Page 11 | Is anyone watching this Trump car crash?

SabrinaThwaite · 03/04/2025 15:34

Hollyhobbi · 03/04/2025 15:32

Or an old Eurovision Song Contest score board🤣.

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Only this time it was Russia that got nul points.

GildedRage · 03/04/2025 15:37

@Clearinguptheclutter the US has the capacity to feed too many too much undercutting and decimating your own domestic production. So similar to loosing manufacturing skills and capability you could loose agricultural skills and ability. Canada protects its farmers (best they can and probably similar to France) we accept a certain quota of eggs from the US and after that amount which has never been met, yes there is a 250% tariff on their eggs. Canada’s population is small and the US could easily kill our ability to feed our own nation.

Cornettoninja · 03/04/2025 16:52

samarrange · 03/04/2025 15:28

They hold a lot of US debt, as opposed to USD currency (I'm not sure what damage they can do due to the latter). But actually Japan holds more US debt than China, and the UK has almost as much.

Any country could start a massive sell-off of its US debt, but then they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, unless there was some equivalent geopolitical benefit. They would probably be selling at a substantial loss and/or reducing the value of the US debt that they still held.

It's a bit like Elon Musk's wealth (which, for the avoidance of doubt, I think is obscene). He can't convert the $500 billion or whatever his companies are worth into cash and buy Freddos with it, because a large part of the value of the shares is the very fact that he is prepared to hold on to them.

Ditto, to a lesser extent, with using Norway's sovereign wealth fund to finance Ukraine and European defence more widely (which has been proposed on the basis that if this isn't the "rainy day" that you're saving for, what is?). It's worth $1.8 trillion, but if you try to unload all of that at once, you're not going to get $1.8 trillion for it, partly because of market confidence and partly because there just isn't that amount of cash sloshing around waiting to buy blue chip stocks.

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Thank you for the explanation. I still can’t quite get my head around why selling USA debt would be bad for them?

but then, I’m largely of a hippie, ‘fight club’ mentality and money and economies are artistic concepts that fail if no one buys into them.

Alexandra2001 · 03/04/2025 16:59

1dayatatime · 03/04/2025 14:59

So putting VAT aside the UK charges tariffs on imports from the US. These vary depending on the product but are generally between 8 and 10%.

For example beef imports (and I am not talking about GM beef but beef that passes UK standards) has a 12% levy.

Whereas a pair of Levi jeans (and other US clothing imports) attract a tariff of 8%.

Imports of cars from the US are at 10% tariff.

So this idea that the 10% tariff imposed on the UK exports is somehow in retaliation for VAT at 20% is nonsense. If the UK removed tariffs on imports from the US then the UK would be in a better position to argue against tariffs on exports from the UK to the US.

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Your are ignoring the tariffs the USA also applied to UK goods, pre yesterday and that he applied tariffs the first time round too.

Its not for nothing that leading economists are saying this is the biggest disruptor to trade ever seen.

Zebedee999 · 03/04/2025 17:01

Igotjelly · 03/04/2025 12:18

Ah yes! Trump, man of the people and saviour of the working class….. or maybe not.

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Nobody else is trying to create jobs for the working class. For decades politicians across the west have seen working class living standards plummet.
Trump is trying something different to reverse that. It may be successful. It may be a disaster. But keep doing the same thing and nothing will change. Trump is being bold… or reckless… but at least he’s trying something different. Hope it works out for them.

Zebedee999 · 03/04/2025 17:03

cardibach · 03/04/2025 11:52

That’s not what he’s trying to do though. He couldn’t give less of a stuff about working class people (or anyone but himself and his cronies). If you can’t see that looking at his past history…

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I think there will be lots of unexpected consequences. it could go either way.

I find it quite exciting. Life has been getting harder for working people across the west for decades as western industries have fled east to China. Working people just have poor quality NMW jobs nowadays. This is Trump’s clumsy way of bringing some of it back.
Saw a British watch maker on tv yesterday saying they’ll have to open a factory in the USA to keep their market there… exactly what trump wants. He wants the USA to be an industrial powerhouse again with good jobs for working people. I don’t blame him. Need the same here.

