Why do people like reform?

[TheGoogleMum]

I haven't been keeping very up to date with politics. I usually vote Labour. I don't really understand the popularity of reform, could anyone explain it to me?
As far as I'm aware Farage doesn't actually do anything when he wins a seat somewhere so I'm not convinced they'll actually do anything? Is it just a protest vote that's gone a bit far?

So if it was all false and hateful why do you think their is so much of it ?

you are going round in circles and its boring.

I'm sorry I'm boring you. You don't have to read my posts.

The line Monstera says here rings so true. Those of us who have no hard and fast political alignment to the left or the right are essentially homeless. No-one seems to be listening. A vote for Green feels like using white vinegar to save the planet.

"No amount of investment"

The NHS and social care have been chronically underfunded for decades. What look like big numbers on press releases are way below what is actually needed. We also have the issues of NHS privatisation by stealth, aka PFI, and the selling off of chunks of services like health records management (to companies like Iron Mountain) which just allows contractors to name their price.

*PFI was a conservative initiative, continued by Labour. It was a disastrous policy.

I see Andrea Jenkyns is at it already. Because she and her child have ADHD, she doesn't agree with cutting SEND budgets.

Probably old news but I've been away and was trying to remember the time when Andrea Jenkyns performed abysmally on Question Time and blamed the public for being unkind.

BBC News - Jenkyns at odds with Farage on special needs
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy8qe976eq3o

Yes she's had a torrid time. You do wonder why anyone would bother putting themselves out there for election given the shit they get back from people who disagree with them politically. That's why we have the politicians we deserve.

There are many Muslims who want peace and who are accepting of British values and who will adapt to the values of their host countries. But there are also many who don’t. There is a problem with extremism , obviously, and then there is everyone in between. Not ‘extreme’ as such, but see West as ungodly, unclean, immoral etc. If you think it’s just one or the other you are obviously delusional. Just the same as if you think everyone who votes for Reform is racist and stupid.

There is a fundamental ‘problem’ (for want of a better word) with Islam and modern, Western values of freedom. And that, at its root, is that the qu’ran is the word of God. And if you fundamentally believe that you WILL be at odds with many modern, British and Western values. I really don’t see a problem admitting that. I do not think it makes you racist. People who call you racist for doing so are stopping an honest conversation/ debate/ discussion on what can/ should be done about it.

Prejudice, social contagion, lack of direct experience?

I live in a heavily muslim area (and next door to a small mosque), and the muslims I encounter are exceptionally nice people. When we moved in to our house the leader of the youth group at the mosque (an older teen) came round with a card and chocolates on behalf of the mosque to wish us well in our new home.

Living here feels really safe.

Well looky-here, if it ain't the consequences of your actions...

I believe there is a currently an enormous amount of misinformation being spread online about special needs. it is relentless and absolutely everywhere. As an autistic person it has been quite depressing. To be on this scale it has to be political and well funded.

@Wishing14

Just the same as if you think everyone who votes for Reform is racist and stupid.

This logic has been preached by remain supporters since 23 June 2016. My view is that people are entitled to vote in any way they choose and do not have to provide justification to anyone for their choice

People who call you racist for doing so are stopping an honest conversation/ debate/ discussion on what can/ should be done about it

Agreed. They can’t reply to points presented by others. So, resort to insults.

They’re making me laugh this morning. They’re talking as thought they have won a general election, with their promises!

Just like the Islamophobia content, it is coordinated and amplified. Social media creates echo-chambers of tailored content and a lot of the more powerful negative elements of misinformation, disinformation and propaganda is coming from well funded sources to exploit public mistrust in government and other social groups and to forward their own political or financial interests.

Agreed. It's so counter productive. I've just seen that someone has actually written "educate yourself" on another thread, in support of immigration. How do they think that comes across to the average reader other than making the writer look like an utter twat. It's hardly persuasive (or perhaps persuasive of the opposite view).

