Any American Mumsnetters around?

[Wildflowers99]

To have a respectful discussion about Trump. Did you expect him to act in the way he has? Are you happy with it? What’s the mood towards him over there?

I’m completely speechless at his ambush of Zelenskyy tonight and just trying to understand how this has come about, and whether he has support to continue acting in this way. He was obviously chosen to be President by the public but I assume they would never have guessed how the last few weeks would have gone.

I’m aware, and I appreciate it. I really do. It’s not that I feel Trump ‘doesn’t have a leg to stand on’, I understand and appreciate everything he said to a degree.

The USA is the richest country in the world, and also a liberal democracy. This inherently means spending more when it comes to foreign policy as there are a LOT of countries who inherently disagree with your way of life (Islamic countries, Russia, China). You can’t have the great power you want without great responsibility - hence the UK (smaller) not having the clout you do which you wielded in the Oval Office last night. One cannot exist without the other, it’s a symbiosis. You can’t be the biggest/richest country yet stay out of all matters that don’t concern you, unless you want the rest of the world eaten up by dictators and to eventually allow them to become bigger and richer (and whose assistance will you call on then?). It isn’t a threat, it’s the nature of being vulnerable - it’s just as a European country we understand that far better.

The US is bankrupt as are we.

Do you have any idea how much debt the US has?

Yeah let's go with we only help you if we get something out of it - war profiteering as its known.

What amazes me is the fact America has been anti Russia for decades. They’ve always been the bad guy, even in rocky.
yet some are happy to swallow the lies trumps told about who started it.
suddenly Russia is the good guy.

He treats it as a business deal. Picking sides on who will give the best (immediate) return to the USA tax payer.

only it’s not quite like that when your the leader of a country is it

A few questions for you.

Why was NATO formed? Why does Trump now resent the defence spending that being part of NATO entails? What has changed? Is it simply that Trump wants to cut the USA's contributions so that he can use that money to look after the ordinary people of the USA better?

I'd really like to hear your views.

It's very interesting. Reds under the bed and the 'commie' threat has been a big part of American culture for decades. All Trump did, when he wasn't calling her names, was call Harris a 'commie'.

Now Trump and Putin are mutually masturbating. We all know that Putin isn't a commie but I doubt Trump voters know that.

this is what I just can’t get my head around. How did it flip?

Some people simply believe everything they're told and haven't learnt critical thinking. This is compounded by the ownership of the media by a handful of rich men with an agenda.

I've been watching it happen since Brexit. People were told to distrust whatever they were told by politicians, experts and mainstream media.

They were told that words no longer meant what they used to.

There's now an information vacuum which can be filled with whatever these powerful men want: money and more power.

People like Trump and Putin want to control the world and its resources. Putin hates the West and wants to destroy it, he wants to build an empire. Other dictators and the far right are rubbing their hands.

🤔

I completely see that and understand that one
im just amazed at how quickly with essentially one statement the generational almost cultural, dislike and distrust of Russia has been swept away.

I don't understand why you're surprised. People have been primed for this for many years.

Look at the way they repeat everything Trump says and believe everything he says even though he's a proven liar.

Repeating Russian propaganda is a prime example. Americans are actually parroting Putin: Zelensky is a dictator, he's corrupt, he owes them money, he started the war...These are all lies from Russian media.

Because the USA haven’t benefitted? They like to throw their weight around and have a seat at pretty much every international table if they want it.

A large part of their current downfall is to do with reputation. Without that they’re basically Russia with Disneyland and Mountain Dew.

I'd mean this to be derogatory but the uneducated and ignorant seem to make up a huge swath of America and the vast majority of trump supporters. How did that happen???

@BettyBardMacDonald The US is so huge, almost like many different countries, each with a separate state government but under the umbrella of the federal government.

Red trump supporting states are run by conservative state governments which are anti abortion, push religion, very pro gun, and will vote for the conservative presidential candidate every time. They are also often poor states (except Texas and Florida) with minimal educational opportunities for their population.

