the subdivision of family plots over time with inheritance making it harder to grow enough for a family - it wasn't one thing. It was everything happening all together

Remarkably under-informed.

GiantTeddyIsTired · 05/08/2025 08:00

Mono-crops are a good idea? The potato blight had nothing to do with it? Tenant farmers on increasingly small plots with large families is just fine and dandy?

Lemniscate8 · 05/08/2025 08:02

MollyRover · 05/08/2025 06:46

It wasn’t a famine, there was plenty of food but this was exported by the British for profit. Ethnic cleansing is more appropriate.

There is normally food available in a famine, just not available to everyone. This doesn't mean it wasn't a famine.

pushthebuttonnn · 05/08/2025 08:02

PurpleChrayn · 05/08/2025 07:32

Israel has provided more than adequate aid. It’s the UN that has refused to work with Israeli organisations to distribute it.

You keep telling yourself that if it makes you sleep better.

TheGrimSmile · 05/08/2025 08:03

PurpleChrayn · 05/08/2025 07:32

Israel has provided more than adequate aid. It’s the UN that has refused to work with Israeli organisations to distribute it.

Nothing to do with the Israelis lying in the road to block lorries. Then setting up "distribution points" and shooting starving people who come to collect food. Evil fucks.

How do you sleep at night? How can you even try to justify what Israel is doing?

Lemniscate8 · 05/08/2025 08:05

AndAllOurYesterdays · 05/08/2025 07:08

There is a good podcast on the great famine called after dark on BBC sounds. Interesting contextual bit at the end looking at why the name 'potato famine' is no longer used and why it's not taught in British history lessons at school.

It is taught when victorian polictics is taught, it depends on the areas chosen for study. I assure you is is still taught though

SingedElbow · 05/08/2025 08:12

GiantTeddyIsTired · 05/08/2025 08:00

Mono-crops are a good idea? The potato blight had nothing to do with it? Tenant farmers on increasingly small plots with large families is just fine and dandy?

Maybe just stop opining about how a largely illiterate peasant population of subsistence farmers, who could only feed themselves on tiny holdings by monocropping, should have diversified and practised family planning. Maybe they could have Googled.

Your arrogance is truly colonial. Congratulations.

Lemniscate8 · 05/08/2025 08:12

It is an interesting study, and a lot to be learnt from it.

You cant get security from monocrops.

Hygeine and sanitation are crucial in any form of social breakdown from any manmade or natural disaster (more died of disease then hunger, although hunger would have contributed to susceptability)

Lack of clear thorough trueful information lead to people not understanding what was happening - we have the same issues today both through underreporting and over reporting in different situations

Huge financial donations for aid were ineffectual, due to lack of effective information and distribution of the food, many irish people recieved dry maize as a releif, with no idea what it was or waht to do with it. Much corn sent as relief rotted on the dockside while politicians argued about what to do with it

Lemniscate8 · 05/08/2025 08:13

SingedElbow · 05/08/2025 08:12

Maybe just stop opining about how a largely illiterate peasant population of subsistence farmers, who could only feed themselves on tiny holdings by monocropping, should have diversified and practised family planning. Maybe they could have Googled.

Your arrogance is truly colonial. Congratulations.

But this was a moncrop - it doesn't matter who you blame for that, the fact is, it was a moncrop, and wiped out by a single disease burning through it - a lesson for today.

Mochudubh · 05/08/2025 08:15

@upandleftthenright "trying to make the Highland Clearances a thing"

What the actual fuck?

They were very much "a thing". I'd like to think I've misunderstood what appears at face value to be an extremely ignorant and offensive post. But I suspect not. 🙄

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