I wish people could only debate from a positive position. State what they believe/ suggest as opposed to the negative, eg what is wrong with what you have to say, or worse, what is wrong with you (You are stupid/ racist). You would find the conversation dry up pretty quickly I think! It’s quite terrifying when you think about it.

There's good arguments on both sides (eg the immigration debate). Nothing is ever black and white. So it's a shame when people resort to name calling just because someone has a different perspective on life and have ended up coming down on one side of the argument.

Same with Brexit. Essentially that was a choice about how our country is governed economically. There are good arguments for both sides and at the start of the debate it looked like many people seemed open to discussion. But the standard of debate in this country has deteriorated so profoundly that it became impossible to discuss and weigh up the merits of either side without being accused of various personality disorders.

@Jackrussellsaremadyes I agree. I can generally see/ understand both sides in most things, and sometimes feel I’m living in an alternate universe because people are so very black and white in how they see the world. If you don’t know understand someone’s view, at least ask them questions, rather than insult them!

Some social media does not seem to be tailoring political content that reflects what the user would like to see. Before the general election, all I saw on x was the views of reform types! Yet I liked to follow pro EU accounts. I left x because of it.

I am a labour supporter but before these local elections, I have had sponsored Reform content in my feed on another social media site.

Dread to think what Reform supporters see on social media.

They can come in for six months as tourists without needing a visa then they just disappear and fail to go home. If they haven't found an angle to get into the system they'll be working on the black market or just robbing, scamming and begging their way around the country. Using the NHS by using friends addresses and saying they are 'on holiday.' That's even if they are asked, which is doubtful.

In my GP surgery the other day there was a folders full of pages translated into about 10 different languages dotted around the waiting area. They basically said 'it doesn't matter who you are or why you are here or what your immigration status is, if you need to see a doctor you can do so with no judgement and no questions asked. We won't ask to see proof of ID or proof of the right to be here.'

I mean seriously, come the fuck on. The rest of us struggle to get a doctor's appointment and referrals or treatment for more serious things, we are told the NHS is woefully underworked and underfunded but we can afford to do this?

And we wonder why Reform is doing so well.

They also "share" identity documents like passports, driving licences, etc., which is easy because we don't have a national ID card system unlike many other developed countries. Not that is restricted to immigrants, there are societies of "white male" in the UK who do likewise, where extended families share the same name for "official" things, i.e. sharing a driving licence, but within their community they have their own unique names. When one of them, say, gets stopped for a minor driving offence (pretty unlikely these days as police don't care), they'll get someone else within the community to produce their driving documents at the police station - as long as they "look a like" to some extent, no one will ever pick up that the driver on the day isn't the same person as presenting the documents at the police station. Probably why the police don't really care about motoring offences as they know it's just a waste of time.

I’m not sure about ID cards working as a solution. Germany have them and high level of undocumented migrants. Maybe more than U.K. I’m not sure how it works for healthcare or housing as I think you need to register an address.

Yep this!!

Thank you for posting this and giving me the insight. I have no problem with immigration but I know I live in an area which is not as impacted , so need to take a wider view

Of course not everyone who is anti immigration is racist. Many are feeling the major pressures from it like this
And , gulp, I might even agree with farage on somethings like single sex spaces
But when you look at the rhetoric and sound bites that they use on all topics. It's nasty, lying, populist and pathetic
Stuff on neurodiversity, vaccinations, the NHS, chlorinated chicken, bollocks savings like DOGE, EDI, and, most importantly to me, climate change 😑
It's batshit, it's bullshit and it's vile

The biggest irony to me is that climate change is going to cause mass migration and scrabble for resources on a scale that will dwarf that of today
The irony of denying climate change and causing more immigration is incredulous

I’m also a floating voter who would welcome an insurance based system. However, I’d look for a European group ownership model where legislation ensure that it’s a break even model with a reasonable safety net for people whose employment do not provide reasonably priced insurance options

Given half a chance, Farage would adopt a US model where pharmaceuticals and associated health care professionals make millions, people are bankrupted by the cost of medicine and the only ‘safety net’ available is very limited in availability occasional pop up provision) and coverage.