Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Politics

Changes to immigration rules announced by Starmer

658 replies

OneAmberFinch · 12/05/2025 14:27

Full white paper here is extensive and announces changes to all avenues of migration - basically their approach to resolving the issues of massively increased migration from 2019-2023/4.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6821aec3f16c0654b19060ac/restoring-control-over-the-immigration-system-white-paper.pdf

And Starmer's commentary on the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ce810e3z6dkt

Handful of headline changes: default timeline to get ILR to go to 10 years instead of 5; abolishing new care worker visas; raising skills threshold for Skilled Workers back up to graduate level; increasing minimum grades required for student visas; various bits and pieces around English language requirements among several other policies

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6821aec3f16c0654b19060ac/restoring-control-over-the-immigration-system-white-paper.pdf

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/05/2025 20:20

NHS Healthcare:
Even if an immigrant has an NRPF condition, they are still entitled to free NHS healthcare.

Pardon, but it’s not free to immigrants. They have to pay a per person NHS surcharge of £1,035 per year including for children in addition to the NIC and income taxes they pay at the same rate as British workers.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/05/2025 20:20

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 12/05/2025 20:16

No. It can’t be net anything if you are not taking into consideration the whole.

It's possible to talk about net migration without talking about every single aspect of net migration. This was clearly demonstrated today by Starmer who was talking about stricter rules on who comes into the country in order to cut down on net migration.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 12/05/2025 20:22

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/05/2025 20:20

It's possible to talk about net migration without talking about every single aspect of net migration. This was clearly demonstrated today by Starmer who was talking about stricter rules on who comes into the country in order to cut down on net migration.

Well, you can, but then it’s not net migration.

Digdongdoo · 12/05/2025 20:22

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/05/2025 20:20

It's possible to talk about net migration without talking about every single aspect of net migration. This was clearly demonstrated today by Starmer who was talking about stricter rules on who comes into the country in order to cut down on net migration.

Pretty stupid to look at empty numbers though. Cutting net migration by limiting the numbers of the most productive migrants. Well done.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/05/2025 20:25

OneAmberFinch · 12/05/2025 18:00

The current plan includes sponsoring people to come here, work as care workers for 5 years, then get to stay here for the rest of their lives and need carers themselves. So in the long term it's not great.

I do agree that at some point we as a society will need to grapple with care costs but the care worker visa was not the right solution

You seriously think that we should keep bringing in lots and lots of high paid, high skilled, degreed foreign workers like yourself who you hope can get an ILR exception of 5yrs instead of the new 10yrs. Yet you’re all for barring immigration for every one of lower education, skill and pay than yourself so that what? Working class British are kept in their place? No upward mobility because high paid, high skilled, degrees jobs are being filled by imported workers?
Because you think you’re obviously a better sort of immigrant?

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/05/2025 20:27

Mypinkchequebookholder · 12/05/2025 18:03

I don't know the answer to that.

Years ago people looked after their elderly relatives themselves and nursing/care homes were unheard of.
We had our grandfather living with us for years.
Other people with funds available have "granny flats" built on or have static caravans in the back garden.
They cope with care/nursing support..

Yeah and in those glory days women went from not being able to work because of children to not being able to work because of elder care. Engineering a shortage of carers is a great way to reverse feminism, equality and financial independence for women.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/05/2025 20:28

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 12/05/2025 20:22

Well, you can, but then it’s not net migration.

He's talking about certain aspects of net migration.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/05/2025 20:30

Digdongdoo · 12/05/2025 20:22

Pretty stupid to look at empty numbers though. Cutting net migration by limiting the numbers of the most productive migrants. Well done.

This has been the argument all along with Reform supporters who wanted net zero.

We need immigration so how do we go about reducing it? Starmer has outlined a plan to reduce it, apparently this is what people want.

OneAmberFinch · 12/05/2025 20:30

Shinealighty · 12/05/2025 19:58

In the year ending September 2024, 95,635 family-related visas were granted in the UK, including partner visas. Of these, a significant portion (14,417) went to Pakistani nationals, with most of those issued through the Family: Partner visa route. Syrian and Iranian nationals also received a large number of family visas in the same period.

This is true.

Family visas aren't extremely high but they are rising, circa 86k visas granted last year, a 7% rise on the year before and part of an overall trend upwards (excluding a couple of years over COVID).

This route is for partners/dependents of British citizens (and some refugees) joining them, not for e.g. someone on a work visa who also brings their wife and kids. Those dependents are counted under the "main" visa.

Looking at the top 10 countries, it would be reasonable to assume that this is largely chain migration rather than people just happening to fall in love with random people from around the world.