But why is everyone bitching at US tariffs when you never heard a peep about all the tariffs other countries have raised on the US? The EU with 39% tariffs for example, why was no one crying about those?

Why after Brexit was no one crying about EU tariffs on uk products? All of a sudden everyone is anti tariff despite them being around for centuries.

I hope to see western industry booming… time will tell. I want the jobs back from China, give working people a decent leg up.

Igotjelly · 03/04/2025 17:04

Zebedee999 · 03/04/2025 17:01

Nobody else is trying to create jobs for the working class. For decades politicians across the west have seen working class living standards plummet.
Trump is trying something different to reverse that. It may be successful. It may be a disaster. But keep doing the same thing and nothing will change. Trump is being bold… or reckless… but at least he’s trying something different. Hope it works out for them.

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Trump is being an idiot. Those same working class people he claims to be helping are the very people who won’t be able to put food on their tables or a roof over their family’s heads because the cost of living is going to sky rocket. And that’s if their children don’t die of perfectly preventable childhood illnesses because of a lack of affordable healthcare.

Trump is fucking the very poorest in American society and hiding behind the pretence of helping them.

MushMonster · 03/04/2025 17:05

Ilikewinter · 02/04/2025 22:01

I'm just getting the sky news updates but I did notice that Russia isn't on his tarrif chart. Is that because they are now best buddies?????

I am not surprised, but very disappointed!
I was looking for that one actually.
I have just come out of work to red headlines about tariffs, tariffs, tariffs...
I have mot read them properly yet...

Igotjelly · 03/04/2025 17:07

Zebedee999 · 03/04/2025 17:03

I think there will be lots of unexpected consequences. it could go either way.

I find it quite exciting. Life has been getting harder for working people across the west for decades as western industries have fled east to China. Working people just have poor quality NMW jobs nowadays. This is Trump’s clumsy way of bringing some of it back.
Saw a British watch maker on tv yesterday saying they’ll have to open a factory in the USA to keep their market there… exactly what trump wants. He wants the USA to be an industrial powerhouse again with good jobs for working people. I don’t blame him. Need the same here.

But why is everyone bitching at US tariffs when you never heard a peep about all the tariffs other countries have raised on the US? The EU with 39% tariffs for example, why was no one crying about those?

Why after Brexit was no one crying about EU tariffs on uk products? All of a sudden everyone is anti tariff despite them being around for centuries.

I hope to see western industry booming… time will tell. I want the jobs back from China, give working people a decent leg up.

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If you’re excited by this then you haven’t been paying attention.

Zebedee999 · 03/04/2025 17:07

cardibach · 03/04/2025 11:50

No, the way to help the working class is to stop the flow of wealth from them (and the middle class) to the super rich. No manufacturing will relocate because it costs millions (at best) and Trump may change his mind next week.

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Not so. A uk watchmaker was on tv yesterday saying to retain their USA market they will need to create a factory over there. … exactly what Trump wants. Jobs for the American working class.

Whether it will work as he hopes only time will tell. I hope it does.

MushMonster · 03/04/2025 17:11

Cornettoninja · 03/04/2025 12:14

I won’t pretend to understand it but doesn’t China hold a lot of USD currency? My wobbly understanding of it is they could sink the dollar if they chose to.

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That I have heard too, indeed.
And an expert saying that Trump wants to put the dollar down, purposely, to reduce manufacturing costs. They, obviously, still want to be an economic superpower, so they have invested in other areas, where the drop in the dollar will not affect, like cybercurrency of some sort.
Clever financiers only need to watch where they (Trump amd Co) are putting their actual assets and follow, or bid against the dollar or whatever assets they are taking from. They will all fill their pockets, while the honest working citizens cannot afford eggs for a while.
Part of me wishes I knew how to play the markets game....

Zebedee999 · 03/04/2025 17:11

Alexandra2001 · 03/04/2025 11:36

How will US workers buy these now, far more expensive goods? as they wont be able too, there will be no huge amount of tariffs collected.

An example....Taiwan is the worlds number producer of hi end chipsets, used in cars, phones PC's planes etc etc.. it took them decades to be able to produce these, the US will not be able to build the factories, up skill the workforces or get the machinery in any meaningful time scale to meet demand.