They often have high teenage pregnancy rates, high unemployment, bad medical care, etc. People are desperate and want change, or at least someone to blame for their poverty, and when a loud-mouthed populist comes along and tells them ‘liberals’ or minorities or illegals or women are to blame, they want to believe it and direct their hatred toward those groups.

Then you have marginalized groups who struggle to feed their families, have to work several jobs, are one paycheck away from homelessness, have no medical insurance, no - or minimal - benefits and therefore no time nor inclination to inform themselves re. politics. Many of them don’t even vote.

It used to be that people just accepted election outcomes with an eye to 4 years later when a new president could be elected. But trump and his supporters put an end to that with the January 6 Insurrection.

Now, no one trusts anything. Some people believe musk manipulated voting machines to steal the election for trump. Others believe trump should stay in office for life. It has become very unpleasant and extreme, and I don’t think anyone has any idea as to how it will play out.

But we now know that trump and his party are determined to do as much damage as possible, and no one seems to know how to stop them.

I grew up there though I am English. I have friends who live in DC and family on the East coast. They think he's awful and are totally embarrassed by him. My friend is a federal employee and is relieved she is retiring this year.
In fact I don't know anyone who voted for him or thought he could even possibly get in the first time round, let alone again. But putting a black female as his opponent and he was going to get it.
Biden wasn't good either.

I'm a dual citizen and I am so angry and sad. The plans were all open (Project 2025 etc). But Trump lied like a rug and said he had nothing to do with it. We knew from his first term that he was pro-Russia. But I've met people here who believe the West actually started the war. The right wing propaganda machine is incredible, and Silicon Valley is bought into it.

@knitnerd90 I am in California, in a particularly blue bubble, thank goodness. I have not heard that but I would challenge it every time. It's the worst kind of disinformation.

My immediate area is also a blue bubble (Montgomery County, MD -- so my neighbours are losing their jobs). But I have a friend whose hobby is keeping tabs on right wing nut jobbery and he shares some of it.

Sorry for your friends. I have cousins near you who are in the same boat. It's so distressing. These fucking people are trying to ruin my country.

There's a few US posters who voted for Trump. When they post they get loads of abuse and bot accusations

So yeh agree there might not be many

It must be very distressing for non-MAGA Americans. It was hard for me to watch as a bystander, it must have been horrific for you.

@Wildflowers99 it’s frightening and demoralizing to have to realize many americans actually want what is happening, and approve of it.

Like @SerendipityJane posted, they have no problem with a dictator as long as that dictator goes after the people they hate, abolishes abortion, forces religion on everyone, etc. it is scary for liberals and even for conservatives, as many in the conservative party oppose him.

But most only do so quietly because some of his supporters have threatened the lives of those who oppose him.

What is also distressing is knowing that many of the uneducated people who voted him in are the very ones most affected by his actions. Poor, rural communities in red states get the most public assistance; farm subsidies; substandard education, etc. We are watching them slowly wake up to the reality of what they celebrated.

The cuts are not yet affecting those of us who do not depend on the government for daily needs, although the environmental and political horrors are palpable for us all. What will happen when people see the threatened tariffs hit I don't know.

The most frustrating thing is when reporters talk to these people, they say they didn't vote for this. It's partly true in that Trump says one thing and does another. But it's also massive disinformation on all fronts. Some of them did know but wanted it to happen to other people, like the Trump voter who lost her federal job this week and got interviewed in the WaPo.

some wanted to blame immigrants. Some got caught up in the idea of Democrats being elitists and owning the libs. We also have the manosphere element and how Trump appealed so baldly to misogynists. This is part of why some of the tech people are into it; they really believe white men are the most injured class. (This is why I get into fights about how Trump isn't "good for women" just because he's anti trans.)

The other problem is that this shift to the right is an international phenomenon. No one is safe. The US, for certain structural reasons, was easier to take over.