Source (think this is also what PP is using): www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-december-2024/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-family

OP posts:
ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 12/05/2025 20:31

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/05/2025 20:28

He's talking about certain aspects of net migration.

Then he’s not talking about net immigration, just about some aspects of it, which is a completely different thing.

Look, I can keep doing that, but I really hope you’re free of your confusion now, because I have a glass of wine and Netflix to attend to.

Fawful · 12/05/2025 20:33

Shinealighty · 12/05/2025 20:02

I’d like my children to not have to attend a school where over 90% of the children have English as a foreign language, for example. Wouldn’t anyone?

Not that old chestnut again… it’s important to know that the way the stats are collected, any child who was exposed to another language at home before the age of (1? Can’t remember the exact number), is recorded as having “English as an additional language”, even if they are fluent in English.
That means in my son’s class there may have been 50% of kids officially counted as having English as an additional language due to having at least one parent from wherever (Denmark, Iran, Spain) but they still all spoke perfect English.
All these straw men arguments, honestly..
It’s also well documented that the problem with the NHS and getting GP appointments is to do with an ageing population who lives for a v long time rather than immigration. God knows we have needed immigrant doctors and nurses.

Digdongdoo · 12/05/2025 20:35

Fawful · 12/05/2025 20:33

Not that old chestnut again… it’s important to know that the way the stats are collected, any child who was exposed to another language at home before the age of (1? Can’t remember the exact number), is recorded as having “English as an additional language”, even if they are fluent in English.
That means in my son’s class there may have been 50% of kids officially counted as having English as an additional language due to having at least one parent from wherever (Denmark, Iran, Spain) but they still all spoke perfect English.
All these straw men arguments, honestly..
It’s also well documented that the problem with the NHS and getting GP appointments is to do with an ageing population who lives for a v long time rather than immigration. God knows we have needed immigrant doctors and nurses.

My DCs school is the same. About 50% English not first language. The vast majority are fluent or very close. It's not disruptive to anyone's education (in their school)

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/05/2025 20:39

GlitteringFeeling · 12/05/2025 19:06

@OneAmberFinch It would be good if that quirk is sorted - very frustrating that the time on a previous visa doesn’t count for ILR at the moment.

We do absolutely intend to get married, but would be nice to do it on our terms and not because of the government! I also worry companies might not be keen to employ people on dependent visas, as all this anti-immigration rhetoric takes hold. Hopefully that’s just a pessimistic view though!

You don’t need to be married to qualify for a partner visa. 😉

OneAmberFinch · 12/05/2025 20:41

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/05/2025 20:25

You seriously think that we should keep bringing in lots and lots of high paid, high skilled, degreed foreign workers like yourself who you hope can get an ILR exception of 5yrs instead of the new 10yrs. Yet you’re all for barring immigration for every one of lower education, skill and pay than yourself so that what? Working class British are kept in their place? No upward mobility because high paid, high skilled, degrees jobs are being filled by imported workers?
Because you think you’re obviously a better sort of immigrant?

Honestly, I think I do provide skills that are hard to find even on the global market, and I pay a lot of taxes, obey the law and do my best to integrate with British culture (including marrying a British man).

I'm really supportive of any changes that "raise the bar" for immigrants because I'd like people I meet to be able to assume that I've met it. Currently that's not the case. I think that although there is more I'd change if you gave me the pen, the changes announced today will raise the bar, although how much of an effect it will have in practice remains to be seen as many critical details are yet to be announced.

With that said... I mean, yeah... I have a City job that pays nearly £200k all-in - probably half of my coworkers are foreign born, not even educated here - British people should be more mad about losing access to this job than they are, even if I selfishly am glad I have it!

OP posts:
Fawful · 12/05/2025 20:43

SomewhereinSuberbia · 12/05/2025 20:19

The proportion of minority groups living in Britain will rise from 10% in 2006 to 40% by 2050 (according to the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford).
I think we need to slow down immegration and try and assimilate the population that is here or we may end up fracturing into sectarianism.
Social cohesion is something that we have not have had to worry about before for many years but we need to get it right or sectarianism of religious or racial tribalism may take root.

Most of us are perfectly assimilated, thank you. In government stats, btw, “Ethnic minorities” is anyone who is not White British.
So let that sink in before you worry about 40% of “ethnic” minorities.
This includes a lot of British non-whites who I’m sure you’re not going to argue are dying to enter sectarian conflicts. I don’t know what you imagine “ethnic” to mean…

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/05/2025 20:43

in November 2020, over 1.6 million non-UK nationals were claiming at least one DWP-administered benefit. This number was 61% higher than in November 2019

wow what a mystery almost like there was a pandemic with lock downs that forced people to stay home and not work….