The US can pay better wages right now for jobs that replaced the factories etc, but people like Trump Musk etc decided them becoming billionaires is more important.

Look at what Trump has done throughout his life.. not what he says...

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A TSMC plant is being built in the US right now with plans for more. The US used to be the primary manufacturer of chips but they’re bringing a chunk of it back to benefit all Americans. It’s an example of precisely what Trump is trying to do.
good luck to him if he can bring good quality jobs to the American working classes, so many here on MN hoping he fails. Got to keep the poor poor right?

Zebedee999 · 03/04/2025 17:14

cestlaviecherie · 03/04/2025 11:22

Yes you are shafting 100% of the US population with higher prices now in order to improve jobs for 10% of the US population in 10 years' time.

And when you are messing with tariffs like this internationally it hits the poorest countries hardest and causes social upheaval so all you're going to see from that is an influx of illegal immigration, especially to the US, which is the opposite of what he's trying to achieve.

Not to mention they have to import a lot to manufacture a lot of things because it literally doesn't exist in the quantities they need.

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Why is everyone bitching at US tariffs when you never heard a peep about all the tariffs other countries have raised on the US? The EU with 39% tariffs for example, why was no one crying about those?

I hope to see western industry booming… time will tell. I want the jobs back from China, give working people a decent leg up.

cardibach · 03/04/2025 17:16

Zebedee999 · 03/04/2025 17:01

Nobody else is trying to create jobs for the working class. For decades politicians across the west have seen working class living standards plummet.
Trump is trying something different to reverse that. It may be successful. It may be a disaster. But keep doing the same thing and nothing will change. Trump is being bold… or reckless… but at least he’s trying something different. Hope it works out for them.

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He isn’t trying to create jobs for the working class either. It’s all (obvious) nonsense. As I said earlier, the problem is the way wealth is flowing from working and middle class people to the super rich (ie Trump and his mates). He’s part of the problem, not the solution.

Alexandra2001 · 03/04/2025 17:18

Zebedee999 · 03/04/2025 17:03

I think there will be lots of unexpected consequences. it could go either way.

I find it quite exciting. Life has been getting harder for working people across the west for decades as western industries have fled east to China. Working people just have poor quality NMW jobs nowadays. This is Trump’s clumsy way of bringing some of it back.
Saw a British watch maker on tv yesterday saying they’ll have to open a factory in the USA to keep their market there… exactly what trump wants. He wants the USA to be an industrial powerhouse again with good jobs for working people. I don’t blame him. Need the same here.

But why is everyone bitching at US tariffs when you never heard a peep about all the tariffs other countries have raised on the US? The EU with 39% tariffs for example, why was no one crying about those?

Why after Brexit was no one crying about EU tariffs on uk products? All of a sudden everyone is anti tariff despite them being around for centuries.

I hope to see western industry booming… time will tell. I want the jobs back from China, give working people a decent leg up.

Show quote history

So where is this UK watch maker going to get skilled people to run his watch making business in the US ? or the equipment? & why would he do this, when the US consumer is going to have no money to buy expensive watches as inflation & unemployment rises....

US is 13% of world trade, there is another 87% to trade with.

The EU never put tariffs on UK goods, thats a blatant lie, the EU/UK trade deal saw to that.

Tariffs on US goods came about mainly because of Trumps first term & disputes over Boeing/Airbus.

You should really be asking why the US Europe etc have so many billionaires, whilst at the same time, wages have fallen in real terms... led of course by the billionaire backers of Trump...

cardibach · 03/04/2025 17:19

Zebedee999 · 03/04/2025 17:07

Not so. A uk watchmaker was on tv yesterday saying to retain their USA market they will need to create a factory over there. … exactly what Trump wants. Jobs for the American working class.

Whether it will work as he hopes only time will tell. I hope it does.

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It won’t, for reasons already explained on this thread. I hope it does too otherwise the American working class is totally screwed and despite the fac5 that many of them voted for him I don’t want that to happen to anyone. It won’t though. Obviously. Do you think only Trump is clever enough to work this out? Or could it be lots of clever people have understood that it’s stupid so haven’t done it?

