Any American Mumsnetters around?

[Wildflowers99]

To have a respectful discussion about Trump. Did you expect him to act in the way he has? Are you happy with it? What’s the mood towards him over there?

I’m completely speechless at his ambush of Zelenskyy tonight and just trying to understand how this has come about, and whether he has support to continue acting in this way. He was obviously chosen to be President by the public but I assume they would never have guessed how the last few weeks would have gone.

There are some interesting studies about how Americans from conservative areas re aware of their dependence on the government and deeply resent it. They prefer the GOP lies that they'll all be able to be independent to the Democrats saying it's ok to be on benefits, even when they're supplementary to working. They feel like failures.

others explicitly say that maintaining the hierarchy is what's important to them. They would do without health care as long as it means keeping poorer people from getting it free.

The response of the non Trump voting American part of our family. (The rest are British). Is to post on Facebook that they are coming off social media. Surely they should be fighting this? Protesting? Voicing their anger?

Not mutually exclusive! However people have moved off some social media sites (not just X but anything Meta). Zuckerberg saw which way the wind was blowing and has gone blowhard and "anti woke". The situation with the tech moguls is probably too long for me to explain coherently, entire books have been written about it.

@countingthedays945 It's so hard, though. If I read the news all day every day, I will end up with a cerebral hemorrhage. I told DS the day after the election to not waste the next four years doomscrolling. We have to give to charities as best we can, look to the next election in two years for Congress and other positive actions.

...
The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe--the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.

We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americansborn in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritageand unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

This much we pledge--and more.
...

Who said this and when?

You have a point but European nations also value integrity. The US committed, along with the UK and France to defending Ukraine should Russia ever attack it. It was not to be expected to give anything at the time of the attack. However, it had to give up its best chance to defend itself for this guarantee. It had the 3rd biggest nuclear arsenal in the world - you really think Russia would have attacked if it still had that? The US, just like the UK and France, has a duty to defend Ukraine fully.

JFK in 1961

Thank you.

I'll read it again, later. It's tipped me over the edge and I'm crying about it. It's tea-time in England and I'm going to put the car away. I might have to give up Mumsnet for Lent.

I am American and I am horrified and embarrassed. I am not surprised at all by what he’s doing. Anyone paying attention during the election knew he would be this bad. The people who voted for him lack critical thinking skills and get their news from unreliable sources. I don’t know many people who did. I have a few acquaintances who may have voted for him but they keep quiet about it. And they are not thoughtful people. And one is an overt racist.

Yes I really should be cooking dinner too!

JFK is one reason why I loved science - being nerdily interested in space exploration. One of the more eloquent (well, Ted Sorenson was 😀) POTUS there has been.

That we have come so far to go so low is heartbreaking.

The bit that really sticks for me:

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

I live in Canada, and I have relatives just across the border in Michigan. The Michigan people are mostly appalled by Trump.

One weakness of the American system of fixed elections is that they are stuck with him for 4 years (and that's assuming he doesn't fiddle some way to have a 3rd term)

I say this is pretty definitive:

The Kremlin said on Sunday that the dramatic pivot in the foreign policy of the US “largely” coincides with its own vision, with Donald Trump described as having “common sense”

They'll start building a Death Star soon, designed by Musk.

I'm American - but how can any decent person be respectful of Trump?

Decent people didn't even respect him before he became president.

Well, join the club. No rational person could have guessed this would turn out worse any anyone imagined.

Decent Americans are embarrassed and ashamed.

I really do feel for all the Americans who did not vote for Trump.

I read about Ukraine giving up its nuclear capabilities in return for security/protection. Apparently a deal only lasts as long as it suits.

When watching Trump and Vance act like bullies in the Oval Office I got a glimpse that Vance is probably worse than Trump. I wouldn't have thought it possible. I felt dread.

This is obviously what the MAGA lot wanted - a dictator unfettered by morality and ethics.

Trump had some sort of spat with Zelensky over Hunter Biden and Trumps impeachment -I don’t understand it, this is why he hates him. But you’d think Trump would be more subtle.
One problem is the Biden/Hartis debacle -where is a good Democrat leader?
Im sure all the woke crap turned people to Republic voting too. Telling people how they must think is not a good idea.

“Im sure all the woke crap turned people to Republic voting too. Telling people how they must think is not a good idea.”

@Slimbear Could you define woke for me please?

Trans women in women’s sport for example. So unfair.

Starmer knew exactly what he was doing in that moment. The British people knew exactly what he was doing in that moment. That's diplomacy, airing your dirty laundry in public is not and never has been the way forward.

"Woke" has become useless. It had a specific meaning in Black American culture and it got turned into "everything leftist I don't like." Just like DEI and CRT got warped.

Trump is a bully. He doesn't know how to handle British politeness. Trump won't get the subtlety of someone pretending to bow and scrape while actually showing him up.

the problem with the Democratic Party is really that there's two packages of skills and they're being conflated. Party congressional leaders aren't really chosen for their messaging skills; their job is to keep their caucus in line, master procedure and negotiate. Nancy Pelosi is one of the greatest Speakers of the House ever, but she was grim on television. She was a genius at party organisation and discipline. She ne never brought a bill to the floor without making sure she had every vote lined up. There are quite a few Democrats who have good messaging skills. What the party needs to do is create a position for coordinating that. Also they need to stop texting me for money.

You’ve given an example.

Can you define the word. I’d like to know what you mean -a broader definition.

It can’t only be trans women in men’s sport and spaces. Many people on the left also don’t agree with it.

That's an example

Not a definition

“Woke" has become useless. It had a specific meaning in Black American culture and it got turned into "everything leftist I don't like." Just like DEI and CRT got warped.

@knitnerd90 Thank you. I agree. An earlier version of warping meaning was Politically Correct.

How someone comes over on tv changed politics starting with JFK.

Yes I too get the impression Vance is worse.

PP was right about the lack of finesse. He doesn’t seem to understand much beyond ‘we are the richest and most powerful country in the world’. Yes, but that is in part due to the soft power and diplomatic relations the US has had with the West (and a lot of the rest of the world). If you remove the soft power and turn everyone into a rival/enemy, and have an isolationist outlook, the States will lose all credibility and influence.

He seems to think it’s high time the States stopped letting other countries ‘take the piss’ but we haven’t - quite simply the States has given more money because it has more money. The UK is a generous donator of foreign aid, for example we donated £25 million to Turkey for the earthquake clean up. Am I going to have a hissy fit that Latvia (for example) didn’t donate as much? Well no, because we are a richer country. This doesn’t mean Latvia is taking the piss out of the UK.

It’s also wildly untrue that ‘nobody backs the States’. The UK followed the States into the Iraq war to basically avenge 9/11, we spent billions over 20 years supporting that ‘project’ plus hundreds of military lives and an increased threat of terror that has killed God knows how many British members of the public since then. It transpired there were no weapons of mass destruction - no risk to us from that angle at all. Britain has marked its card in the Middle East through supporting GWB in his ‘war on terror’.

Sorry to rant, and it’s absolutely not the fault of American citizens, but it’s all so frustrating. Now we are left as a much smaller country having to lead the charge against Putin, who the States hasn’t only stopped opposing but actively seems to be getting into bed with. It’s gutting, to say the least.

Right I had better get to work and take some deep breaths!