GlitteringFeeling · 12/05/2025 20:52

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/05/2025 20:39

You don’t need to be married to qualify for a partner visa. 😉

That is true ! But the evidence you need to provide is a bit easier if married, and we do want to get married so seems the most straightforward option 🙂

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/05/2025 20:54

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/05/2025 20:39

You don’t need to be married to qualify for a partner visa. 😉

Seriously @GlitteringFeeling you don’t need to be married or in a civil partnership to qualify for a partner visa. It has been that way for the past 15yrs at least. As of last year, you don’t even need to have cohabited for 2yrs to qualify.

sorry x-posted, just seen your reply

Shinealighty · 12/05/2025 20:56

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/05/2025 20:43

in November 2020, over 1.6 million non-UK nationals were claiming at least one DWP-administered benefit. This number was 61% higher than in November 2019

wow what a mystery almost like there was a pandemic with lock downs that forced people to stay home and not work….

Most working folk were furloughed at this time, that wasn’t a DWP administered benefit.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 12/05/2025 20:58

Shinealighty · 12/05/2025 20:56

Most working folk were furloughed at this time, that wasn’t a DWP administered benefit.

Not “most”- less than 25%
More lost their jobs and had to go on UC
Furlough was a very expensive program so that the middle class didn’t have to scrape by on UC.

Holluschickie · 12/05/2025 21:14

OP, your tone is very odd considering you are a recent immigrant yourself.

Following the law and assimilating is not unique to you. And nobody needs to marry a British man to show how assimilated they are.

OneAmberFinch · 12/05/2025 21:16

Holluschickie · 12/05/2025 21:14

OP, your tone is very odd considering you are a recent immigrant yourself.

Following the law and assimilating is not unique to you. And nobody needs to marry a British man to show how assimilated they are.

What are you implying?

OP posts:
mentalblank · 12/05/2025 21:16

I'm generally pro-immigration, but I did find some of the stats in the white paper fairly shocking. Things like 3/4 of care worker visas being issued to dependents in 2024, 15% of asylum claims coming from student visa holders, and under a third of graduate visa holders working in professional jobs suggest that some aspects of the system just aren't working.

There are also some measures in the paper that don't seem to have been reported much which seem really positive to me, like allowing (some) refugees to work and expanding global talent /similar visa schemes.

InPraiseOfIdleness · 12/05/2025 21:17

They’re not going to out-populist Reform and the “woke”-obsessed Conservatives with their irrelevant culture wars policies (if you can even call them “policies” without laughing at the idiocy).

Starmer & Co. are meant to be our Government, currently, not some slogan factory unworthy of A-level politics students. They need to show some leadership and implement evidence-based policies for the collective good of all UK citizens, not continue this pandering to ridiculous ideologies or focus groups/ Daily Mail headlines, and incoherent set of objectives which pull in different directions and don’t do anything to plant the seeds of any kind of recovery from the last two decades+ of economic mismanagement. Frankly, they need to grow up and get on with the job they’re being paid to do and what they’ve done in the last year shows absolutely zero sign of a competent, rational Government which is very disappointing.

This obsession with immigration is a huge distraction from the obvious steps that need to be taken to start to improve the UK economy. This will only happen by increasing productivity because that is the only way that living standards can rise, for the first time in two decades. The lack of even the most basic steps towards beginning this process (and, indeed, many of their actions actually undermining any prospect of it) is the fundamental driver of not-very-smart members of the electorate being drawn to the nonsensical policies of populists that won’t work and are designed purely to rile them up about the symptoms of the problem rather than suggest any measures that would actually address the causes of falling living standards.

There are many sensible people in the UK who would vote for a sensible party if one existed, and many others who aren’t very sensible but would vote again for a party that had actually done something useful in Government and resulted in them being better off than they were before rather than spend their entire term of Government focusing on soundbites and political optics: the proof is in the pudding.

Sadly, for the last 3 or 4 elections at least, there hasn’t been a single political party in the UK which has been capable of producing a viable manifesto that wasn’t pure economic fantasy, so living standards will continue to decline.

If the UK population decides to continue to indulge in this idiocy, having learned nothing from Brexit, then the old adage of a country getting the Government it deserves will continue to prove itself to be true, to our detriment, and the decline in living standards will accelerate.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/05/2025 21:19

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 12/05/2025 20:31

Then he’s not talking about net immigration, just about some aspects of it, which is a completely different thing.

Look, I can keep doing that, but I really hope you’re free of your confusion now, because I have a glass of wine and Netflix to attend to.

Edited

You're not making any sense. It's possible to talk about aspects of something and for that to be meaningful.

Swipe left for the next trending thread