Igotjelly · 03/04/2025 17:21

It’s not bitching about tariffs, it’s bitching about the car crash that is Donald Trump’s administration and his faux concern for real people. He‘s an absolute charlatan who is preying on people’s lack of understanding about trade and economics, as evidenced on this thread by some…

dubsie · 03/04/2025 17:34

soundsys · 02/04/2025 21:36

WTF is happening? It’s like some bizarre performance art piece.

He’s holding up signs and shouting and throwing out hats it’s just 🤯

It's time to start consolidated action against trumps regime. We can't simply accept 10% tarriffs on our goods without adding the same to American imports.

This idea we should accept rotten American chicken or else we get tarriffs. There is a reason it's chlorinated and that's because it's processed in less hygienic conditions.

Justsaynonow · 03/04/2025 17:52

Catsandcheese · 03/04/2025 08:02

Total arbitrary nonsense.
@Justsaynonow I read that also.
He just wants the trade deficit to disappear.
I read another tweet explaining that this will cost ordinary American families $3,500 per year.
They will be the real losers in all this.

The latest I read was now $5000 😮

Slimbear · 03/04/2025 17:56

Consolidated action against Trumps regime??

and they decide to limit access to various apps on Apple phones? Apple Pay? Limit used of the cloud on Google? Stop doing updates for Microsoft products?

what we should be doing is cancelling our Netflix accounts, closing fb accounts ,buying Samsung phones - but v few will care enough to deprive themselves of these.

RaindropsonNoses · 03/04/2025 17:57

Zebedee999 · 03/04/2025 17:01

Nobody else is trying to create jobs for the working class. For decades politicians across the west have seen working class living standards plummet.
Trump is trying something different to reverse that. It may be successful. It may be a disaster. But keep doing the same thing and nothing will change. Trump is being bold… or reckless… but at least he’s trying something different. Hope it works out for them.

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Any new factories will probably be automated with AI and robots so not many jobs created there

GCAcademic · 03/04/2025 17:59

RaindropsonNoses · 03/04/2025 17:57

Any new factories will probably be automated with AI and robots so not many jobs created there

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Yep. But the tech bros will do very nicely out of it.

US voters have been had.

RaindropsonNoses · 03/04/2025 17:59

Slimbear · 03/04/2025 17:56

Consolidated action against Trumps regime??

and they decide to limit access to various apps on Apple phones? Apple Pay? Limit used of the cloud on Google? Stop doing updates for Microsoft products?

what we should be doing is cancelling our Netflix accounts, closing fb accounts ,buying Samsung phones - but v few will care enough to deprive themselves of these.

Many people have 20 years of memories and posts on Facebook so probably wouldn't like to close their account.

samarrange · 03/04/2025 18:00

Zebedee999 · 03/04/2025 17:03

I think there will be lots of unexpected consequences. it could go either way.

I find it quite exciting. Life has been getting harder for working people across the west for decades as western industries have fled east to China. Working people just have poor quality NMW jobs nowadays. This is Trump’s clumsy way of bringing some of it back.
Saw a British watch maker on tv yesterday saying they’ll have to open a factory in the USA to keep their market there… exactly what trump wants. He wants the USA to be an industrial powerhouse again with good jobs for working people. I don’t blame him. Need the same here.

But why is everyone bitching at US tariffs when you never heard a peep about all the tariffs other countries have raised on the US? The EU with 39% tariffs for example, why was no one crying about those?

Why after Brexit was no one crying about EU tariffs on uk products? All of a sudden everyone is anti tariff despite them being around for centuries.

I hope to see western industry booming… time will tell. I want the jobs back from China, give working people a decent leg up.

Show quote history

Why after Brexit was no one crying about EU tariffs on uk products?

Because they don't exist. As you very well know.

Igotjelly · 03/04/2025 18:02

samarrange · 03/04/2025 18:00

Why after Brexit was no one crying about EU tariffs on uk products?

Because they don't exist. As you very well know.

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I’m not convinced they do know or understand trade and tariffs.